The velocity of air out of a blow nozzle is much higher than into a vacuum. That makes it vastly superior for some tasks (like blowing debris out of a spark plug well, or chips off a table) than a vacuum.
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Committing To Cordless / Experimenting With Airless
- Thread starter HPRifleman
- Start date
Badgerstate
Well-known member
With modern cordless tools, air tools have become pretty much obsolete for a DIYer. Theres so many great cordless tools out there that when you consider the coss of an air compressor that is big enough to run air tools, you save so much money with battery power. Sure, air tools themselves are pretty cheap but a big enough air compressor to run something like an impact wrench or sander is going to be far from cheap.I've been out of the garage/wrenching/tinkering hobby for about 20 years due to "life". I kept all my tools and have lugged them around with me from house to house. But now we built a decent garage and I'm ready to get back into it.
Back in the '90's, having an air compressor in the corner was just taken for granted. I still have my IR 231 and 107 as well as the compressor. The tank was getting old enough that I didn't really trust it so I started thinking about a new compressor. But the strides made in the new battery powered tools made me re-think that plan. So I placed an order for a Milwaukee impact gun.
The tentative plan is to see how long I can go without having to buy a compressor. Maybe the battery tools can meet all my needs and I won't ever need a compressor. Of course that would make me regret plumbing in a dedicated 240v circuit but that's the way it goes. I'm also wondering what will happen the first time I have to put more air in the tires of my F-350.
Anyway, the whole idea of going without air seems so foreign to me but maybe some of you have been in a similar situation.
Really, the only thing that you would aboslutely need an air compressor for is airing up your tires because cordless inflators are not going to be enough to air your tires up.
All that I have is a 4-gallon compressor, which is plenty good enough to air my tires up and run a brad nailer, which is all that Im going to use it for. Pneumatic nailers are still so much cheaper than cordless nailers are, so I dont really think that they are worth it yet.
slowtwitch73
Well-known member
My shopvac will do chips off a table all day long.The velocity of air out of a blow nozzle is much higher than into a vacuum. That makes it vastly superior for some tasks (like blowing debris out of a spark plug well, or chips off a table) than a vacuum.
Certainly this true when taking about sanders. I would disagree with typical impact wrench use. My 4 gallon compressor could keep up with my IR231 impact wrench. My 4 gallon compressor has enough air for a good burst on the trigger. That's all I ever needed. If I were running the tool more continuously I would likely change my mind regarding the small compressor.With modern cordless tools, air tools have become pretty much obsolete for a DIYer. Theres so many great cordless tools out there that when you consider the coss of an air compressor that is big enough to run air tools, you save so much money with battery power. Sure, air tools themselves are pretty cheap but a big enough air compressor to run something like an impact wrench or sander is going to be far from cheap.
Really, the only thing that you would aboslutely need an air compressor for is airing up your tires because cordless inflators are not going to be enough to air your tires up.
All that I have is a 4-gallon compressor, which is plenty good enough to air my tires up and run a brad nailer, which is all that Im going to use it for. Pneumatic nailers are still so much cheaper than cordless nailers are, so I dont really think that they are worth it yet.
We use a lot of cordless, air isn't going away for us, 3/4"-1" guns, hammers, blow guns, tires, but the battery stuff makes things so much more efficient.
I can do a lot with a 1/2" mid and 1/2" high torque M18 with 9.0 batteries not to mention the M12 stuff, without dragging a hose all over a piece of equipment. Depending on what a DIY does at home I could see all cordless being a possibility.
I can do a lot with a 1/2" mid and 1/2" high torque M18 with 9.0 batteries not to mention the M12 stuff, without dragging a hose all over a piece of equipment. Depending on what a DIY does at home I could see all cordless being a possibility.
dr_clyde
Well-known member
While a shop vac is somewhat effective, they're large, bulky, loud, and aren't nearly as fast.My shopvac will do chips off a table all day long.
