Compression - Show Off Your Compressor

[Fubar]

fubar,

Check this thread and let me know what you think...

hotrodders.com and Eaton

Interesting and depressing all at the same time. I've had nothing but good luck with his products, and have seen nothing but good from other that have bought them. If it all rings true it's deceitful for all the wrong reasons. Results speaks for themselves..

 

[Zrexxer]

The shame is that by all accounts, they build a decent compressor. But the whole issue of trying to use intimidation, smoke, and mirrors to build their reputation always stuck in my craw.

 

[GeorgiaHybrid]

I'm not saying that he builds a bad compressor, quite the opposite, as I know several people that own them and they work VERY well. If you look at the pictures on his site however, he is doing exactly what he stated in the letter. The tank has an American flag sticker, the motor/pump mount base has an American flag sticker, etc. Every part that IS American made has an American flag. The pump is not flying a flag however....

What he has is a compressor that, in truth, should be labeled "Assembled in America from global components". At the very least, he should put that label on ONE flag symbol instead of pasting flags everywhere.

 

[Winneratalosinggame]

when doing ac work do you use tin lead solder or silver solder ?

also 20 ft of black pipe us made is $29.00 the copper is 46

Jeff

I have worked in shops with PVC, Black Iron, and Copper, They all have drawbacks, Copper is best, Silver soldered, However Air, like water will wear the inside of pipe thin over time from friction. Black Iron is best, However you must remain diligent about draining water from tank, hopefully running a Dryer with water separator. otherwise rust will build up inside that will flake off and enter tools damaging tools. PVC will work however it will weaken over time as well as become brittle.

 

[Mickey_D]

Another thing to watch with on PVC is UV degradation. Even reflected sunlight can cause serious problems in less time than you think, not to even factor in UV from any welding in the area.

 

[GmasterK]

My compressor is about 15 years old but just recently dropped into this spot. Rubber mounted and bolted to the floor makes it much quieter than it was in years past. Looking to add this soon... www.garage-pak.com and expand my air locations around the shop.
(fun to see everyone's AC's)

 

[Vinko]

Interesting and depressing all at the same time.

I read this a while ago and, if it's true, thought it the same.

 

[Vinko]

I'm not saying that he builds a bad compressor, quite the opposite, as I know several people that own them and they work VERY well. If you look at the pictures on his site however, he is doing exactly what he stated in the letter. The tank has an American flag sticker, the motor/pump mount base has an American flag sticker, etc. Every part that IS American made has an American flag. The pump is not flying a flag however....

What he has is a compressor that, in truth, should be labeled "Assembled in America from global components". At the very least, he should put that label on ONE flag symbol instead of pasting flags everywhere.

Maybe he is following the letter of the law, but in general, what I've noticed in other cases (and I'm not necessarily suggesting this is the case here because I read through that thread and considered his site quite a while ago), is that there's the potential for consumer confusion -- a sort of ambiguity is set up here and I personally wouldn't do it.


Also, one other thing: on that "disclosure form": something can be "made" in the USA -- (Not to get Clinton on anyone, but, uh, "define" "made" ), but might have raw materials from other countries.

I know guys who "make" USA-made products but that just means they buy their steel from China or Brazil or wherever, and then import it to the US and turn it on their lathe or machine some other way. Then it's "Made in USA." Keeps costs down.

 

[MP&C]

Well I own the Eaton pictured back a page, and can say I haven't had a minutes problem out of it. Now, having said that, what I've read about the use of the American flag on his product to me is just a marketing ploy, to lead you to believe it is all made in America. The disclosure form looks exactly like what was said above, damage control. So now you place American flags on everything made in USA, and no flag elsewhere? If Matt were totally up front with this, he would also use a Chinese flag (or wherever the source is) on the other components. But by only using the American flag, he still is promoting the illusion to those unaware otherwise that no foreign parts are in his compressor. Amounts to nothing more than Shady business practice in my book. But I do still like my compressor.

 

[drewski]

I recently replaced my Dayton Speedaire compressor after over 32 years of service in my shop. With regular maintenance, it has served me well, with no mechanical problems.

I found an 80 gal. vertical 2 stage Quincy for sale that had about 1 year of use supplying spray booth air in a small body shop. The shop was going out of business so I picked it up for a fair price compared to new. I expect this to be the last compressor I will ever need.

With the poor economy that we have faced over this past year, there are a lot of good deals showing up on good brand name compressors.


