Composite Door Frame

[sparky67]

I ordered a composite door frame for my exterior basement door. I picked it up today and it said composite but now that I have it home and am taking a closer look, it looks like it may be wood. Of course the lumber supply is already closed for the weekend and I would like to install it if it is indeed composite. If its not I'll have to wait till Monday and call them. Looking in the catalog for pictures they have both a primed composite and a vinyl wrapped composite. I got the primed version and that picture isn't very clear but the vinyl wrapped looks like what I would expect a composite to be.

This is what I got:

What do you think? Composite or not.

 

[lotsoftools]

Looks like wood to me.

 

[Bondo]

Ayuh,.... It's either end-grain, or saw marks,... hard to tell...

If yer thumbnail it, what's it feel like,..?? soft like wood,..??

 

[sparky67]

It kind of feels soft, as in my thumbnail will scratch it. Just look at how the staples went in.

 

[PT Doc]

Frame is wood, door is composite.

 

[sparky67]

Well that kind of messes with my plans this weekend.

 

[nit2wn]

your out of luck . We ordered one from Lowe's and it took about 6 weeks for it from Pella. I'm sure it's not the same deal though. Ours was a custom color deal. Fiberglass door with an aluminum frame. Sucker was expensive, but I said buy it right and buy it once with no maintenance. Should never have to be painted in my lifetime.

 

[AndyL]

Could be wrong, but the "composite" I've seen some retailers sell is closer to trex (composite decking) - in reality think MDF with PVC in the mix...

Can't see enough to tell myself - but the chips kinda make me think pure MDF...

 

[bighouse01]

Maybe "composite" turns out to be finger-jointed pre-primed wood. Meaning instead of one continuous board making up the jamb, it is a composite of multiple pieces joined together.

 

[rjwilliams]

They are rot resistant so just make sure that you apply a good coat of paint and you will be good to go.

 

[ddawg16]

I'm inclined to think that when they say 'composite', they mean not all of the same material. I don't think I have seen a door frame made of the 'composite' material...i.e., recycled plastic and other materials....(deck boards).

Obviously your door is metal....so it you take into consideration that the door is metal and the frame wood....that would be a composite assembly....

Personally, I don't think I would want a 'real' composite door frame....they tend to not be as stiff as real wood.

If your worried about wood rote....just make sure you prime and paint any edges real well. If you keep the water from getting into the wood...it will last a long time.

 

[Steevo]

As an exterior door, shouldn't it have a metal threshold, not wood?

 

[sparky67]

Obviously your door is metal.....

Actually its a fiberglass door.

This is what the frame should be and I am quite sure its referring to only the frame:
Reeb On Guard I think they just made a mistake. I'll find out for sure on Monday.

The reason for the rot concern is this is a basement door. Its at the bottom of the steps bellow a bilco door. If there is a blowing rain water tends to get under the door and sit at the bottom of the steps. We also used to get water in the basement but installed an exterior water proofing system and I think that solved it. Still I dont want wood in contact with the floor.

 

[sparky67]

As an exterior door, shouldn't it have a metal threshold, not wood?

The threshold is metal over composite, see the last picture

 

[Kevin54]

Actually its a fiberglass door.

This is what the frame should be and I am quite sure its referring to only the frame:
Reeb On Guard I think they just made a mistake. I'll find out for sure on Monday.

The reason for the rot concern is this is a basement door. Its at the bottom of the steps bellow a bilco door. If there is a blowing rain water tends to get under the door and sit at the bottom of the steps. We also used to get water in the basement but installed an exterior water proofing system and I think that solved it. Still I dont want wood in contact with the floor.

It sounds like your Bilco isn't installed right if you are getting water through it.

 

[sparky67]

It sounds like your Bilco isn't installed right if you are getting water through it.

Maybe not but I cant seem to figure out how it may be installed wrong. It just seems like they dont seal well. It only happens with a blowing rain. Its like water running down the door gets blown in underneath. I might add a piece of flashing to see if I can direct the water out farther. The other problem is that the water running down the sides also seems to come in where the sides meet the block. Everything is sloped away and I re-caulked between the metal and the block but yet it gets wet. I really cant figure that one out. The good thing is we need quite a bit of rain before the water makes it down the steps but once it doeskin leave easily.

 

[Kevin54]

Maybe not but I cant seem to figure out how it may be installed wrong. It just seems like they dont seal well. It only happens with a blowing rain. Its like water running down the door gets blown in underneath. I might add a piece of flashing to see if I can direct the water out farther. The other problem is that the water running down the sides also seems to come in where the sides meet the block. Everything is sloped away and I re-caulked between the metal and the block but yet it gets wet. I really cant figure that one out. The good thing is we need quite a bit of rain before the water makes it down the steps but once it doeskin leave easily.

The reason I mentioned it was a good friend of mine had a new house built. Every time it rained, he would get water at the bottom of the stairs that was coming in through the Bilco door. The contractor installed it wrong and had the walls poured too far apart. Instead of the sides hanging over the side walls, the doors were sitting on top of the walls. After my buddy complained about the water the contractor caulked the doors. It still didn't help. And along with that, it wasn't flashed at the house correctly.

If a Bilco is installed correctly, it shouldn't leak unless like you say, it's leaking where the Bilco foundation meets the house foundation. But the Bilco frame itself should be hanging over the side walls and it should be flashed at the house to the top of the Bilco frame. I can't remember whether there is a seal at the center where one door closes over the other or not, but if there is not a seal, you may want to look at putting some sort of seal on it.

 

[sparky67]

But the Bilco frame itself should be hanging over the side walls and it should be flashed at the house to the top of the Bilco frame.

Well that sounds like the issue. The bilco is ~1-2" inside the edge of the block. There is a slope to it so the water should run away but I guess there is probably some type of capillary like response that causes the water to want to run along the metal and in regardless. Thanks for the insight.

I guess i could take a grinder and cut the block back but i doubt that its worth it. Eventually I'll find a way to get rid of this bilco door all together.

 

[Kevin54]

Well that sounds like the issue. The bilco is ~1-2" inside the edge of the block. There is a slope to it so the water should run away but I guess there is probably some type of capillary like response that causes the water to want to run along the metal and in regardless. Thanks for the insight.

I guess i could take a grinder and cut the block back but i doubt that its worth it. Eventually I'll find a way to get rid of this bilco door all together.

Can you take a pic of the Bilco and post it? From what you say, it sounds just like my buddy's house. If I remember correctly, the Bilco has a lip on it. The lip should hang over the edge of the block or poured wall. Before it is set onto the block wall, it should have a bead or two of caulk to set it on. The same as any exterior door. If you are saying the Bilco is on top of the wall, that's where your water is getting in.

I'd like to see a pic though if possible.

 

[ripper70]

That is NOT a composite jamb. I install them all the time. They make 1 that is ALL composite and 1 that is about 6 inches of composite on jamb bottoms finger jointed on wood so bottom of jamb doesn't rot.Id say they just ordered the wrong door is all. Also if you live where it rains all the time always install a stainless steel door pan under door.It is a MUST here on the oregon coast regardless if door is installed wrong or not it WILL leak without pan.

http://enduraproducts.com/product-overview/framesaver/index.aspx

 

[sparky67]

It took a few days to coordinate but they came out and replaced the jamb.
Here is a picture of the bilco: