Compression - Show Off Your Compressor

[larry4406]

JustBoosted - nice looking setup. The copper parallel "manifold" - is this a passive aftercooler (non-fan assist)?

 

[John Timmins]

Any ideas or thoughts on this? They don't have any info on it. Someone is giving it away, and I'm wondering if it is worth picking up...

HI. Google Fero Air pumps. I have one. Look on the compressor and see if it says Fero on it. Get it Let me know. I want to know what the motor says on it for size.

John Timmins
[email protected]

 

[DRRummel]

JustBoosted - nice looking setup. The copper parallel "manifold" - is this a passive aftercooler (non-fan assist)?

I will second that. Nice looking setup.

 

[Steve in Mi]

Any ideas or thoughts on this? They don't have any info on it. Someone is giving it away, and I'm wondering if it is worth picking up...

Looks like an old Brenner pump. Low rpm and quiet running. Besides air compressors Brenner made a whole line of refrigeration compressors - not sure if they are still in business.

 

[goodfellow]

HI. Google Fero Air pumps. I have one. Look on the compressor and see if it says Fero on it. Get it Let me know. I want to know what the motor says on it for size.

John Timmins
[email protected]

Motor doesn't look stock -- looks like a modern large frame 220V with two capacitor banks.

I'm sure the original motor was much larger and three-phase

 

[NSXSOON]

Finished the plumbing so I took a shot of the set up:

 

[dragginbalz]

JustBoosted.

It looks like a nice clean install, but I think I am missing something. By running the copper isn't the purpose to act as a cooler to cool the compressed air to help remove the moisture? I know Devillbiss and others recommend to run your piping 25-50 ' before your first drop. The way you plumbed it all together, you just effectively increased your stored air volume by a little bit, right? I am no expert and may be missing something, but shouldn't you have plumbed it like this?

Either way it looks really nice! Great job!

t

 

[wilbilt]

How does the pump pulley/cooling fan draw any air when it's against the wall like that? I would rotate the compressor 90 degrees to get some airflow.

 

[RbrtAWhyt]

Nice looking set-up...

 

[Steve in Mi]

I like your manifold setup.
I plan on doing something similar but using fin tube and low velocity forced air circulation across the fins.
I purchased the fin tube for it some time ago - need to find time to assemble it and add to my air supply system.

 

[akdiesel]

It will be interesting to see if it works. Please keep us updated on this system.
If it does not work you atleast have one of the cleanest set ups.

 

[wilbilt]

The fan guard is about 4-5" from the wall. Hard to see with such a straight-on pic I know. I can feel quite a breeze standing in front of it when it is running, so it must be getting good airflow. How far should it be from the wall?

I don't know how far, there might be a spec in the manual. I guess if it's moving air it's OK, but is sure looks tight in the pics.

 

[logical]

I haven't added the rest of the plumbing yet for the overhead reel and other outlets and on into the basement but here it is so far.

 

[tampascl]

Finally got mine. 80 gallon 1992 Belaire with rebuilt Italian compressor (T29) and Dayton 3hp motor. Searched craigslist for a while, and ended up finding this from a reputable dealer in Tampa that provided warranty and great service and a very good price I think. All in, $800 bucks, including filter w/auto drain, magnetic starter, manual ball valve for drain, and a couple of extra fittings, and delivery to my garage. Could use a paint job, but all in all very happy with my purchase.

 

[ron in sc]

Good clean dry air but no compressor to be found.

 

[kenz240z]

New compressor, old compressor, air lines...

I just picked up this Eagle 2 stage, 7.5 hp 80 gallon compressor at The Mercantile, a farm/ranch store in the area. It is rated at 24.6 cfm @ 100 psi which should be plenty for my little blast cabinet, air tools and spray painting. I brought it home on my flatbed trailer and my neighbor was kind enough to help unload it with his tractor.

Anyway, it is replacing a Craftsman single stage 5.5 hp, oil less (noisy) 40 gallon that has performed as well as it can for close to 10 years. I've never really had a problem with it, other than waiting for the tank to pump up anytime I use a cutoff tool or the blast cabinet... I can't wait to get the Eagle compressor up and running!