Drewski

 

[cnc-me]

Here is our Air Force - 3
Primary Compressor- Windy Worthy
Worthington 20 H.P. 1940's-ish, converted from an engine drive unit in 1984.
The tanks are 60 & 80 gallon Saylor-Beall rejects.
SB cuts out the tag on their reject tanks with a torch to stop
people from reclaiming them.
I welded a piece of 1/4" flatstock to plug the holes.
This unit has run almost everyday for the past 25+ years with very little problems. Pump size is 6 X 3-1/2 X 4" Stroke.
Forced oil and still holds around 30 psi.

Backup Compressor-
Ingersoll Rand Type 30 5 H.P.
Date on tank says 1968, and its never been painted, just factory primer.
Has a watercooled after cooler thats not currently hooked up to
a water source.

Compressor #3-
Located in another building, but plumbed into the main system.
Quincy QT-5 5 H.P.
Special prototype breathable air unit.
We have never used the breathable filter unit,
just run it as a standard air compressor. Only 237 hours on this one.
And yes, that is a real tag, no computer magic here.

 

[skeletonizer]

 

[Tom2]

Just delivered today:

Hope to be able to run it tonight..

 

[Nightshift]

Has anyone tried Polyurethane autobody lift pucks, like they use on jeeps and trucks for more tire clearance, to mount their compressor on? Ive never seen one break under the stress I put on my jeep. I was thinking they should last a lot longer than hockey pucks and wondered whether or not anyone has thought of this or has tried it.

I don't think you need to worry about wearing out hockey puck feet ... I'm still on the same set I put under mine over 30 years ago ... and they still look brand new! I expect them to last longer than my lifetime ... and they essentially cost nothing.

 

[walrus]

Its an old Wayne, Got it wired up and it fired right up. But I shut it off and now it just hums. Not sure if the centrifugal switch is bad or the Caps are bad or what. Probably have to take it to a motor shop and get it checked. I can see where mice have been in it. I took the belts off to make sure it wasn't loaded and it still just sat there and hummed.

Got my motor back from the motor shop, as I thought bad centrifugal switch and new bearings. 115 bucks, not bad if you ask me. Got it installed and it pumps air, yea

 

[nolatoolguy]

80 Gallon 2 stage in the Attic with a remote air filter mounted outside = very quiet.

Wow man, i love that set up

 

[jclars]

Since this thread is what led me to this fine site, I better post here first! I just condemned the 65 year old compressor at our HVAC shop as the fellows claimed it was running continuously and tripping breakers. How convenient. I went ahead and purchased a new one for the shop and the old Devilbiss 330 came home with me! Did I mention I'm gearing up to paint an old MGA coupe that resides in my shop? HA!

Excuse the temporary wiring, but guess what? I have not been able to make the beast fail on me! I tinkered with the pressure switch which also looks vintage. I got it to go from 105 psi off to 116 psi and it seems to have even more to go. I measured amps at start and finish and never exceeded 10. The motor is rated at 14. However, it took a good 10 minutes to fill from 0 psi to 116 psi. Also, went from ~70 psi to 105 psi in 2.5 minutes.

Two questions - is that fill rate excessive? Anyone know how to raise the lower end of the pressure switch. I raised it by screwing the little nut CW. Do I mess with that big nut over the spring?

Great forum. Cant wait to explore!

John Larsen

 

[jclars]

The newbie needs help to remember to post the pics.

 

[wineslob]

Since this thread is what led me to this fine site, I better post here first! I just condemned the 65 year old compressor at our HVAC shop as the fellows claimed it was running continuously and tripping breakers. How convenient. I went ahead and purchased a new one for the shop and the old Devilbiss 330 came home with me! Did I mention I'm gearing up to paint an old MGA coupe that resides in my shop? HA!

Excuse the temporary wiring, but guess what? I have not been able to make the beast fail on me! I tinkered with the pressure switch which also looks vintage. I got it to go from 105 psi off to 116 psi and it seems to have even more to go. I measured amps at start and finish and never exceeded 10. The motor is rated at 14. However, it took a good 10 minutes to fill from 0 psi to 116 psi. Also, went from ~70 psi to 105 psi in 2.5 minutes.
Two questions - is that fill rate excessive? Anyone know how to raise the lower end of the pressure switch. I raised it by screwing the little nut CW. Do I mess with that big nut over the spring?

Great forum. Cant wait to explore!

John Larsen

Sounds like it might need a re-ring and new valves/seats. Probably not too expensive.
Watch the adjustment on the unloader. Those old ones sometimes don't like being messed with. Usually there's a diagram on the inside of the cover of the unloader, if it has one. One screw will be the high cut-out and the other will be the load/unload range.