An air drop right next to a machine is far more convenient, and you typically will need air on a machine tool anyway.
Yes, you blow chips on the floor to be swept up later, but you would need to sweep the floor anyway.
Not to mention chips pretty easily get stuck in the hose of a vacuum if you have anything long and stringy, as well as the coolant and oils coat the inside of the hose making it hard to keep clean. Especially if you **** up a lot of sawdust after cleaning off the mill table.
I don't think the home gamer is required to have a massive, loud industrial grade air compressor to be effective. A 15-20 gallon single stage will do 99% of most home air needs. There still is a need for an inflator, a concentrated blow nozzle, some smaller air tools like pencil grinders, die grinders and occasionally an air hammer or riveter. Are you going to run a large air grinder or a 3/4" impact off a 15 gallon portable compressor? No. But you can quickly blow out a clogged jet or nozzle, inflate some tires, run an pencil grinder or power drawbar on a mill. Plus a small compressor is a couple hundred bucks. Just consider it like one or two more battery tools.
When/if you need a bigger air compressor, you'll know it.
dnschmidt
Well-known member
It really doesn't work that way. 1) It's much easier to shop vac stuff that's on the floor instead of everywhere up high (MDF dust for example) 2) If you're blowing it outside of your garage you don't give a **** where it goes. 3) blowing stuff into a pile makes it easier to scoop up. Ever hear of a leaf blower? It's sort of that principal.Use a shop vac for cleaning things. Never understood the allure of blowing **** everywhere (to be cleaned up later).
Ton ton
Well-known member
Those 9 amp Milwaukee batteries are a total joke. I have experience unfortunately.We use a lot of cordless, air isn't going away for us, 3/4"-1" guns, hammers, blow guns, tires, but the battery stuff makes things so much more efficient.
I can do a lot with a 1/2" mid and 1/2" high torque M18 with 9.0 batteries not to mention the M12 stuff, without dragging a hose all over a piece of equipment. Depending on what a DIY does at home I could see all cordless being a possibility.
haveissues
Well-known member
Lots of things are fine on battery power but a decent compressor is a must have for me. Hard to run the plasma cutter or clean up the mill without one. Or run the free tire machine that just fell into my lap.
Yes but that’s about all that it would be good for.My shopvac will do chips off a table all day long.
Blowing dust and dead grass out of a radiator shroud on the tractor, blowing sawdust out of A table saw
Shop vac would not do a good job at all.
I would agree that using a blowgun to blow sawdust off the top of the workbench makes no sense
I dunno - outside of some of the incredibly power-hungry tools (the little M12 grinder and a couple others) having two batteries for a use-one-charge-one scenario works pretty well. I've wound up with more than that for both M18 and M12, but not really a bunch. I work pretty comfortably, even when I have several tools in play (lights, etc.) at the same time, especially with my rapid charger (though I did pretty well with the standard charger).It's 6 to 5 and pick em'...
Having both is ideal!!!
That said if you're extremely busy you'll want air unless you buy a bunch of batteries.
Those 9 amp Milwaukee batteries are a total joke. I have experience unfortunately.
See I've heard that before, we've never had any issues with the 9.0's, yet lol, we have had some with the 12.0's tho like only taking half charge and stuff. But we run the 12s pretty hard like on a 9" saw and stuff too.
Ton ton
Well-known member
8amp and 12 amp batteries work fine. But the 9 amps have been duds for us.
Badgerstate
Well-known member
You definetly can run an impact on a smaller compressor as long as you use the tool in short bursts. If you are doing something like buzzing off lug nuts, its probably fine.Certainly this true when taking about sanders. I would disagree with typical impact wrench use. My 4 gallon compressor could keep up with my IR231 impact wrench. My 4 gallon compressor has enough air for a good burst on the trigger. That's all I ever needed. If I were running the tool more continuously I would likely change my mind regarding the small compressor.
Youre never going to get the most out of the tool though because you simply cant feed it enough air.
