Communications conduit size

[Highbeam]

Guys I need help. Centurylink Phone and Comcast(Xfinifty) cable service. I am relocating aerial services to underground and boring under the road. I need to pull conduit for power, phone, and cable. These will be PVC conduits.

What size conduit do I need to pull for phone and cable? The service providers are all morons, do not know, won't tell, are not available, etc. The guys will show up to install and either will or won't be able to use my conduit so I want to get it right.

It costs a lot of money to oversize due to the bore so smaller is better.

What is the minimum size I must provide? I've got the answer for my power.

Thank you folks.

 

[Slowgsr]

1" for a couple communication lines,
But if go 1.5" especially if it's not all being pulled at once

Communication guys always want giant conduits for nothing, I remember when I used to do all the Laura women's clothing stores I'd have to run 2 2.5" conduits for like 6-8 cat5 cables, and they had to go down a wall through/under a slab (cutting if on grade, coring if not) and into the cash desk.

Anyways

 

[Highbeam]

These will be separate conduits for a single phone line and a single coaxial cable. I know I can pull through a one inch conduit but I want to avoid the situation where the guy shows up and refuses to use a one inch conduit to pull a single cable line.

 

[Fishplate]

Guys I need help. Centurylink Phone and Comcast(Xfinifty) cable service.

<...>

What size conduit do I need to pull for phone and cable? The service providers are all morons, do not know, won't tell, are not available, etc. The guys will show up to install and either will or won't be able to use my conduit so I want to get it right.

Get it in writing that they don't know. Then put in what you want. Or put in something bigger than you think you need, so you won't have to do it twice.

Conduit is cheap, compared to the cost of installing it multiple times.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

2" would be plenty.

 

[rlitman]

We have 4" conduits at work (a dozen or so, headed to two different streets). You don't need that, but the bigger fiber and copper communications cables we have can be pretty stiff, and don't work well in tight places.

What I can say definitively is that providers do not like to share conduits. While a 1 1/2" pipe will flow as much as two parallel 1" pipes, and has (approximately) twice the fill area for conductors, it is not that simple an issue. Pulling a cable through a populated conduit is nowhere near as simple as pulling all the necessary cables at one time (even if a pull string is provided).

BUT, there are other options. You can put an "innerduct" inside the conduit to help with this issue. There are multi segmented fabric innerducts that allow you to pull several separate cables through a conduit. If you use one of these, you could do everything in a single larger conduit. Does that save you enough money on the boring to make it worthwhile?

 

[Highbeam]

Get it in writing that they don't know. Then put in what you want. Or put in something bigger than you think you need, so you won't have to do it twice.

Conduit is cheap, compared to the cost of installing it multiple times.

That's the problem. They won't put anything in writing. The guy that pulls the conduit is likely a contractor that will make the call onsite based on some sort of rule that is apparently not public information.

Conduit is cheap but the boring price goes up about 500$ for each increment larger in diameter. It will cost me an extra 500$ just for the bore to run 2" conduits compared to a pair of 1" conduits.

 

[alfredeneuman]

Contact Centurylink Phone and Comcast and ask them what they require ?

 

[Highbeam]

2" would be plenty.

I know but at much greater cost. Local builders seem to use 1" flexible conduit that looks like PE water service line.

 

[Highbeam]

Contact Centurylink Phone and Comcast and ask them what they require ?

Tried all morning long. After 9 transfers at Comcast, the nice lady had her friend text a tech that said 1" should be fine. Not official and not in writing but even she felt bad for how impossible it is to find out what should be very available information.

Phone guy was worse. He will have some guy call within 48 hours. Bids go out tonight.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Tried all morning long. After 9 transfers at Comcast, the nice lady had her friend text a tech that said 1" should be fine. Not official and not in writing but even she felt bad for how impossible it is to find out what should be very available information.

Phone guy was worse. He will have some guy call within 48 hours. Bids go out tonight.

Ive dealt with moving service feeds from overhead to underground on several houses for BOTH companies many times. They have always wanted 1.5" conduit. And make sure u run one conduit for each company. They wont pull their cable through an occupied conduit!

Yes 1.5" is overkill for a coax or phone line but thats what they want!

 

[Beemer533]

How long will the conduit run be and how many bends? This will make a huge difference.

Is the internet fiber? If so (at least with FIOS) the head they have on the fiber is very large and would probably need an empty 2" to pull through.

If it is cable, depending on the length of the run it would be RG6 or RG11 for a really long run. The phone might be something like an 18awg pair.

Depending on your run, you might easily get away with a 1", but I don't think I would do less than a 1.5", personally.

 

[volleyball]

Get the cable from them and pull them both together along with extra cables and a pull cable.
The phone will be cat wire.

 

[Highbeam]

Thanks guys. It will be cat wire and regular coax. Separate conduit. I think I can get two 1.5" conduits in along with 3" for power. These three will be in a 6" bore.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Id check with a different boring contractor.The guy who normally does my boring for water services under roads will normally bore about 10 feet back from a 2 lane rd to get his depth at 5-6' under the road then he'll cross 2 lanes and the yard and drill a hole through foundation with his machine and pull back my copper for $1,000-1,200.00,the head on his boring machine is atleast 2 1/2" that he bores the hole with.
Look for somebody who does a lot of sprinkler system work,they tend to be more affordable than the cable guys.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Thanks guys. It will be cat wire and regular coax. Separate conduit. I think I can get two 1.5" conduits in along with 3" for power. These three will be in a 6" bore.

Power should be in a separate trench to avoid interference,Id keep them atleast 12" apart.

