Comments on Future Craftsman

[396foxRN]

The two Sears stores we had left in Louisville are now closed. I just had a garage built and am in the process of collecting, cleaning, and organizing the tools I have collected over the past 30 years, most all of which was Craftsman. I loved the price, the warranty, and the devotion to keeping it all USA made. So, after going through all the old tools, I had 5 ratchets, a screwdriver, a universal and an extension that I tried to take back to Lowes today to see what would happen. The customer service lady pointed behind me to a poster that said, basically, to call craftsman to arrange replacement items......no more walking in to a store, handing them your damaged item, and walking back out with a new one. Most of, obviously were using a tool when it broke, and if it broke it meant that your task didnt get completed. It was just a minor inconvenience to drive to sears, then walk out with a new one. Now, you're minus that tool you need, while mid-incompleted task, while waiting on some internet haggle.
Then, out of curiosity, I walked back to the tool section. Pathetic offering of tool selection for their new Cman rollout, very limited. Didnt even see individual replacements available for the extension, the universal, or the screwdriver. The ratchets, obviously, can be bought individually.....But when I turned it over and looked it was CHINA ****. Every item I picked up under their Cman name was China or Taiwan.
When you lose the loyalty of people who buy your name and built your reputation based on US production and jobs AND make it a haggle to replace a "lifetime" warranty item where it used to be a quick no-questions asked task.....You've guaranteed that I no longer will buy from you. What it comes down to is that you now have NO edge on your competitors anymore. Cman is imported asian junk, so are most other brands. Cman is 'guaranteed forever' but so are your competitors, but they arent making it a hassle to return something to actually make you back up your warranty claim. Those two facts considering, you now have no incentive to buy a craftsman out of loyalty to the brand name anymore, as the other offerings are the same 'quality', the same/similar country of origin, lesser priced, and easier to warranty.


Used to be, if I needed a tool or set of tools, I went right to sears and bought it, or ordered it. I didnt look around at the competition......cheaper brands were limited in offerings (smaller or incomplete sets) and imported, and more expensive items were just overpriced tool-snob items from the tool trucks who did actually warrant their stuff, but you had to track them down if you needed the replacement today, while nearly putting a lien on your firstborn to pay for it. Craftsman was the best of both worlds.....Great (but not excellent) tools, at competitive prices, with ease of warranty claims


So, count me out on even looking at the Craftsman lineup again. Nearly all my Cman tool setup, and it is pretty vast and complete, are older USA made items. Here and there I am missing a socket, so I have just been going to ebay and buying used old USA-made replacements to fill out my set.


As far as companies now that get my business, I like the offerings from Sunex, Gearwrench, and a few from Great Neck. It's primarily these brands because I like the 'kit' offerings they have, such as gearwrench's complete SAE and metric socket/ratchet/extension/universal kits all in one molded carry case. Or the super-handy Great Neck blowmold case with deep and short sockets 1/2" down and 13mm down, plus universal, extension, and ratchet in all 1/4" drive - I use the s*&$ out of that set it is so handy. And I downright love the Sunex 1/2" drive impact set of all metrics and all SAE sockets in one blowmold carry case. Complete SETS like these companies are offering are where my interest goes now; I despise sets that skip the 8, 11, 16mm sizes because those sizes correspond to SAE sizes


If most of my tool offerings are now coming out of asia, I am going to look at it a different way. Price, quality, customer relations and warranty ease, complete and comprehensive set offerings, and a preference for tools out of Taiwan or Japan over China. I already expect that sometime down the road we'll be speaking Chinese here, I just choose to not fund their drive to get themselves there any faster.

I'll end my rant now.....

 

[Andres26tnt]

i don't understand, people are acting like if Sears was making USA tools for the past 10 years and just now made the switch to china/Taiwan. Sorry no offence but i will never take someone serious who rants about craftsman beeing made in china and the turns around to buy the same china/Taiwan tools from another brand. Almost all tool manufactures and companies buy and make the same tools, example Gearwrench is basically Craftsman.

 

[HolyGrail]

I don't know why everyone keeps putting Taiwan with the same standard as China. From what I have seen over the years, Taiwan's tool quality is much higher then China. Not as high as German or USA, but decent tools that I seen in the last 10 years. Its not even comparable to that **** in China.

Now if China's threat to invade Taiwan ever happens, be prepared for all those decent tools like Gear Wrench to go down in quality big time. If that ever happens were all going to feel that impact. Get you're good tools now while the getting's good.

 

[Jtels85]

i don't understand, people are acting like if Sears was making USA tools for the past 10 years and just now made the switch to china/Taiwan. Sorry no offence but i will never take someone serious who rants about craftsman beeing made in china and the turns around to buy the same china/Taiwan tools from another brand. Almost all tool manufactures and companies buy and make the same tools, example Gearwrench is basically Craftsman.

The ‘other brands’ manufacturing didn’t originate here and outsource later on. Those other brands didn’t build decades of reputation of being synonymous with made in the USA. The offshoring isn’t entirely Sears fault. The vast majority of the blame is Apex Tool Group.

I’m in the same boat he is. It pisses me off and I refuse to purchase foreign made Craftsman tools. I will buy other brands foreign made tools because unlike the current Craftsman, they make a decent product, manufacturing originated overseas to begin with and they never attempted to hide anything or pull the wool over my eyes. People felt duped and alienated by Craftsman when the switch happened and continued to feel that way for a long time.

While Gearwrench and Craftsman are mostly manufactured by Apex, they are not even close to being the same. Just about everything is different. That’s like comparing apples to oranges.

If Asian sourced tools are my only option, I’m going to give my money to the company who makes a better quality product, not the guy who f’d over my fellow American’s jobs, shifted production from the USA to China, tried to fool me and expects me to pay the same amount of money for that product. Hell no.

 

[Andres26tnt]

I don't know why everyone keeps putting Taiwan with the same standard as China. From what I have seen over the years, Taiwan's tool quality is much higher then China. Not as high as German or USA, but decent tools that I seen in the last 10 years. Its not even comparable to that **** in China.

