Compressed air & pvc

[claymont]

A good site for information on plastic pipe and fittings.


http://www.lascofittings.com/compressed-air-and-pvc

Often we are asked about the use of PVC piping systems for use in compressed air transmission or testing. Our response has to be a thunderous - NO!
The following supports our position:

• The Plastic Pipe and Fittings Association notes in their PPFA Bulletin #4-80 (10/79) "Compressed air or inert gases should never be used for pressure testing plastic piping systems.
• "The Plastic Piping Institute issued Recommendation B - Thermoplastic piping for the transport of compressed air or compressed gases.

"The plastic pipe Institute recommends against the use of thermoplastic pipe to transport compressed air or other gases or the testing of such piping with compressed air or other compressed gases in exposed above ground locations, e.g. in exposed plant piping. It is recommended that all thermoplastic piping used to transport compressed air or other compressed gases be buried underground or encased in shatter-resistant materials. In designing thermoplastic piping to transport compressed air or other compressed gases, the strength at the operating temperature, the pressure, the energetics and the specific failure mechanism need to be evaluated." - Adopted January 19, 1972

• The American Society for Testing Materials has this draft proposal which will be added to the standards for PVC pipe and fittings.

"The products covered by this specification shall not be used in piping systems intended to store and/or to convey compressed air or other gases. Furthermore, these piping system products shall not be tested with compressed air or other gases unless recommended for such testing by the specific manufacturer, Additionally, the specific manufacturer making this recommendation shall provide a detailed procedure for such testing." - ASTM F17 - Project 90-95-01

Although the use of PVC for compressed air transmission may appear easy, and inexpensive, the dangers are real and immense. Water, like most liquids, is not compressible, therefore it cannot store energy. When a hydrostatic failure occurs, water is projected, but the shrapnel is not projected very far.
On the other hand, air and other gases are compressible. This can result in large amounts of stored energy. System failure could lead to a disastrous situation when this energy is released, sending shrapnel outward. Severe injury and damage can result.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

I'm waiting for the inevitable "Been using PVC for 10k years.
Never been a problem" post...

IBTL...

 

[tapered-pin]

What does LASCO know?? they only manufacture the stuff..

 

[Stuart in MN]

Most of the PVC pipe manufacturers have similar information on their websites, if you dig around on them.

 

[mustang68408]

I look at it like this... can you put compressed air in a PVC pipe. Yep, and to the post above you'll find that manufacturers will say "Yep, it'll work". It doesn't mean that it's safe if there is damage to the pipe...

Rapid air kit's aren't terrible in cost compared to copper... heck even Pex if you are really concerned about cost.

At least no explosion of fragments into your environment.

 

[FTG-05]

I've been using PVC in my shop for over 10 years, never been a problem.




I think I upchucked a bit in my mouth writing that........

 

[Lelandwelds]

I worked in a wood stove factory in 1980. A PVC airline broke and blew pieces everywhere. I thought I had been shot. Boss had two of us put PVC back in but paint it to keep the sun off it.

He also had a Hyster forklift with no brakes on a hillside, pallet racks with multiple damaged uprights loaded with tons of steel parts, and a shop made overhead trolley that snaked to each workstation. If you bumped it, it jumped the track and dropped the stove.

It is dumb to take stupid, lazy risks. Can we petition a mod to consider all pvc airline a political topic and banned?

 

[Stuart in MN]

and to the post above you'll find that manufacturers will say "Yep, it'll work".

???


I'm not aware of any manufacturer of PVC pipe that says that.

 

[nes999]

Back in high school we made PVC rockets, granted weren't supposed to go over 40 PSI according to the teacher. Plenty of my fellow students pumped until the bicycle pump would pump no more.

Would I use for airline? No, black iron is far too cheap to risk it.

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk

 

[Dan in Pasadena]

I'm waiting for the inevitable "Been using PVC for 10k years.
Never been a problem" post...

IBTL...

My brother-in-law has had a small system of it in his garage for over 30 years. I never knew about the danger of PVC when I was a kid and when I finally found out i told him about it and he couldn’t have cared less. Made fun of the idea.