 

[CNGsaves]

+1 with Zmax that you NEED distance separating the 2 bores . . . . yes one bore will ONLY be for the 3" electrical . . . then a SEPARATE bore at least 12" away will be another bore for your low voltage (phone, CATV). Thus, if CenturyLink and ComCast won't share a conduit, then you will have 2 bores total . . . . 3" for electric with separation of a foot, then another 3" bore to hopefully pull through your two 1.5" conduits (ie 1.5" conduit for phone and another 1.5" conduit for CATV). You could just hire a subcontractor who does sprinkler systems and they easily could use DitchWitch or Vermeer and do those bores.

OP . . . please clarify WHAT ROAD these are going under?? If is really just going under your own driveway concrete on your property (thus private property)?? Or are these going under a PUBLIC roadway ?? A public roadway will need special permits that I'm presuming CenturyLink/ComCast are taking care of . . . . right ?? Please fill in all the blanks. Good luck.

 

[Highbeam]

Only one 6" bore (directional drilling) under a public roadway which requires a county permit. The bore will be 40 feet long and it won't be a hole hog since there is a sewer force main out there and we need better control.

Seperation is only required to be 4" between power and comm according to the power company and joint service trench regulations here. Once out of the bore they will have as much separation as possible in the open trench dug with a case 580.

That's the problem, the comm guys are unavailable for input about what they want and where. They will show up to pull cable only.

 

[rlitman]

You cannot have 4" of separation in a single 6" bore.

 

[Slednut]

1 inch for each is fine, just make sure you use at least 24 inch sweeps. The company I work for will drop off the conduit and sweeps free of charge if the customer installs it in the trench.

 

[CharlieM]

Only one 6" bore (directional drilling) under a public roadway which requires a county permit. The bore will be 40 feet long and it won't be a hole hog since there is a sewer force main out there and we need better control.

Seperation is only required to be 4" between power and comm according to the power company and joint service trench regulations here. Once out of the bore they will have as much separation as possible in the open trench dug with a case 580.

That's the problem, the comm guys are unavailable for input about what they want and where. They will show up to pull cable only.

Industry standard is:

3" Concrete
4" Masonry
12" Earth

Local phone/cable engineer's might request a print of some sort before they will pull cable into a location, showing location and depth of conduits.

 

[rockwithjason]

Search centurylink residential conduit standard. They have a tech pubs site that has all of the standards. You have to talk to engineering about this stuff not customer service

 

[volleyball]

Only one 6" bore (directional drilling) under a public roadway which requires a county permit. The bore will be 40 feet long and it won't be a hole hog since there is a sewer force main out there and we need better control.

Seperation is only required to be 4" between power and comm according to the power company and joint service trench regulations here.

You are foolish to think the 4" separation is fine for the signal cables. The power company could not care less about your signal wires. They just want it not touching their wires. You don't see the signal cables 4" from the power on the poles.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I agree. U really need more than 4" of separation! Think about the EMI radiating from the power lines. Yes most of it is canceled but it can still affect the com wires...

Or have u thought about using SHIELDED comm wires?

 

[Highbeam]

I agree. U really need more than 4" of separation! Think about the EMI radiating from the power lines. Yes most of it is canceled but it can still affect the com wires...

Or have u thought about using SHIELDED comm wires?

I'd love to have more separation but the cost of two bores is too high. Honestly, I'd be lucky to get 4" separation with a single 6" bore. My question was about conduit size and I have read that 1-1.5" is plenty.

I read about shielded wire while searching for this answer and my current aerial cable doesn't seem to have markers on it indicating shielded or not. Is the shielded wire readily available?

 

[Highbeam]

You are foolish to think the 4" separation is fine for the signal cables. The power company could not care less about your signal wires. They just want it not touching their wires. You don't see the signal cables 4" from the power on the poles.

The power company wants 4" but the NEC does not require it. the aerial requirement is 3' of separation as I recall which is again dictated by the power company for safety. None of this answers my question about conduit size.

 

[Highbeam]

Search centurylink residential conduit standard. They have a tech pubs site that has all of the standards. You have to talk to engineering about this stuff not customer service

I did that search and could NOT find any reference to conduit size. I found the PUBS site for wholesale standards but not residential. The engineers are well hidden and protected from these sorts of questions.

 

[Highbeam]

Actually guys, I will get another bid for the bores. Perhaps I can get two smaller bores for only slightly more than a single 6" bore.

 

[volleyball]

Running your wires in conductive metal conduit will help with EMI. Also cores might help.
I don't get the separate comm conduit except those companies not wanting to have to deal with someone else wires.
How hard would it be to stop where you see a installation truck and just ask the tech?

 

[Highbeam]

Running your wires in conductive metal conduit will help with EMI. Also cores might help.
I don't get the separate comm conduit except those companies not wanting to have to deal with someone else wires.
How hard would it be to stop where you see a installation truck and just ask the tech?

State law, that's what they say, can't share the same conduit. I'll only be using the phone conduit anyway until/unless I ever want to go back to cable.

I saw a Comcast installer today and almost stopped but I was on a motorcycle. Centurylink guys are harder to find. Good idea though. I'll keep my eye out.

 

[Highbeam]

Thank you for your help folks. I have to abandon the project. Total project cost bumped over the 8000$ line with some variables that could push it higher.

1) The bores ended up way too expensive in part due to having to open up the road to verify that he wouldn't hit one utility that's already out there.

2) Can't hole hog the road, ground is too hard.

3) Too much money, too much time.

Instead, this fall, I will plant a pole on my property and string an aerial line to the pole and from the pole I will trench to the house. I will be sure to maintain 12" minimum separation as was suggested here.