My shop is a 40' X 50' with separate rooms on one side, with the big space being 40' X 40'. I've started running 3/4" black metal pipe with 1/2" drops at various locations. The compressor is located in a storage room to help minimize the noise, although the old Craftsman is still pleny loud. The first drop is for a tech type work bench right outside the storage room. I put a couple of drops in a small work room, one for my bench top blast cabinet and the other near a maple top work bench. Then there is a drop on the back wall with several quick connects, one of which is for a HF planishing hammer.

The drop on the back wall has a Motor Gard regulator, filter and water trap. All of the other drops have combination regulator/filter/watertrap units I bought at Sears. I have yet to accumulate any water in any of the traps with the setup I have. Future plans are to run more 3/4" pipe along the other walls of the big area with a drop for the spray paint gun. I'm setting up one corner of the shop as a makeshift spray booth using 6 mil plastic for a couple of the walls.

Here are a few pics...

 

[GzrGlide]

After months of lurking here and watching the local Princess Auto and HD stores, all the stars finally aligned.........

The compressor went on sale (for $180 off the regular price) so I hooked up the trailer and took off to go get one. The utility company has already been here to stake out where the power/gas/phone lines are in the ground. So now I can start digging and laying cable for 220V!!!!

Got it home, but how do I get it off the trlr and then into the garage???.....

Quick panicked call to some guys in the Jeep club and it was off the trailer. Took 4 of us maybe 2 minutes to get it off the trailer. Now its sitting in it's new "home".

Specs.....

Garage is slowly getting there.

Woohoo. In a couple of years I'll be getting a Miller MIG welder for the garage.

 

[cj8lvr]

Here's mine just after I got it wired up:

I added an hour meter to it too so I would have a better idea of when to do oil changes. Fabbed up a schnazzy little bracket for it out of some scrap aluminum:

 

[sberry]

2 of them, the second is for hi demand and the primary is under a sound blanket. Got one on a truck too. Can hook them all together if needed for sandblasting.

 

[DRRummel]

I see a lot of custom lines between the compressor and the hard lines. How do you make the line. Is it anything special?

 

[Kevin54]

I added an hour meter to it too so I would have a better idea of when to do oil changes. Fabbed up a schnazzy little bracket for it out of some scrap aluminum:

Great idea. I think I may copy that for mine.

 

[tsbrewers]

I see a lot of custom lines between the compressor and the hard lines. How do you make the line. Is it anything special?

I believe most of us use custom hydraulic lines. You can get them made at almost any farm store, some automotive stores, etc. Mine cost about $30 if I recall correctly.

Brew

 

[cj8lvr]

Great idea. I think I may copy that for mine.

3AE11 from Grainger. Paid about $30 I believe. Aluminum bracket and wiring not included. I also drilled three extra holes and riveted it together with 6 total just for a little extra rigidity. It has three holes in it IIRC. I just wired it into the pressure switch box so it would get 110 whenever the compressor cuts on.

I don't use my compressor every day like some. It's pretty sporadic so knowing when it's due for an oil change can be pretty tricky. Not now.

 

[GzrGlide]

Great idea and nice execution. I'm tempted to do the same thing, but i'll just change the oil every spring along with the other spring maintenance items.

 

[sberry]

Yes, I used common hydraulic lines off the shelf, some as low as 10$ and come with fittings installed. The bottle in the middle is a water trap. All air goes there before it hits the building manifold.

 

[G-force]

Good info. I look foward to posting my new compressor next week. Unfortunately my shop is currently plummed for air with PVC lines so I will also have to go through and install copper. It's a long run over the barn and into the shop. I have no experience working with copper pipe so this might be interesting/frustrating. Any vital tips?

 

[RAYJAY]

Good info. I look foward to posting my new compressor next week. Unfortunately my shop is currently plummed for air with PVC lines so I will also have to go through and install copper. It's a long run over the barn and into the shop. I have no experience working with copper pipe so this might be interesting/frustrating. Any vital tips?

go with black pipe its better than copper,

 

[KenS]

go with black pipe its better than copper,

Go with copper, it's better than black pipe.