Now if China's threat to invade Taiwan ever happens, be prepared for all those decent tools like Gear Wrench to go down in quality big time. If that ever happens were all going to feel that impact. Get you're good tools now while the getting's good.

i don't equate Taiwan with china, Taiwan's quality has practically reach USA standards in strength but fit and finish it has a long way to go.

 

[Andres26tnt]

The ‘other brands’ manufacturing didn’t originate here and outsource later on. Those other brands didn’t build decades of reputation of being synonymous with made in the USA. The offshoring isn’t entirely Sears fault. The vast majority of the blame is Apex Tool Group.

I’m in the same boat he is. It pisses me off and I refuse to purchase foreign made Craftsman tools. I will buy other brands foreign made tools because unlike the current Craftsman, they make a decent product, manufacturing originated overseas to begin with and they never attempted to hide anything or pull the wool over my eyes. People felt duped and alienated by Craftsman when the switch happened and continued to feel that way for a long time.

While Gearwrench and Craftsman are mostly manufactured by Apex, they are not even close to being the same. Just about everything is different. That’s like comparing apples to oranges.

If Asian sourced tools are my only option, I’m going to give my money to the company who makes a better quality product, not the guy who f’d over my fellow American’s jobs, shifted production from the USA to China, tried to fool me and expects me to pay the same amount of money for that product. Hell no.

all valid reasons, but to me its just to much complaining, I get it but its been years since the switch to china. current Craftsman does have an advantage over all the others, you can warranty tools in many location not just lowes and so far people have had stuff warranty at lowes with no issues. Sears craftsman has the same tools as geawrench by the way, almost nothing is different except for the exclusive 120xp gearwrench ratchets, you can even swap a lot of the internals to the polished ratchets. Craftsman does not owe anyone anything, i'm surprise they even kept the life time warranty.

i keep hearing that people are being "fooled" where? and when? does the packaging try and deceive people?, i mean it says Made in china/taiwan in the back right? Craftsman is still for the most part cheap, gearwrench is about the same price or more.

 

[zendriver]

I must be like The Amazing Kreskin (but slightly better looking), since I accurately predicted, that no matter what they did with the Craftsman brand, it would flounder and continue to be ****-on as not good enough, since the calendar cannot be rolled back to 1966.

It's not shocking that Lowes would rather sell new tools, than swap out - for free, armloads of old tools.

Big surprise over the rage that everything they sell is not made in USA, since it is simple to build a profitable tool manufacturing plant here and and find enough workers, to operate it.

I stopped at the Lowes in Marion (never been there before), for a dryer vent hose, saw something Cman (don't even remember what it was) on an isle end, which prompted me to take a look. entered the huge tool dept and it was still marked as Kobalt and nearly everything but Cman was easily visible, I didn't have the time to hunt, so I bailed.

The thrill is gone.

 

[Skeptic68W]

If most of my tool offerings are now coming out of asia, I am going to look at it a different way. Price, quality, customer relations and warranty ease, complete and comprehensive set offerings, and a preference for tools out of Taiwan or Japan over China. I already expect that sometime down the road we'll be speaking Chinese here, I just choose to not fund their drive to get themselves there any faster.

I'll end my rant now.....

If you are looking for quality, an accessible warranty (in store), middle of the road pricing, and are willing to accept Taiwan COO, then I suggest you look at Carlyle tools at Napa. If they don't have things on the shelf, they can usually get it same day, so while it may not be as easy as the sears exchange used to be, it's better than anyone else current (save Harbor Freight). I've yet to see a Carlyle product made in China. They've all been Taiwan, and are very high quality. I love every Carlyle tool I have so far, and find myself buying more all the time.

I’m in the same boat he is. It pisses me off and I refuse to purchase foreign made Craftsman tools. I will buy other brands foreign made tools because unlike the current Craftsman, they make a decent product, manufacturing originated overseas to begin with and they never attempted to hide anything or pull the wool over my eyes. People felt duped and alienated by Craftsman when the switch happened and continued to feel that way for a long time.

If Asian sourced tools are my only option, I’m going to give my money to the company who makes a better quality product, not the guy who f’d over my fellow American’s jobs, shifted production from the USA to China, tried to fool me and expects me to pay the same amount of money for that product. Hell no.

I agree here. I love my Carlyle tools that are made in Taiwan, and I'm not mad at Napa because Carlyle was never US to begin with. They're honest.

It's a matter of principle. Many of us are rightfully pissed that the single best, most reliable consumer accessible brand of tools got zombified by Sears and is continuing to be by SBD. The irritating thing is, that there are hundreds of thousands of people who make their disdain known for offshore Craftsman products, yet Sears and SBD refuse to pay any more than lip service to this.

The reason is simple, for every 1 person who will take a stand and not buy offshore Craftsman, there are 9 average joes who don't even know Sears doesn't own Craftsman and isn't aware anything has been offshored. They are just brand loyalist because they grew up with quality Craftsman tools like many of us did, so they fork over their money.

Craftsman does not owe anyone anything, i'm surprise they even kept the life time warranty.

i keep hearing that people are being "fooled" where? and when? does the packaging try and deceive people?, i mean it says Made in china/taiwan in the back right? Craftsman is still for the most part cheap, gearwrench is about the same price or more.

Yes, and none of us owe Craftsman our patronage either. If we want to play this game, they have their right to source however they want, and we have our right to say if they offshore we won't buy it.

You're kidding right? Go read tool reviews on Sears or Lowes websites. 8/10 reviews are 5 stars from people who haven't used the tool yet and are full of decades of marketing buzzwords. All people can talk about is "Craftsman quality" and "lifetime warranty". The majority of Craftsman tool buyers buy Craftsman tools because they have been told by someone they trust (father, grandfather, friend, etc) a hundred times while they were growing up that "Craftsman is the best, they stand behind their products 100%. You pay for a Craftsman tool and it's the last one you'll ever buy. If you break it, walk in, plop it on the counter, and they'll give you a new one."