*edit*

I think the big spring will be max pressure and the smaller one on the right will be the pressure range. I'd leave the range alone and try the max pressure, but I wouldent go beyond 120 psi. Those old pumps were not designed to operate at higher pressures.

 

[jclars]

Thanks wineslob, with your input, I was able to post a more intelligent search on Google and came up with a water pump tutorial on setting a spring activated pressure switch:

http://www.inspectapedia.com/water/WaterPumpAdjust.htm

You had it about right, the large spring sets the range and the small spring the gap, or how wide the pressure range will be. With only turning the small nut, I was simply widening the gap to get my high end pressure, while the low end stayed the same. This should get me headed in the right direction safely. And also will tell me if the beast is not too tired to get the job done before rebuilding it. I have luckily found a source for rings and valves, so I should be in good shape.

BTW - what is the typical cut-in/cut-out range?

thanks again!

 

[djkyle65]

is there any compressor setup that is 100% made in usa?

 

[Steve in Mi]

Might try Saylor Beall

http://www.saylor-beall.com/home.php

 

[wineslob]

Thanks wineslob, with your input, I was able to post a more intelligent search on Google and came up with a water pump tutorial on setting a spring activated pressure switch:

http://www.inspectapedia.com/water/WaterPumpAdjust.htm

You had it about right, the large spring sets the range and the small spring the gap, or how wide the pressure range will be. With only turning the small nut, I was simply widening the gap to get my high end pressure, while the low end stayed the same. This should get me headed in the right direction safely. And also will tell me if the beast is not too tired to get the job done before rebuilding it. I have luckily found a source for rings and valves, so I should be in good shape.

BTW - what is the typical cut-in/cut-out range?

thanks again!

I like to run compressors on the "tight" side. If the max pressure is 120 I run the high cutout at about 115, and the cut-in at 100 psi. That way you keep the compressor in it's max efficiency range. If you look at the cfm ratings of most compressors they do best at around 90-100 psi.

 

[p1mlb03]

I will add my compressor to this amazing collection. Here is my Kellog American Compressor that was just recently installed. It produces 20cfm @ 100 PSI. I also installed an after cooler that really works well. The cooler is plumbed so that the air leaving the pump head passes through the cooler first and then on to the water seperator where most of the condensed moisture is removed before it is pumped to the tank. The cooler is very efficient, you can not touch the inlet side for more than a split second and the outlet side is cold to the touch. The fan on the after cooler is wired through the contactor in the mag starter so it cycles with the compressor. The tank bleeder is the same type used on truck air brakes. The small rope you see in the pic is connected to the valve in the tank, just pull the rope to bleed off any moisture in the tank. No standing on your head to drain the tank. I get almost no moisture in the tank, never see any under the compressor after I open the valve. I plumbed the shop with 1" type L copper for the mains and used 1/2" to the drops with valves at each drop, brazing each joint with silver solder.

<a href="http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y135/vansnxtweek/Mobile%20Uploads/2355/?action=view&current=PICT0076.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y135/vansnxtweek/Mobile%20Uploads/2355/PICT0076.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Water seperator with auto drain installed just after the cooler.

The frame that I built to hang the after cooler

The frame with the cooler installed

My filter dryer set up

 

[94cobra2615]

Here's my compressor I just brought home a couple weeks back for my new shop.

Specs:
7.5hp, 28 cfm @ 100psi, max 175psi, 4 cylinder 2 stage, 80 gallon, automatic tank drain, 3/4 outlet

Compressor only turns 600 rpm. It's so quiet you can talk on a cell phone right beside it.

 

[Vinko]

is there any compressor setup that is 100% made in usa?

Like Steve in Mi, I'll add Saylor Beall, which I have, a 7.5HP 120 gal. model. Vertical tank. I don't know if other makers are also 100%.
Come to think of it, I don't know if Saylor Beall is either. I assume it is, but in today's economy, it's hard to tell if some parts aren't sourced from offshore.




@ p1mlb03: nice set up. I couldn't ID from the photos the brand of filter/water separator. What are they and how do you like them? Also, what size inlets?

 

[930dreamer]

p1mlb03

Who did you buy the after cooler from? What cfm is it rated for?

Very nice set up. 930

 

[ry57pont]

I got this gem for free, came out of a metal fab company they said it wouldent build pressure. replaced the 3ph motor and fired it up. the only thing wrong was a broken needle on the pressure gauge. it has a quincy compressor.