 

[RAYJAY]

Go with copper, it's better than black pipe.

why



I will never go with copper ever again...... had to many problems the black pipe cools the air much better and $$$$$$$ cheaper also



http://www.tptools.com/StaticText/airline-piping-diagram.pdf

From tp tools pdf

By using metal piping of proper size, not only does the piping serve
as an "air reservoir", it also enables the moisture-laden air to cool so that the water separators can do their job. A
properly installed system of metal piping will eliminate most problems of moisture and will provide sufficient air
volume to the air-operated equipment. The most important feature is to use "Risers" (shown above). "Risers" allow
system to draw dry air, leaving moisture in the piping where it can be removed with water separators.
*Use regular black metal piping for installation. PVC or copper is not recommended.


Use Black Iron Pipe only. We do not recommend galvanized metal pipe, as galvanization can come off the inside of the pipe, clogging
separators and regulators. Do not use plastic pipe, as plastic will not help cool the air; and glued joints often separate. Avoid copper
tubing, as it is easily damaged; and soldered joints can come loose under pressure (Safety Hazard). Use 1/2" pipe for up to 75 feet of
horizontal runs of pipe from your compressor. Use 3/4" pipe for horizontal runs of over 75 feet

Jeff

 

[goodfellow]

Copper is easier to work with, but black pipe cools the hot air much quicker. If you live in a very humid climate and don't have adequate moisture filtration, then black pipe can be a nuisance. It does corrode fairly quicky in a hot moisture rich environement.

At that point you need very high quality air filters at the drops, or you air tools may also deteriorate.

 

[RAYJAY]

3AE11 from Grainger. Paid about $30 I believe. Aluminum bracket and wiring not included. I also drilled three extra holes and riveted it together with 6 total just for a little extra rigidity. It has three holes in it IIRC. I just wired it into the pressure switch box so it would get 110 whenever the compressor cuts on.

I don't use my compressor every day like some. It's pretty sporadic so knowing when it's due for an oil change can be pretty tricky. Not now.

did the same thing on mine a while ago (2007) and got bitched at that i wired it wrong

 

[WVU Tuba Dale]

Nicest of the 3 compressors at work. Its amazingly quiet.

 

[cj8lvr]

did the same thing on mine a while ago (2007) and got bitched at that i wired it wrong

Wired it wrong?
Does it work?

 

[RAYJAY]

Wired it wrong?
Does it work?

WORKS FINE SOME ABOUT ITS NOT UP TO CODE THAT WAY, MY GUESS IS THEY WOULD WANT IT HOOKED UP TO A RELAY TO ISOLATE I5T FROM THE POWER SUPPLY

jEFF

 

[Steve in Mi]

why



I will never go with copper ever again...... had to many problems the black pipe cools the air much better and $$$$$$$ cheaper also

http://www.tptools.com/StaticText/airline-piping-diagram.pdf


Jeff

Sorry to hear of your problems with copper.

A recent discussion about the cost of iron vs. copper pointed out that it was more a consequence of where you live as to which would cost more.

Black pipe doesn't cool the air better than copper - if it did that would mean iron was a better conductor, it's not.

As for the link, if you ask a Ford dealer about a Chevy don't be surprised if he has less than a glowing report about the competition. The unbiased data on solder joints is available in handbooks - look it up if you have any doubt.

 

[RAYJAY]

Sorry to hear of your problems with copper.

A recent discussion about the cost of iron vs. copper pointed out that it was more a consequence of where you live as to which would cost more.

Black pipe doesn't cool the air better than copper - if it did that would mean iron was a better conductor, it's not.

As for the link, if you ask a Ford dealer about a Chevy don't be surprised if he has less than a glowing report about the competition. The unbiased data on solder joints is available in handbooks - look it up if you have any doubt.

sorry but your not looking for the pipe to be "better conductor" you want the pipe to stay cold as long as possible, "hence the reason you run a chiller on your air lines" the faster the pipe heats up the less it pulls the water out of the compressed air, so the black pipe not transferring the heat as quick is better i ran copper in my last shop thinking it was better but it sucked.....

had the same layout i have now the moisture was unstoppable but the copper did get warm really quickly , the black pipe i have now does not ever get even warm but my main drop does collect tons of water, and I'm running more load now on my system than i did on the copper one, run copper if you want for looks or if your not going to use the system hard as for me will never use copper again on any air system i install, got burned once never again.........


and its not the install or cost factor I'm looking at its the performance of the system I'm looking at


Jeff

 

[rinny_tin_tin]

Nicest of the 3 compressors at work. Its amazingly quiet.