That cultural belief is the ONLY reason Craftsman as a brand has value. It's the only reason SBD bought it. They bought it for THAT. The brand loyalty, and brand loyalty is nothing more than decades of TRUST built into the name that Sears and now SBD are using to sell cheap, crummy tools at a decent mark-up to people who don't know better.

Brand trust is important. Hell, my father still thinks Black and Decker is a great brand for crying out loud...He bought me a B&D drill when I was in high school thinking he was buying me something good. Biggest ************* on the planet.

 

[Andres26tnt]

I must be like The Amazing Kreskin (but slightly better looking), since I accurately predicted, that no matter what they did with the Craftsman brand, it would flounder and continue to be ****-on as not good enough, since the calendar cannot be rolled back to 1966.

It's not shocking that Lowes would rather sell new tools, than swap out - for free, armloads of old tools.

Big surprise over the rage that everything they sell is not made in USA, since it is simple to build a profitable tool manufacturing plant here and and find enough workers, to operate it.

I stopped at the Lowes in Marion (never been there before), for a dryer vent hose, saw something Cman (don't even remember what it was) on an isle end, which prompted me to take a look. entered the huge tool dept and it was still marked as Kobalt and nearly everything but Cman was easily visible, I didn't have the time to hunt, so I bailed.

The thrill is gone.

you're right no matter what Craftsman will always be **** unless they sell tool truck quality USA made tools at HF prices.

 

[HolyGrail]

The ‘other brands’ manufacturing didn’t originate here and outsource later on. Those other brands didn’t build decades of reputation of being synonymous with made in the USA. The offshoring isn’t entirely Sears fault. The vast majority of the blame is Apex Tool Group.

I’m in the same boat he is. It pisses me off and I refuse to purchase foreign made Craftsman tools. I will buy other brands foreign made tools because unlike the current Craftsman, they make a decent product, manufacturing originated overseas to begin with and they never attempted to hide anything or pull the wool over my eyes. People felt duped and alienated by Craftsman when the switch happened and continued to feel that way for a long time.

While Gearwrench and Craftsman are mostly manufactured by Apex, they are not even close to being the same. Just about everything is different. That’s like comparing apples to oranges.

If Asian sourced tools are my only option, I’m going to give my money to the company who makes a better quality product, not the guy who f’d over my fellow American’s jobs, shifted production from the USA to China, tried to fool me and expects me to pay the same amount of money for that product. Hell no.

My argument was the quality of the tool, and how others are comparing them to be the same quality of a China tool, not the politics of offshoring (Which I fully agree with you I might add) .

I remember reading this from somewhere. It wasn't Sears that chose to move production overseas, it was the manufacturer. Sears actually requested that U.S. made tools be kept available. The brothers who run Danaher, the manufacturer at the time, chose to shut down the American plants to save a buck. They later sold the tools division, named Ames manufacturing, to Bain Capital. Bain just closed the last two U.S. factories and fired the workers to ship production to China. So Sears may not be totally the one to blame for this. But I could be wrong.

 

[Magnum440d100]

I’m still buying Chinese craftsman at the moment.

I did buy their top box because it had the features I wanted. And seemed solid. Since I spent over $250, I got $25 for 10 weeks (in points).

I’ve been using the points to buy replacement sockets that have walked away over the years, wrenches, screwdrivers, etc.

Eventually the Chinese craftsman sockets, wrenches, screw drivers, will wind up in my extra or give away box.


My hope for the future of the company is that they do switch manufacturers to a manufacturer in the US. I think that will help keep the company afloat.

Reality of the future though.... SBD bought it for their reputation, they continue to sell offshore goods, most people are still jaded (some will still buy because of brand loyalty), and the company will still tank... just a bit slower than if Sears kept them.

Either way, the future is bleak....

 

[four.cycle]

I must be like The Amazing Kreskin (but slightly better looking), since I accurately predicted, that no matter what they did with the Craftsman brand, it would flounder and continue to be ****-on as not good enough, since the calendar cannot be rolled back to 1966.

Welcome to the 21st century, gentlemen.

Did anyone really have the expectation that SBD would start cranking out sockets and wrenches and pliers here in the US and stamping the Craftsman name on them?
Seriously?
Time for a reality check on that one.
SBD bought the Craftsman name, because as noted above, brand recognition is paramount in marketing.
Whether you like it or not, that is the reality, and the majority of US consumers not only don't know, but they don't care that the product is not US made. US consumers haven't cared whether products are made in the US for decades - they just want cheaper cheaper cheaper.

There are all kinds of options available if you are willing to pay for US made quality hand tools.

Whining about what SBD does with the Craftsman brand isn't going to change a goddam thing.

 

[four.cycle]

I must be like The Amazing Kreskin (but slightly better looking), since I accurately predicted, that no matter what they did with the Craftsman brand, it would flounder and continue to be ****-on as not good enough, since the calendar cannot be rolled back to 1966.

You left out the part about wanting to pay 1966 prices.

 

[Jtels85]

My argument was the quality of the tool, and how others are comparing them to be the same quality of a China tool, not the politics of offshoring (Which I fully agree with you I might add) .

I remember reading this from somewhere. It wasn't Sears that chose to move production overseas, it was the manufacturer. Sears actually requested that U.S. made tools be kept available. The brothers who run Danaher, the manufacturer at the time, chose to shut down the American plants to save a buck. They later sold the tools division, named Ames manufacturing, to Bain Capital. Bain just closed the last two U.S. factories and fired the workers to ship production to China. So Sears may not be totally the one to blame for this. But I could be wrong.

You are absolutely correct. I do not know all of the details, but that is the gist of it. Sears likely had their hands tied behind their back and had no choice but to go along with it. Those same plants made tools for Craftsman, NAPA, Masterforce, Armstrong, Allen, KD, etc... All of those brands have either been phased out or switched to overseas production.

