Compressor Advice Needed

[DerStig]

Hi forum,

I am getting ready to purchase a compressor for our garage. I have been doing a lot of reading and I think it would have to be either Quincy or Champion. In fact, I had settled on QT-54 but then I started reading about splash lubricated vs pressure lubricated as well as pump RPM and noise levels and I am really confused.

Its worth noting I currently use a $299 Homedepot teflon cylinder 175 psi compressor. So when you provide comparisons (especially noise) that is my baseline.

I believe buying once and lasting a life time. So while the price difference between a lower end quincy and a pressure lube quincy or champion is almost 2x, if the quality as well as CFM and noise level differences are going to be different I might decide to go overkill route and buy the pressure lube system.

Unfortunately there is one logistical problem in that my garage door height at 77” is too short to fit these tall 80 gal compressors. I guess I could always tilt and pull but they weigh so much that I dont know how this can be accomplished. I wish they made a 60 gal unit with better motor and pump but seems like 80 gal is standard for those higher end ones.

Also I read somewhere that some of these high end compressors dont do well if you cycle them on and off quickly. They are meant for big shops and compressor running all the time. This brings me to my use case:

- I dont own a shop. This is my personal garage at home.
- Because it is attached garage, noise level is very important.
- It will be used to power things like 4 post lift, scissor jack on 4 post lift, impact wrench, nail gun, spray painting, etc.
- I will also use it for less frequent but more demanding use case of winterizing my sprinklers. I have 16 zones and with the homedepot 175 psi teflon cylinder $300 compressor this is a big chore and takes about 4 hours. Compressor simply cant keep up and I have over 1500 ft of combined piping.
- But it will go days without use and when in use this cycling on and off will happen. I will work on projects where I might spray paint things and run the compressor longer periods but 60-70% of its usage will be car lifts and air tools for car work.

With that said, what do you recommend? Also are these compressors bolted on the floor or can they be placed on something like a 3/4” thick rubber horse stall mat (which is what I use on my basement floor for gym)?

And how much space do you need around the compressor? Can it be installed flush to the wall or do you need to access its back to the maintenance?

Thank you!

 

[GeoBruin]

Pressure lubricated seems overkill for a home shop, especially since these are rated for continuous use anyway. You may run it a lot but you're not a production body shop. It can cycle a lot in the couple hours you're using it but not cycle for days as you mention. That kind of use is well within the capabilities of the machines you posted.

There are many, many stories around here about splash lubricated shop compressors running 30+ years with nothing but routine maintenance. And when issues do occur, it's usually valves that go bad. My compressor was manufactured the year after I was born (1985) and still chugs along.

80 gallon won't make it taller, just wider. 60 gallon units will generally be the same height. So that won't help your garage door situation. You could opt for a horizontal compressor but those take up more floor space, so if I were you, I would just tip it to get it through the door. It will likely come without oil in it so just get it in the door before you put oil in it.

My compressor has a sticker on it that says to leave a foot between the back of the flywheel shroud and the wall to ensure airflow. That may be a bit much if you have plenty of clearance all around, but it's probably a good rule of thumb.

You can bolt it to the floor, but first install vibration dampening feet. The bolts will go through the feet of the compressor, then through the dampening feet, then into the floor. If you don't need to bolt it to the floor, you don't have to, but still install the dampeners. Many people use hockey pucks but if you're not Canadian, it's probably just as easy to order purpose built feet.

You should get the compressor and install it and see how loud it is. There are some tricks like adding an elbow to the intake and even some intake muffler/filters (look up Solberg) that can take the edge off the noise. But, if you decide it's still too loud, you can build a little house for it with some noise dampening material on the inside. Just make sure it's properly vented. Also, install the compressor on the opposite wall from the house if that wasn't obvious.

Good luck!

 

[DXN1EL]

This one has a 15hp pump slowed down to 7.5hp is 66in tall
https://www.ebay.com/itm/BEST-CHAMP...991895?hash=item41794d6e57:g:~B4AAOSw2gxY2Z2M

 

[Doughnuts]

Im in the process of rebuilding a quincy 325. Its probably overkill but i like things thatll last forever. A lot of people selling them dont know what they are and will sell them for nothing. When I saw it running it was almost at max rpm and still it was the quietest piston compressor ive ever heard. You wont get that result from the lower end quincy pumps.

 

[MacMcMacmac]

See what DV Systems compressors are going for in your area. I always seem to forget to recommend them but the HDI line are amongst the toughest compressors ever made.

 

[Jswain]

Going from what you have now the Quincy would be a huge upgrade. Not sure about your area but this is an item that buying used can get you more quality than a new one for a fraction of the price in most cases.

If you can come across a used 5hp 2 stage 80gallon compressor that looks to be in good shape they are mostly built like tanks to survive a lifetime

Not matter what you buy break it in properly as per the manual and when you change out the oil run a good synthetic compressor oil. The rubber mat will be fine to set it on and take care of some of the noise, and like mentioned give it some breathing room at the back so the pulley can cool the pump adequately

 

[GeoBruin]

Going from what you have now the Quincy would be a huge upgrade. Not sure about your area but this is an item that buying used can get you more quality than a new one for a fraction of the price in most cases.