Fortunately/unfortunately his health is such that he oesnt use his shop much at all anymore but as soon as he is gone and i have to go through is tools for my sister i will break all that **** out of there.

 

[Tinkerman66]

My brother-in-law has had a small system of it in his garage for over 30 years. I never knew about the danger of PVC when I was a kid and when I finally found out i told him about it and he couldn’t have cared less. Made fun of the idea.

Fortunately/unfortunately his health is such that he oesnt use his shop much at all anymore but as soon as he is gone and i have to go through is tools for my sister i will break all that **** out of there.

I can't beat the 30 years as my pvc lines have only been installed 20 years with no problems regulated to 100 psi. Father in law on the other hand is pushing 35 years, no regulator, 150 psi. Again, without a problem with the line but the bottom of a compressor blew out about 5 years ago that was still on its shipping pallet and tried to go through the roof. Bad draining maintenance.

 

[Tinkerman66]

Back in high school we made PVC rockets, granted weren't supposed to go over 40 PSI according to the teacher. Plenty of my fellow students pumped until the bicycle pump would pump no more.

I wonder what pressures are reached in the potatoe guns that are made with pvc pipe and fittings while plugging one end with a potatoe and filling the other end with hairspray and igniting?

 

[Lelandwelds]

I knew a guy who looked for leaks with a lighter. He eventually burned his own trailer down from a propane leak.

I knew another guy who fixed low performing wells. He pulled the pump and counted joints until the first wet one. He dropped a quarter stick to almost that depth. He sat on a bucket on top of the casing and touched the wires to a lantern battery. The explosion would blow him to his feet a short distance away.

It reminded me of a large rifle barrel. Both guys had done their thing for years. Can't fix stupid.

 

[Stuart in MN]

I can't beat the 30 years as my pvc lines have only been installed 20 years with no problems regulated to 100 psi. Father in law on the other hand is pushing 35 years, no regulator, 150 psi.

PVC will work fine, right up until the moment it fails...that could be 30 years or 30 minutes, you just don't know when.

 

[mustang68408]

???


I'm not aware of any manufacturer of PVC pipe that says that.

What I was referring to was...

"The Plastic Pipe and Fittings Association notes in their PPFA Bulletin #4-80 (10/79) "Compressed air or inert gases should never be used for pressure testing plastic piping systems."

 

[coljar]

There's a problem using PVC for air? I NEVER heard that before....................

 

[Norcal]

The problem is not those of us who know better not to use PVC for compressed air, the problem is those who do not care that they are using a hazardous product.

 

[Mooky]

Claymont, do you think I’ll be ok using pvc for a system of three 1,500 hp Centacs? Somewhere around 40,000 scfm @ 120 psig.

I can let you know when it starts up, might want to seek shelter

 

[ant.foste]

I work for a huge equipment rental company with over 1,000 locations/shops these days. It's been known to me for a couple of decades that PVC in air systems is a complete no-go but I was completely shocked to stumble across an internal company marketing or rah-rah type of picture showing PVC in the background.

I notified the safety management in the area, and unfortunately educated them as well (unfortunate they didn't know about this danger). I received some feedback two weeks later letting me know that it was verified later the day the piping shown in the picture was indeed PVC, they immediately shutdown, locked out, and drained the air system, demo'd the entire thing three days later, and had a complete new system with a mix of copper and black pipe installed and the shop was back up and running.

Moral of the story: PVC air systems pop up everywhere, and ignorance is the driving reason.

 

[GTO]

Where's the "beating the dead horse picture"....please insert here.

 

[bsaint]

I just had a PVC pipe blow off a compressor at an auto body shop this past week. Scared the **** outta the customer! I told them thats why we dont use PVC...

 

[firebirdparts]

I wonder what pressures are reached in the potatoe guns that are made with pvc pipe and fittings while plugging one end with a potatoe and filling the other end with hairspray and igniting?

For a vapor cloud explosion 150 psig is probably close to the limit.