Sears is however solely responsively for losing the Western Forge contract, forcing the last of the USA made screwdrivers, Pliers and adjustable wrenches to be phased out. Contract/payment issues were the blame, iirc.

 

[Andres26tnt]

I’m still buying Chinese craftsman at the moment.

I did buy their top box because it had the features I wanted. And seemed solid. Since I spent over $250, I got $25 for 10 weeks (in points).

I’ve been using the points to buy replacement sockets that have walked away over the years, wrenches, screwdrivers, etc.

Eventually the Chinese craftsman sockets, wrenches, screw drivers, will wind up in my extra or give away box.


My hope for the future of the company is that they do switch manufacturers to a manufacturer in the US. I think that will help keep the company afloat.

Reality of the future though.... SBD bought it for their reputation, they continue to sell offshore goods, most people are still jaded (some will still buy because of brand loyalty), and the company will still tank... just a bit slower than if Sears kept them.

Either way, the future is bleak....

this is a misconception Craftsman the brand under sears wasn't in trouble, it was sears best seller and hold a substantial portion of the market. As we all know Sears holdings was in trouble, loosing market share to other retailers and On-line retailers. Sears basically used Craftsman as their piggy bank and destroyed a large portion of the brand.

SBD needs time, unlike sears and craftsman they own most of the manufacturers they contract to make tools so they can't just go out an start making new contracts with old sears partners. Also Sears burn a lot of bridges specially WF, allowing other competitors to come in and scoop up the contracts.

 

[ChrisLS8]

The irritating thing is, that there are hundreds of thousands of people who make their disdain known for offshore Craftsman products, yet Sears and SBD refuse to pay any more than lip service to this.

Hundreds of thousands? You aren't serious are you? You have zero facts to back that claim up, what you really mean is the dozens and hundreds of randoms on a tool snob forum are complaining.

 

[Jtels85]

all valid reasons, but to me its just to much complaining, I get it but its been years since the switch to china. current Craftsman does have an advantage over all the others, you can warranty tools in many location not just lowes and so far people have had stuff warranty at lowes with no issues. Sears craftsman has the same tools as geawrench by the way, almost nothing is different except for the exclusive 120xp gearwrench ratchets, you can even swap a lot of the internals to the polished ratchets. Craftsman does not owe anyone anything, i'm surprise they even kept the life time warranty.

i keep hearing that people are being "fooled" where? and when? does the packaging try and deceive people?, i mean it says Made in china/taiwan in the back right? Craftsman is still for the most part cheap, gearwrench is about the same price or more.

The sockets are different, ratchets are different, wrenches are different, extensions different, breaker bars different, pliers different, screwdrivers different, hammers different, I mean.. they’re all different designs. I don’t know where you got the idea they’re the same?

The retail packaging and tags on the mechanics tools were colorful and had the American flag printed on them, proudly stating in bold lettering, “MADE IN USA”. There was a period around 2009-2011 where the packages were changed to the current red label we see today, but a little darker shade of red. You now had to look very closely to see those small, printed words on the package, “Made in USA”. The flag that was proudly displayed a year before was now gone. Once the China sourced Craftsman tools hit the shelves in 2011/12, that red label became a little brighter and that super small, “Made In USA” went away in favor of “Made In China”. Sears knew what was happening in regards to the offshoring and changed the packaging just before the country of origin changed. This was their was of ensuring a smooth transition, all while distracting people from realizing what was really going on. From a business prospective, that was smart on their end. So yeah, they fooled and deceived people.

I’m not the only one here who remembers this. Just go on eBay at look at the last of the USA made socket sets, wrench sets and ratchets and tell me that packaging doesn’t look similar to the current packaging today.

 

[M6erfan]

So yeah, they fooled and deceived people.

No. No they didn't... "Fooled"or "deceived" would be if they put forth Asian made products under Made in U.S.A labeling.

 

[Andres26tnt]

The sockets are different, ratchets are different, wrenches are different, extensions different, breaker bars different, pliers different, screwdrivers different, hammers different, I mean.. theyÂ’re all different designs. I donÂ’t know where you got the idea theyÂ’re the same?

The retail packaging and tags on the mechanics tools were colorful and had the American flag printed on them, proudly stating in bold lettering, “MADE IN USA”. There was a period around 2009-2011 where the packages were changed to the current red label we see today, but a little darker shade of red. You now had to look very closely to see those small, printed words on the package, “Made in USA”. The flag that was proudly displayed a year before was now gone. Once the China sourced Craftsman tools hit the shelves in 2011/12, that red label became a little brighter and that super small, “Made In USA” went away in favor of “Made In China”. Sears knew what was happening in regards to the offshoring and changed the packaging just before the country of origin changed. This was their was of ensuring a smooth transition, all while distracting people from realizing what was really going on. From a business prospective, that was smart on their end. So yeah, they fooled and deceived people.

IÂ’m not the only one here who remembers this. Just go on eBay at look at the last of the USA made socket sets, wrench sets and ratchets and tell me that packaging doesnÂ’t look similar to the current packaging today.

Just to clarify what i'm criticizing is that you complained about the **** Chinese craftman sells and then turn around and praised the same tools with a different name.
Apex group make the tools for sears craftman and other tool companies like gearwrench they just changes the exterior design or "look" of the tools to suit what ever brand that is buying, sometimes they don't change anything other then the brand stamping. currently sears craftsman shares countless tools with almost all the Apex brands, examples that come to mind are the ratcheting flex/non-flex wrenches, offset wrenches, line wrenches, all the internals of the ratchets and some sockets to name a few. I own all the ones i mention and they are the same down to the lobster claw they share with Gearwrench.
Nothing is unique with craftsman anyway they are Brand not a tool manufacturer so everything is contracted out. I guess you can say the look of the tools is unique to craftsman.

That's not fooling people they clearly state were its made and remove the us Flag from the package. It would be different if they still had the flag and "made in usa".