With how great modern cordless impacts are, I wouldnt bother with a pneumatic impact. Ive got an older Snap-On impact that my father gave me when he retired from being an auto mechanic and its a great impact but unless you have a big compressor, it cant keep up with my Masterforce brushless 18v impact wrench.
johnny_boy02
Active member
In a home use environment I think you can get by fine with just battery powered tools if you just need air for small jobs like filling car tires.
I have nice air tools and nice battery powered tools. If I need an impact more than 30’ from my garage I’m grabbing the battery stuff. For everything else I just prefer air. I don’t think there is anything my current battery powered tools can’t do that my air tools can.
I have nice air tools and nice battery powered tools. If I need an impact more than 30’ from my garage I’m grabbing the battery stuff. For everything else I just prefer air. I don’t think there is anything my current battery powered tools can’t do that my air tools can.
8amp and 12 amp batteries work fine. But the 9 amps have been duds for us.
We're getting into the 8's now. Must have gotten lucky with the 9's I got, I know the tool guy at our one supply house was surprised I never brought him any 9's to return lol
OP
HPRifleman
Member Emeritus
I wanted to provide an update on how things have gone in the 5 months since starting this thread. In short, not having a compressor has been fine except for the few times that it hasn't.
The cordless tools that I have are the Milwaukee 3/8" mid-torque (2960), M12 hammer drill (2504), and M12 right-angle drill (2415). The mid-torque has taken place of my IR 231 for taking off various fasteners on vehicles and I have not yet found a situation where it did not have enough torque to do the job. This is after working on my F-350 which has more rust than steel at this point. I can see the benefits of the stubby version of this tool as getting behind the calipers on my Corvette with a deep impact socket forces some contortion to be done.
Battery life has not been a problem as I have never used the tools long enough in one shot to wear down a fully-charged battery.
I have not gotten a replacement for my IR 107 ratchet yet. My garage work is just a hobby so I don't have to rush to get things done. So I've always been content using hand ratchets to remove fasteners. That being said, I have run into situations where the fastener is over my head and I have to use a ratchet with my arms extended. A powered tool would be beneficial in this regard and not wear my arms out. My next purchase will probably be the Milwaukee M12 ratchet in either 1/4" or 3/8" (or both?).
In all honesty there have been a few situations where compressed air would have been pretty useful. Not many, but a few.
Blowing air to clear off surfaces would be handy. This doesn't happen too often but when it has, having that blowgun nearby would be nice. My workaround has been to vacuum stuff using the Shop-Vac. This is probably better anyway as it helps keep the garage cleaner. Blowing air through tubing has also been a small need.
Where I really miss an air compressor is keeping tires properly inflated. It's not a daily need obviously, but I like to maintain proper air pressure in the cars and lawn tractor. My F-350 has tires that require 80psi so that's not really going to be done with a hand pump. Maybe a small pancake or roller compressor might be warranted.
In general, I have not yet found a need to buy a conventional, fixed compressor for the kinds of things that I do in the garage. My experience has been similar to many comments on this forum. The opportunities to use an air compressor are still there but they are not as common as they used to be.
The cordless tools that I have are the Milwaukee 3/8" mid-torque (2960), M12 hammer drill (2504), and M12 right-angle drill (2415). The mid-torque has taken place of my IR 231 for taking off various fasteners on vehicles and I have not yet found a situation where it did not have enough torque to do the job. This is after working on my F-350 which has more rust than steel at this point. I can see the benefits of the stubby version of this tool as getting behind the calipers on my Corvette with a deep impact socket forces some contortion to be done.
Battery life has not been a problem as I have never used the tools long enough in one shot to wear down a fully-charged battery.
I have not gotten a replacement for my IR 107 ratchet yet. My garage work is just a hobby so I don't have to rush to get things done. So I've always been content using hand ratchets to remove fasteners. That being said, I have run into situations where the fastener is over my head and I have to use a ratchet with my arms extended. A powered tool would be beneficial in this regard and not wear my arms out. My next purchase will probably be the Milwaukee M12 ratchet in either 1/4" or 3/8" (or both?).