Its a rotary vane compressor - the nicest,quietest and most expensive - about 3X

 

[Steve in Mi]

sorry but your not looking for the pipe to be "better conductor" you want the pipe to stay cold as long as possible, "hence the reason you run a chiller on your air lines" the faster the pipe heats up the less it pulls the water out of the compressed air, so the black pipe not transferring the heat as quick is better i ran copper in my last shop thinking it was better but it sucked.....

Jeff

If you want to cool the air, i.e., condence the moisture out, you want the highest heat transfer rate possible. That requires use of materials with the highest thermo conductivity weither it be to external room air or water, such as in the case of a chiller. Copper transfers heat better than iron - it's a fact - so it extracts the btu's from the compressed air better than iron. Will iron pipe transfer the btu's necessary to cool the compressed air, YES it is possible, but at a slower rate than copper. It might just turn out that your iron pipe run is too short to give it the added time required to cool and avoid water in your paint or tools. Remember traps and filters are good for removing water but if the air is still HOT (relative term) it carries moisture until it reaches the dew point.

The very fact that the iron pipe is staying cooler, longer (your words) - Is proof positive it is not transferring the btu's as fast so the compressed air isn't cooling as fast as it could or would if it was flowing in a copper pipe. It's straight HEAT TRANSFER, no magic, no smoke and mirrors, no seconary oats.

 

[RAYJAY]

If you want to cool the air, i.e., condence the moisture out, you want the highest heat transfer rate possible. That requires use of materials with the highest thermo conductivity weither it be to external room air or water, such as in the case of a chiller. Copper transfers heat better than iron - it's a fact - so it extracts the btu's from the compressed air better than iron. Will iron pipe transfer the btu's necessary to cool the compressed air, YES it is possible, but at a slower rate than copper. It might just turn out that your iron pipe run is too short to give it the added time required to cool and avoid water in your paint or tools. Remember traps and filters are good for removing water but if the air is still HOT (relative term) it carries moisture until it reaches the dew point.

The very fact that the iron pipe is staying cooler, longer (your words) - Is proof positive it is not transferring the btu's as fast so the compressed air isn't cooling as fast as it could or would if it was flowing in a copper pipe. It's straight HEAT TRANSFER, no magic, no smoke and mirrors, no seconary oats.

ok if we use the idea you have .......................... then why does a cold window sweat when there moisture in the room ..... I'm not TRYING TO TRANSFER THE THE BTU'S AT A FAST RATE ..(your words ) the black pipe works like a cold glass or metal would when warm moist air hits it you get condensation and if you don't know ..........
(Condensation is the process by which water vapor in the air is changed into liquid water.) which is what your trying to do with the compressed air.

if the pipe gets warm (TRANSFER THE THE BTU'S )you get no water collected no magic, no smoke and mirrors, just mist out of your system and into your paint

added a picture so it will be simpler for other one to understand ........ the longer the pipe stays colder the more water you pull from the system not the other way around ...............

AS STATED BEFORE I RAN COPPER PIPE ON MY LAST SYSTEM AND PURE AND SIMPLE IT "SUCKED " so I did a lot of research on it talked to a lot of body shops (old school one's )

I did not want to install a chiller, ever one in my area told me to scrap the copper and go steel and you know there were right 100% so who should I believe the guy painting cars for 20 + years or ???????

 

[Steve in Mi]

ok if we use the idea you have .......................... then why does a cold window sweat when there moisture in the room ..... I'm not TRYING TO TRANSFER THE THE BTU'S AT A FAST RATE ..(your words ) the black pipe works like a cold glass or metal would when warm moist air hits it you get condensation and if you don't know ..........
(Condensation is the process by which water vapor in the air is changed into liquid water.) which is what your trying to do with the compressed air.

Short answer is that there were enough btu's transfered from the moisture laiden warmer air to the colder (relative) glass such that the air temperature near/at the glass reached the dew point at which water vapor is no longer supported and condences out on the surface of the glass.

There must be heat transfer in order for the hot compressed air temperature to be lowered so the dew point is reached and water is condenced out. Copper pipe being a better thermo conductor than iron can facilitate the heat transfer more efficiently.