 

[Andres26tnt]

No. No they didn't... "Fooled"or "deceived" would be if they put forth Asian made products under Made in U.S.A labeling.

that what is said, where the heck are they being deceived?
the only fooling done is the fake review currently at lowes website, many don't understand that SBD doesn't own Lowes so what ever the retailer does is not their issue.

 

[Yankee]

Is it just me, but almost all the people that trash Craftsman for going overseas mention that they end up buying another Asian made brand. You would think they would move on to another US (Wright, Sk for example, Craftsman wasn’t the only US brand)

It’s proof that Made In USA for the vast majority isn’t as important as price. And Stanley knows that...

 

[57JoeFoMoPar]

Is it just me, but almost all the people that trash Craftsman for going overseas mention that they end up buying another Asian made brand. You would think they would move on to another US (Wright, Sk for example, Craftsman wasn’t the only US brand)

It’s proof that Made In USA for the vast majority isn’t as important as price. And Stanley knows that...

I think there is a lot of truth to that. But Craftsman used to be a quality, USA made tool that could be purchased at a reasonable price. The weekend warrior or home mechanic doesn't need truck brand equipment, and usually can't justify truck brand prices when our tools aren't making our paycheck. So losing that affordable USA make is unfortunate, since switching to Williams, SK, Proto, etc., will mean a higher price tag that many won't be willing to pay. I think that's especially the case with Harbor Freight recently upping their game and offering better quality tools, which are still 1/3 the price of new asian Craftsman.

 

[The Fall]

The decline of American manufacturing has been hard to take for those still in it, so cut folks on here some slack for being optimistic. Everyone also went to Sears. It was a far superior store to the big box options now available.

SBD stated they were bringing some Cman manufacturing back to America -- Sears prided themselves on it for DECADES even as neoliberalism/bad free-trade deals sucked industry out of the United States -- so consumers expecting/hoping for hand tools made in the USA again weren't being unreasonable. Even with SBD's outsourcing in the late 1990s under John Trani, the winds have been changing. People are fed up with losing their jobs while CEOs get record bonuses. Chalk it up to the financialization of the economy gnawing on the corpse of industrial capitalism.

That being said, SBD's Cman acquisition is proving to be completely lackluster and superfluous. Unlike their pre-2011 position in the market, the tools lack distinction -- are they DeWalt? Re-branded Stanley? What makes them noticeably better than Kobalt? You can't even service the ratchets -- beyond COO, it's hard to take them seriously. I'll also add that no one I know who uses tools regularly is just looking for the cheapest **** they can find. That narrative gets peddled around here a lot; outside of blankets and dolleys, HF tools are not allowed in the cabinet shop, and even novice tradesman/shade tree mechanics want something halfway decent. Every serious tradesman I know takes pride in his tools, values high-grade American/European/Japanese manufacturers, and my family's been in cabinetry since the late 1960s. Craftsman was a mark of distinction for hand tools (albeit they were pretty bottom end back in the day for power tools). That's no longer the case and no one really talks about CMan anymore. It's only on this forum that anyone really gives a damn at this point. Everyone else moved on to Klein, Channellock, Proto, etc. Most people haven't stepped inside a Sears in a decade. Their business model completely changed after Lampert's acquisition and his disinvestment/cannibalizing of their stores made them effectively moribund by the late '00s.

I wish Craftsman had died. I've got enough to last a lifetime and if I need a replacement socket, screwdriver, I'll just order from SK, Wright, etc. No big deal. I wish they remained in their old form to give the upstarts a break on hand tool costs. I know pros still using their sockets and for good reason: they worked. Just another sad loss for the American working class.

 

[Skeptic68W]

Hundreds of thousands? You aren't serious are you? You have zero facts to back that claim up, what you really mean is the dozens and hundreds of randoms on a tool snob forum are complaining.

There are millions of people who bought Craftsman tools, so if 1% of the customers were pissed about this, that would be over 100,000 people. Not difficult to imagine. Nearly every house in this country of over 300 million people has a Craftsman tool in it. Even if 1/10th of 1% of those people cared, it's a **** load.

I think there is a lot of truth to that. But Craftsman used to be a quality, USA made tool that could be purchased at a reasonable price. The weekend warrior or home mechanic doesn't need truck brand equipment, and usually can't justify truck brand prices when our tools aren't making our paycheck. So losing that affordable USA make is unfortunate, since switching to Williams, SK, Proto, etc., will mean a higher price tag that many won't be willing to pay. I think that's especially the case with Harbor Freight recently upping their game and offering better quality tools, which are still 1/3 the price of new asian Craftsman.

What this guy said.

At least HF is honest. They've always been about cheap tools. If something from there is ******, you're not surprised. That makes finding the gems seem fun, but many of us would like there to be a brand that's reliably good at a reasonable price. None of this "well X brand is good for wrenches but their ratchets are terrible and their pry bars will put your eye out" ****. That's for the birds.

Craftsman was that reliable brand. The default. The "I need it now and don't have time to shop around" brand.

That being said, SBD's Cman acquisition is proving to be completely lackluster and superfluous. Unlike their pre-2011 position in the market, the tools lack distinction -- are they DeWalt? Re-branded Stanley? What makes them noticeably better than Kobalt? You can't even service the ratchets -- beyond COO, it's hard to take them seriously. I'll also add that no one I know who uses tools regularly is just looking for the cheapest **** they can find. That narrative gets peddled around here a lot; outside of blankets and dolleys, HF tools are not allowed in the cabinet shop, and even novice tradesman/shade tree mechanics want something halfway decent. Every serious tradesman I know takes pride in his tools, values high-grade American/European/Japanese manufacturers, and my family's been in cabinetry since the late 1960s. Craftsman was a mark of distinction for hand tools (albeit they were pretty bottom end back in the day for power tools). That's no longer the case and no one really talks about CMan anymore. It's only on this forum that anyone really gives a damn at this point. Everyone else moved on to Klein, Channellock, Proto, etc. Most people haven't stepped inside a Sears in a decade. Their business model completely changed after Lampert's acquisition and his disinvestment/cannibalizing of their stores made them effectively moribund by the late '00s.