In all honesty there have been a few situations where compressed air would have been pretty useful. Not many, but a few.
Blowing air to clear off surfaces would be handy. This doesn't happen too often but when it has, having that blowgun nearby would be nice. My workaround has been to vacuum stuff using the Shop-Vac. This is probably better anyway as it helps keep the garage cleaner. Blowing air through tubing has also been a small need.
Where I really miss an air compressor is keeping tires properly inflated. It's not a daily need obviously, but I like to maintain proper air pressure in the cars and lawn tractor. My F-350 has tires that require 80psi so that's not really going to be done with a hand pump. Maybe a small pancake or roller compressor might be warranted.
In general, I have not yet found a need to buy a conventional, fixed compressor for the kinds of things that I do in the garage. My experience has been similar to many comments on this forum. The opportunities to use an air compressor are still there but they are not as common as they used to be.
mrjaw14
Well-known member
I use compressed air all the time at home. Here's the list of the top 5 from most frequently used to least used.
1. Blow gun - no viable substitute
2. Inflation - there are battery powered inflators but they are slow
3. Air nailers - starting to get more battery powered nailers on the market now though
4. Die grinders - I have the m12 die grinders too, but pneumatic is hard to beat.
5. Air hammer
1. Blow gun - no viable substitute
2. Inflation - there are battery powered inflators but they are slow
3. Air nailers - starting to get more battery powered nailers on the market now though
4. Die grinders - I have the m12 die grinders too, but pneumatic is hard to beat.
5. Air hammer
finn
Well-known member
Add sandblast cabinet and paint spray guns to that list.
I still use air, but battery has certainly made inroads and is preferred in many instances.
I still use air, but battery has certainly made inroads and is preferred in many instances.
crewchief888
Well-known member
i started wrenching professionally long, long, before anything cordless was around. ive invested heavily in air tools, for both home and work use.
i do use cordless drills, impact and grinder at work, mainly so i dont have to start a compressor in my old service truck. around the house, drill & impact driver will do everything i need to do.
my new service truck has onboard air available at the flip of a switch, been using air tools a lot more since i got the new truck
i do use cordless drills, impact and grinder at work, mainly so i dont have to start a compressor in my old service truck. around the house, drill & impact driver will do everything i need to do.
my new service truck has onboard air available at the flip of a switch, been using air tools a lot more since i got the new truck
Nice update OP
A 26 gallon quiet compressor would cover 90% of the GJs here I bet.
I'm still using mine on a weekly basis, mostly for air nails, with the quality and price of battery guns I'm sticking with my pin, 18g, 15g, staple, and framing guns until the tech catches up and gets $ competitive.
A 26 gallon quiet compressor would cover 90% of the GJs here I bet.
I'm still using mine on a weekly basis, mostly for air nails, with the quality and price of battery guns I'm sticking with my pin, 18g, 15g, staple, and framing guns until the tech catches up and gets $ competitive.
duneslider
Well-known member
I am to the point that the cheap small porter cable pancake compressor can do everything that I need it to do. I don't use it very often. The only air tools that I still use are nail guns. I don't use them very often and can't justify spending the money on all cordless versions but the few that I have used would work fine for the occasional use I would use them for.
I don't use any air tools working on cars anymore. I am all electric there.
I don't use any air tools working on cars anymore. I am all electric there.
OP, I think the answer for your needs is a small compressor, preferably a low noise model. I'm sorry you missed Walmart clearing out a Goodyear branded 8 gallon quiet compressor. I picked up one for a friend. $60. Every bit as quiet as my Cal Air Tools compressor. Anyway, if you can handle the noise, get one of those $100 Porter Cables. It has plenty of air to do what you ask and is otherwise small and easy to store. If you ever change your air needs you are only out $100.