 

[vdubnluvn]

prevost lines , divilbiss refrig, tsunami 2 stage traps, ir single stage 5hp 80 gallon, i chose the single stage because it offers more cfm output than the 2 stage for alot less money. i over work it at times, had it about 3.5 years now, only problem was a cracked pipe which cost $8 to fix.


i have a 3 phase bellair 10 hp in storage hoping ill trip over a single stage motor one day.

 

[94cobra2615]

is there any compressor setup that is 100% made in usa?

My compressor above pretty much is. The only thing that isn't is the electric motor and pump. Motor is a WEG and is made in Brazil I think, but it's a top of the line motor.

I picked the compressor up where they make them.

It's assembled by EATON compressors in eaton, ohio.
Their compressors rock and have a 5 year warranty.

 

[p1mlb03]

@ p1mlb03: nice set up. I couldn't ID from the photos the brand of filter/water separator. What are they and how do you like them? Also, what size inlets?[/QUOTE]

Vinko,
Thanks, they are PnexMasterAir filters. I bought them through HTP. They are 1/2" inlets. I have only had them a few months and so far so good. The HTP catalog shows the desiccant filter being 1 qt, but they are now selling the 2qt for the same price. It comes as pictured, assembled ready to go with the exception of the gauge, you have to install. HTP calls this the Max Dry and it sells for $330. I couldn't put together a better system for less. HTP is great to work with, they have great service. We have had an HTP welder at the race shop since the early 90's and have always had good service from them. I have a Miller welder and plasma (the main reason for all the aftercooler and dryer filters) at my house, but I would not hesitate to buy an HTP. I have the HTP catalog in PDF, if you would like to have a copy PM the email address.

Mike

 

[p1mlb03]

p1mlb03

Who did you buy the after cooler from? What cfm is it rated for?

Very nice set up. 930

930,
Thanks, I picked up the aftercooler from Grainger for $105, a deal for sure. They were a discontinued item and were marked down from $450. If you have an account or know anyone with an account they may be able to find one on a shelf somewhere. I know one other member here on GJ was able to get one as well. They shipped mine from the NE to my door for $123. This cooler was like it was made just for my machine, it is rated for 20cfm @ 250psi.

Here is the thread that I started for the aftercooler. I just checked the link to Grainger in that thread and it is still active. It says you cant order online, but dont let that stop you from calling. If you get someone that doesn't want to dig, call back another time or call another location. You will get someone who wants to help you at some point.
Mike

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50946

 

[jpoe]

I got this gem for free, came out of a metal fab company they said it wouldent build pressure. replaced the 3ph motor and fired it up. the only thing wrong was a broken needle on the pressure gauge. it has a quincy compressor.

Sweet score!

 

[94cobra2615]

Yeah, umm.. not really.

I stand corrected. I missed the eaton controversy thread on here.....just found and read it. Post changed above.

Eaton Says:
"We use international compressor pumps built in one of our own factories. This is why you see "EATON" in our castings. (the majority of our piston-type unit's components are made here in the USA)"

LOL have to read the fine print better.......it doesn't say WHERE the factory is (CHINA lol) And the majority of the Components are made in USA

 

[Vinko]

I stand corrected. I missed the eaton controversy thread on here.....just found and read it. Post changed above.

Eaton Says:
"We use international compressor pumps built in one of our own factories. This is why you see "EATON" in our castings. (the majority of our piston-type unit's components are made here in the USA)"

LOL have to read the fine print better.......it doesn't say WHERE the factory is (CHINA lol) And the majority of the Components are made in USA

So they "own" the factory in China, eh? Not likely as Americans can't have full ownership of any factory in China, last time I checked. Further, anyone can spec their name in a casting. Doesn't mean anything related to "our" factory.

Haven't seen their compressors and don't have an opinion. Merely commenting upon the marketing lingo which doesn't give credit to any careful reader of it.

 

[GeorgiaHybrid]

I stand corrected. I missed the eaton controversy thread on here.....just found and read it. Post changed above.

Can you do me a favor? Take a close look at your compressor and count the number of US flags and their location on your compressor and let us know? Just looking at your compressor, the pump, motor and mag starter are not USA made (no sticker) but I am curious about the tank.

They were using USA made tanks and I would like to know if they are still using that source (an ASME tank will have a welded on tag with the maker and spec on it). By the way, the two stickers that you can see below the pump and motor are for the mount welded to the top of the tank for them to bolt to.

 

[54FordPanel]

Yeah, umm.. not really. Eaton's pumps are made in China, and after that news broke their owner has been trying to direct attention away from that fact by pasting flag stickers all over the parts that ARE sourced in the US. It may technically meet the letter of the law but it's misleading and IMO shady.