I wish Craftsman had died. I've got enough to last a lifetime and if I need a replacement socket, screwdriver, I'll just order from SK, Wright, etc. No big deal. I wish they remained in their old form to give the upstarts a break on hand tool costs. I know pros still using their sockets and for good reason: they worked. Just another sad loss for the American working class.

Couldn't have said it better.

Some people just can't understand what is it about Craftsman that has so many of us up in arms. It's because that brand occupied the perfect middle ground for a LOT of people.

If you were a pro, there were some Cman stuff that was good enough for you, and the warranty was fast and easy.

If you were a serious DIY'er, Cman was your bread and butter. Just cheap enough to be affordable, just good enough to be lifetime purchases and something worth having pride in.

If you were joe homeowner, you could get by with raised panel stuff and the lower end things they offered, which were still better than the offshore alternatives of the day, and again, easy warranty.

In addition, Sears had everything the average guy needed, on the shelf. Just walk in and buy it. Nearly every tool could be had with the Craftsman logo on it, which was a stamp of approval. You didn't buy a Craftsman tool and wonder if it was going to work when you got home like you still do with HF to this day.

Nowadays, Joe homeowner is served well by Harbor Freight, Husky, Kobalt, etc. No problemo.

The pros are still handled by the truck brands. No problemo.

It's the serious DIY'ers who got the shaft the most with the CMAN tanking. Those of us who can't justify paying truck prices for tools we don't use to make a living, but who get endlessly frustrated with the lemons we buy from amazon or harbor freight.

Look, if SK, Wright Tool, etc were readily available, and had fully expansive lines of tools, this would be a different discussion, but many of us find that in the middle of a project, we need a specific tool, and we need it now. I'm not trying to wait 3-5 days to have the damn thing shipped in. What if you break something mid project? That means the job might be on hold until you have the replacement in hand. With CMAN, the **** was in stock, go get it today. Now, harbor freight is the only store that you can reliably walk in and get warranty replacement same day. Ridiculous.

 

[sberry]

We really got some golden arms on here,,,,, just turn the bolt already.

 

[Skeptic68W]

No. No they didn't... "Fooled"or "deceived" would be if they put forth Asian made products under Made in U.S.A labeling.

You mean like when they did exactly that?

 

[BDT/NWMN]

What is Craftsman? It is the retail store name applied to goods Sears purchased from various manufacturers.

Were some of these manufacturers running a manure pit or a gold mine?? Some of each.

What did Stanley Black & Decker really buy??? A name.

Why???? For the Craftsman name brand recognition.

If not that; We missed one heck of a wild party.

 

[mudflap]

We really got some golden arms on here,,,,, just turn the bolt already.

........................................LOL.

 

[shanny19]

Now, harbor freight is the only store that you can reliably walk in and get warranty replacement same day. Ridiculous.

So, at my local NAPA, I can do exactly that across THREE price points.
Evercraft, Adequate, China.
Carlyle, Very Nice, Taiwan.
Proto, High End, USA.

The demise of Armstrong was actually a good thing for my small town, NAPA went from a special order Armstrong dealer to a stocking Proto dealer.

Cman aside, we have it better in the tool options arena than many make it out to be. As sberry points out, the nut has no clue which of those three NAPA choices i’m choosing to turn it with.

 

[Yankee]

We really got some golden arms on here,,,,, just turn the bolt already.

This opinion is refers that a wrench is a wrench.... not what the thread is about...

 

[mudflap]

So, at my local NAPA, I can do exactly that across THREE price points.
Evercraft, Adequate, China.
Carlyle, Very Nice, Taiwan.
Proto, High End, USA.

The demise of Armstrong was actually a good thing for my small town, NAPA went from a special order Armstrong dealer to a stocking Proto dealer.

Cman aside, we have it better in the tool options arena than many make it out to be. As sberry points out, the nut has no clue which of those three NAPA choices i’m choosing to turn it with.

If you can get there between 8am and 5pm.. and if they have it in stock..the Napa stores around me can order you a replacement no problem..but ist 50/50 chance on weather you will walk out with it..

 

[Skeptic68W]

So, at my local NAPA, I can do exactly that across THREE price points.
Evercraft, Adequate, China.
Carlyle, Very Nice, Taiwan.
Proto, High End, USA.

The demise of Armstrong was actually a good thing for my small town, NAPA went from a special order Armstrong dealer to a stocking Proto dealer.

Cman aside, we have it better in the tool options arena than many make it out to be. As sberry points out, the nut has no clue which of those three NAPA choices i’m choosing to turn it with.

Napa has become my go to place for tools as of late. I love my Carlyle stuff, and I think they are the best place in terms of warranty for DIY folks who don't have easy access to the trucks.

That being said, Napa isn't Sears. They're franchised and some stores carry lots of tools, others carry almost none. They can all usually get stuff pretty quick I'd think, so it's better than anywhere else I'm currently aware of(except HF), but it's still not what Sears was unfortunately. Sears was more well stocked on tools reliably across locations. Also, Sears carried a much more expansive line. Not going to be buying any router bits, or replacement strips for your belt sander from Napa.

 

[mudflap]

The two Sears stores we had left in Louisville are now closed. I just had a garage built and am in the process of collecting, cleaning, and organizing the tools I have collected over the past 30 years, most all of which was Craftsman. I loved the price, the warranty, and the devotion to keeping it all USA made. So, after going through all the old tools, I had 5 ratchets, a screwdriver, a universal and an extension that I tried to take back to Lowes today to see what would happen. The customer service lady pointed behind me to a poster that said, basically, to call craftsman to arrange replacement items......no more walking in to a store, handing them your damaged item, and walking back out with a new one. Most of, obviously were using a tool when it broke, and if it broke it meant that your task didnt get completed. It was just a minor inconvenience to drive to sears, then walk out with a new one. Now, you're minus that tool you need, while mid-incompleted task, while waiting on some internet haggle.
Then, out of curiosity, I walked back to the tool section. Pathetic offering of tool selection for their new Cman rollout, very limited. Didnt even see individual replacements available for the extension, the universal, or the screwdriver. The ratchets, obviously, can be bought individually.....But when I turned it over and looked it was CHINA ****. Every item I picked up under their Cman name was China or Taiwan.
When you lose the loyalty of people who buy your name and built your reputation based on US production and jobs AND make it a haggle to replace a "lifetime" warranty item where it used to be a quick no-questions asked task.....You've guaranteed that I no longer will buy from you. What it comes down to is that you now have NO edge on your competitors anymore. Cman is imported asian junk, so are most other brands. Cman is 'guaranteed forever' but so are your competitors, but they arent making it a hassle to return something to actually make you back up your warranty claim. Those two facts considering, you now have no incentive to buy a craftsman out of loyalty to the brand name anymore, as the other offerings are the same 'quality', the same/similar country of origin, lesser priced, and easier to warranty.


Used to be, if I needed a tool or set of tools, I went right to sears and bought it, or ordered it. I didnt look around at the competition......cheaper brands were limited in offerings (smaller or incomplete sets) and imported, and more expensive items were just overpriced tool-snob items from the tool trucks who did actually warrant their stuff, but you had to track them down if you needed the replacement today, while nearly putting a lien on your firstborn to pay for it. Craftsman was the best of both worlds.....Great (but not excellent) tools, at competitive prices, with ease of warranty claims


So, count me out on even looking at the Craftsman lineup again. Nearly all my Cman tool setup, and it is pretty vast and complete, are older USA made items. Here and there I am missing a socket, so I have just been going to ebay and buying used old USA-made replacements to fill out my set.


As far as companies now that get my business, I like the offerings from Sunex, Gearwrench, and a few from Great Neck. It's primarily these brands because I like the 'kit' offerings they have, such as gearwrench's complete SAE and metric socket/ratchet/extension/universal kits all in one molded carry case. Or the super-handy Great Neck blowmold case with deep and short sockets 1/2" down and 13mm down, plus universal, extension, and ratchet in all 1/4" drive - I use the s*&$ out of that set it is so handy. And I downright love the Sunex 1/2" drive impact set of all metrics and all SAE sockets in one blowmold carry case. Complete SETS like these companies are offering are where my interest goes now; I despise sets that skip the 8, 11, 16mm sizes because those sizes correspond to SAE sizes


If most of my tool offerings are now coming out of asia, I am going to look at it a different way. Price, quality, customer relations and warranty ease, complete and comprehensive set offerings, and a preference for tools out of Taiwan or Japan over China. I already expect that sometime down the road we'll be speaking Chinese here, I just choose to not fund their drive to get themselves there any faster.

I'll end my rant now.....

Yea..but but you posted your rant on here with a cinneez computer or smartphone... so dont mind funding their drive that way..? and we will be speaking spanish way before chineez..

 

[WittHay]

So we know Stanley B&D bought Craftsman a while back and now some of their hand tools and power tools are showing up at Lowes via B&D - got me to thinking about some questions but can mostly just speculate on specifics...

I'm assuming B&D now owns craftsman.com website and it's largely separate from sears.com.

Looking at craftsman.com I'm not seeing certain tools anymore (some still show on sears.com but local store pickup only if avail - no shipping). That would suggest that B&D has started to cull thru and drop certain items is my guess. (example would the Craftsman compression tester)

For a good while now many Craftsman electric power tools were made by Ryobi (among others). I'm assuming that going forward - that might change w/ B&D sourcing their own power tools within their channels (& I think Ryobi is avail directly from competitor HD). My guess is future Craftsman power tools will no longer be Ryobi or other - but rather B&D - just a guess.

Sears used to identify parts in their manuals and up to a point - you could buy individual parts for say Craftsman power tools. I've no idea if that would continue or not.

Craftsman isn't just tools - it's people. Sure they didn't make the tools themselves. But I have to believe there were knowledgeable people working for Sears' Craftsman division probably in Illinois who knew a lot about tools, supplier relations, quality control, failure rates, parts supply chain, could (re)write proper owners manuals, etc. I've no idea what's going on in this area but wonder how many (if any) staff came over to B&D to continue helping w/ the brand. B&D probably has good folks too capable of this but the breadth and variety of Craftsman branded tools is or was pretty big.

What's your $0.02?

I think a lot of Sears tool people seen the writing on the wall years ago and have left for better opportunity's elsewhere. Sears is still free to source, design and market the Sears Craftsman brand.

Stanley Black and Decker the largest tool company in the world just bought the Craftsman name. One of the reasons was to supply the Canadian market. Craftsman Canada and Craftsman USA has always been separate until now.

SBD Craftsman will do reasonably well up here. because no HF, not many online sellers, not much warranty problems because Canadian Tire has been the main tool seller for years. Available in numerous brick and mortar stores besides Lowes. There is no Sears Canada.

In the US its gong to be a big clusterf--k regarding SBD Craftsman mechanics tools. Competition from Tekton and HF. Confusion between Sears Craftsman and SBD Craftsman. Hundreds of guys taking their broken Danaher made Craftsman which should technically be warranted by GearWrench to a home improvement store and getting mad.

Its like USA or nothing, but I remember going down to a Sears outlet store a few years back and it seemed dust was collecting on the US made sockets and wrenches it had in stock. Store closed about 2 years ago.

SBD has thousands of tools in its lineup but they have to decide which ones to put the Craftsman brand on. The typical Lowes customer needs a tape measure and levels not high quality sockets.

 

[DerekV]

We really got some golden arms on here,,,,, just turn the bolt already.