Champion compressors are 100% made in the USA.

I bought a Champion based on that. But it came with a cheap-*** chinese pressure gauge on it, so I'm suspicious now.............

 

[lethal-6]

Product Disclosure Form


To compare "apples to apples" on where a product is made can be very challenging. We have attached a Product Disclosure Form that you can print off and take to your air compressor providers to have them complete so you will know where the product and its components are manufactured. Just because you see the American Flag sticker on the front of the unit does not mean it was actually made in the USA. There are many factors that you need to be aware of before purchasing a unit. 1. Where the parts were manufactured? 2. Warranty? 3. What are the replacement parts going to cost for the unit you are purchasing? We have seen 5 HP compressor pumps that are over $1,000.00 for a rebuild kit. We use international compressor pumps built in one of our own factories. This is why you see "EATON" in our castings. One out of every 100 compressors is built in the USA. We strive to give Americans jobs (the majority of our piston-type unit's components are made here in the USA) but have to also keep PREMIUM quality at a reasonable price with a 5-YEAR BUMPER-TO BUMPER Warranty on all parts - NOT PRO-RATED!!! Our quality and price is the best on the market. Our goal is to beat our competition name-brand and non-name brand. Have your compressor company complete this form and if you have any questions about what they have filled out on the form, you can call me personally.

Starting October 28th, 2008, We are putting an American flag sticker on the items that are made in the USA. For example, our tanks are made in the USA, So we have placed an American Flag Sticker on the tank that states this tank is manufactured in the USA. These stickers will be placed on every item that is made in the USA. This gives the consumer a clear direction when purchasing our compressor on how much of the complete unit is made in the USA.

I can only think of 2 companies that build compressors here in the USA.

Ultimately, we encourage our customers and potential customers to compare our product to any product in the industry. You the buyer, should know exactly what you are buying and from whom you are buying it from.

Sincere Regards,



Matt Cain

President/CEO






PRODUCT DISCLOSURE FORM





1. Where is the compressor pump manufactured? International or USA? What is the Model Number?

2. Where is the pump assembled? International or USA? What is the Model Number?

3. Where is the tank manufactured? International or USA?

4. Is the tank ASME Certified?

5. Where is the electric motor manufactured? International or USA? What is the Model Number?

6. Where is the electric motor assembled? International or USA? What is the Model Number?

7. Where is the motor pulley manufactured? International or USA? What is the make of the pulley?

8. Where are the belts manufactured? International or USA? What is the make of the belts?

9. Where is the check valve manufactured? International or USA?

10. Where is the safety valve manufactured? International or USA?

11. Where is the ball valve manufactured? International or USA?

12. Where is this complete compressor unit final assembly done?

13. Is the compressor pump steel or aluminum connecting rods?

14. Do the connecting rods have replaceable insert bearings in the wrist pin and connecting rod?

15. If the pump is a 2-stage, does it have a steel or aluminum piston?

16. Does the pump have roller bearings or ball bearings for the crankshaft bearings?

17. Does the pump have roller bearings or ball bearings for the crankshaft bearings?

18. Do the cylinders have a sleeve or are they solid cast iron with no aluminum?

19. What is the cylinder head made of? Aluminum or Solid Cast Iron?

20. Are the valves reed valves or disk valves?

21. Can your valves be removed without pulling the cylinder head?

22. If the unit is 2-stage, does the pump have an inter cooler and an after cooler?

23. Is the crankcase aluminum or cast iron?

24. Is the flywheel aluminum or cast iron?

25. How many belts run the unit?

26. What is the pump RPM?

27. What is the motor RPM?

28. What is the CFM?

29. What is the motor service factor?

30. What is the motor frame size? Is it NEMA rated?

31. What is the warranty and is it pro-rated?

32. What is the warranty on the compressor valves? Is it pro-rated?

33. How much is a rebuild kit to rebuild the pump?

34. List any and all options included in the price of the unit.



By signing this, I, ____________________________, acknowledge that the information above is true and correct.

This is from the eaton website. It seems like most people that post that they have them like them. I guess its a matter of preference. Northern tools now has the quincy compressors in the stores if anyone would like to go and look at those if you have a store in your area. Hope this helps.

 

[RbrtAWhyt]

Thats a beefy air compressor. Do you have any weblinks for it? Google isn't cooperating with me...

 

[larry4406]

Why do these threads all seem to degrade into "not made in USA, therefore.....".

Why can't they stay technical?