[emoji23]

 

[396foxRN]

wow, such a heated debate here!

My issue, as stated above, is the relatively quiet transition from a boasted 75-ish year tradition of American made products to the current imported stuff. I first noted the transition 5-6 years ago, when I asked for a new combo wrench metric set for Christmas, to replace the incomplete set that I had lost multiples from. My mother in law gave it to me, and the second I opened the box, I noticed something different....the lighter tone of the metal plating, the heavier feel of the wrench, the 'lobster claw', the slightly rougher casting. Then I turned one over to see the forging source and noted the lack of "forged in the USA" stamping, and a foundry code I had never seen before. I flipped it over and looked at the back and saw "made in china". I know it sounds dramatic, but it was sickening.

Kinda reminds me of the 80's change to 'new' Coke, except the company here doesnt care and is just riding the coattails of a pridefully earned reputation. Sadly, I bet they can count on that for another generation's-worth of tool buyers before the name becomes meaningless.

 

[TwoInch]

Just to clarify what i'm criticizing is that you complained about the **** Chinese craftman sells and then turn around and praised the same tools with a different name.
Apex group make the tools for sears craftman and other tool companies like gearwrench they just changes the exterior design or "look" of the tools to suit what ever brand that is buying, sometimes they don't change anything other then the brand stamping. currently sears craftsman shares countless tools with almost all the Apex brands, examples that come to mind are the ratcheting flex/non-flex wrenches, offset wrenches, line wrenches, all the internals of the ratchets and some sockets to name a few. I own all the ones i mention and they are the same down to the lobster claw they share with Gearwrench.
Nothing is unique with craftsman anyway they are Brand not a tool manufacturer so everything is contracted out. I guess you can say the look of the tools is unique to craftsman.

That's not fooling people they clearly state were its made and remove the us Flag from the package. It would be different if they still had the flag and "made in usa".

Gearwrench and Craftsman share almost no internals... I know of no ratchets that interchange parts. Unless Gearwrench sells done unknown ratchets...

Gearwrench wrenches DO NOT have lobster claws. NOTHING like Chinese craftsman... Not even close.. They are not the same products, cosmetically or internally. The sockets are very different. Gearwrench sockets are taiwan. Craftsman are Chinese. Gearwrench ratchets are taiwan... Craftsman are Chinese... Not the same.

You are just incorrect sir.

Sent from my LGLS676 using Tapatalk

 

[Andres26tnt]

my issue is the Sky is falling attitude people have towards Craftsman. A tool company that has never manufacture tools can't just start making tools or make new contracts out of thin air.

 

[Andres26tnt]

Gearwrench and Craftsman share almost no internals... I know of no ratchets that interchange parts. Unless Gearwrench sells done unknown ratchets...

Gearwrench wrenches DO NOT have lobster claws. NOTHING like Chinese craftsman... Not even close.. They are not the same products, cosmetically or internally. The sockets are very different. Gearwrench sockets are taiwan. Craftsman are Chinese. Gearwrench ratchets are taiwan... Craftsman are Chinese... Not the same.

You are just incorrect sir.

Sent from my LGLS676 using Tapatalk

yes they do, i own them but of course they offer other wrenches that don't have them. craftsman does't just get Chinese tools, they also buy Taiwanese tools. We have a large treads on here that chronicles the interchangeability between some CF, GW and other ratchets. Also Gearwrench also makes Chinese sockets, some people have also complained about it on here. Who makes Sears craftman and gearwrench? Apex a company that does a lot of platform sharing with other brands.

 

[TwoInch]

I think a lot of Sears tool people seen the writing on the wall years ago and have left for better opportunity's elsewhere. Sears is still free to source, design and market the Sears Craftsman brand.

Stanley Black and Decker the largest tool company in the world just bought the Craftsman name. One of the reasons was to supply the Canadian market. Craftsman Canada and Craftsman USA has always been separate until now.

SBD Craftsman will do reasonably well up here. because no HF, not many online sellers, not much warranty problems because Canadian Tire has been the main tool seller for years. Available in numerous brick and mortar stores besides Lowes. There is no Sears Canada.

In the US its gong to be a big clusterf--k regarding SBD Craftsman mechanics tools. Competition from Tekton and HF. Confusion between Sears Craftsman and SBD Craftsman. Hundreds of guys taking their broken Danaher made Craftsman which should technically be warranted by GearWrench to a home improvement store and getting mad.

Its like USA or nothing, but I remember going down to a Sears outlet store a few years back and it seemed dust was collecting on the US made sockets and wrenches it had in stock. Store closed about 2 years ago.

SBD has thousands of tools in its lineup but they have to decide which ones to put the Craftsman brand on. The typical Lowes customer needs a tape measure and levels not high quality sockets.

Confusion between Sears Craftsman and SBD Craftsman. Hundreds of guys taking their broken Danaher made Craftsman which should technically be warranted by GearWrench to a home improvement store and getting mad.

.

SBD has already said they will warranty older Craftsman...

And how the hell did you come up with danaher craftsman tools should be warrantied with gearwrench replacements???

Danaher(later Apex) made tools for Sears...

Danaher(manufacturer) had a tool division, joined with cooper tools and created Apex tool group, but not affiliated with gearwrench.

Gearwrench(brand) is an Apex brand.

Sears(retailer) IS NOT an Apex company... No affiliation with gearwrench.

Somehow gearwrench tools should be warranty replacements for Sears (Danaher made only) tools... On what planet?

Two totally different manufacturer/companies, totally different retailers. All Apex sockets are not made in the same factory, or by the same company. Apex is a group of brands, and different manufacturing locations.

That's like me claiming you should give me your tools whenever I break mine...

SBD knows they will severely tarnish the brand name they just spent a bazillion bucks on, if they don't warranty the older tools. Even the people who don't give a **** about COO still know and care that they CAN warranty their tools bearing the CRAFTSMAN name.. SBD know they would lose huge numbers of potential buyers if they refuse to warranty..



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