If you can come across a used 5hp 2 stage 80gallon compressor that looks to be in good shape they are mostly built like tanks to survive a lifetime

Not matter what you buy break it in properly as per the manual and when you change out the oil run a good synthetic compressor oil. The rubber mat will be fine to set it on and take care of some of the noise, and like mentioned give it some breathing room at the back so the pulley can cool the pump adequately

If buying used, make sure you check the tank as thoroughly as possible to make sure it isn't rusted nearly through. If there's a large bung near the bottom of the tank, insist that you opened it up and inspect with a flashlight to make sure there's not obvious chunks of metal missing from the bottom of the tank.

Start from zero or from a known pressure and run it up to full pressure and time how long it takes. There are CFM calculators on the web that will allow you to verify you are at least within the realm of expectation as far as the CFM.

Open the drain and make sure water runs clean or at least not bright red out of the bottom of the tank.

Change the oil as soon as you get home.

 

[Troy32323]

I am far from an expert but was in your exact situation a few months ago. I will share what I did and why. I like you used an oil less craftsman 26 gallon compressor for about 12 years. I had 16 sprinkler zones and very long runs. I would have to run my poor compressor for 5 hours straight. It is loud. It sucked. I have no idea how that poor compressor never burnt up. I just moved and now have 20 sprinkler zones and decided I am going to get a bigger compressor. I use it to spray and other stuff but not that often. Sounds silly when you see what I bought and I say it is to blow out the sprinkles but it is awesome. I now blow out the sprinklers in 15 min.

I looked at the same compressors as you but also Saylor Beall. I did months of reading and hundreds of posts and have not seen a single negative comment about SB. They are also the only company I believe that still manufactures their compressors in the USA. The others like Champion just assemble them here.

I was going to get a 60 gallon as I wanted it in the basement so I could use it down there in my wood shop and run pipe into the garage and use it with no noise in the garage. I ended up getting the 80 5hp pressure lubricated PT-VL-735-80. I like you want to buy this compressor and use it for the next 40 years without issues. I read all these reviews from the box store compressors leaking and then having to return them. I am only bringing it down into the basement once.

My compressor is 648 pounds. I took it all apart and brought it down separately so the pump was 200 and the tank 250 etc. it was manageable. I sat it on the small feet pads without bolting it down and it has never moved. I also added the after cooler option to help condense the water out of the air. I also added the magnetic starter so i could control the power from the basement or garage.

It is ridiculously over kill for what I need but the pressure lube was only a $400 difference so why not. It is very quiet compared to my little compressor and I was able to blow out all the sprinklers without stopping once. It was such a good feeling

I also bought the remote for my Hunter sprinkler system which I highly recommend. You can control the zones from anywhere on the property. I hooked up the airline to the sprinklers and then walk around and watch each zone get blown out as I control it with a small remote. Neighbors were definitely confused as to how I was standing there and changing the zones.

 

[DerStig]

I think buying used is not something I will do. This is something I will buy once and never touch it. It will outlive me for sure and as such the risk of buying used to save $1000 is not worth it. Also I have no means to transport something like this and where I live finding/renting trucks, lifting it, etc is just too many headaches.

After posting this thread, I also found out in addition to splash vs pressure, there is also magnetic starters as well as coolers/radiators. This is really complicated.

Is magnetic starter important? I am guessing the cooler radiator isn't that important and more overkill than any other feature.

You guys are right about 60 vs 80 gal dimensions. Most of the difference is on the width not much on the height.

I think I have 2 options : QT or QP.

- The cost of 5 hp QT-54 is much less than other options. This is the only "cheap" option. But you get no magnetic starter. You get a pump that runs 2X faster at 1310 RPM.

- The cost of 7.5 hp QT MAX is same as the cost of 5 hp QP.

- While 7.5 hp sounds nice, it draws 40 amps which is crazy (I have 200 amp service). The only practical issue with this is if the power was to ever go out with my car on the lift or if I have any other need to use a compressor, I could not run it with my portable 10kW generator. We lose power 5-6 times a year on average. Sometimes these outages last a day sometimes 2-3 days.

- The 5hp QP has a 660 RPM pump, magnetic starter, and a pressure lubrication system but the cost is now 2X that of QT-54.

- QT-54 seems like 2X louder than a QP unit.

On a side note, how do you bring that crate inside the garage? Do you tilt it and drag it? Can you put the compressor on its side? Due to the curvature shape of the tank I am guessing a floor jack won't really help. But I think it can be helpful to lift the crate and land the crate on top of a dolly (or more like 2 of them) and use the dollies to move the crate closer to where the compressor will be installed.

I will admit to one silly reason why I am leaning more towards Quincy. Its the color. I like blue. Also my lift is same color and they will match I have nothing green in my garage other than my RS which is a very different green (lizard green).

 

[Troy32323]

I was able to hand truck it into the garage on an angle by myself. Would be better with 2 people but they dropped it off and rain was coming so...

 

[finn]

You are going to need an engine crane, at the least, just to get an 80 gallon compressor off the pallet, let alone into your garage.

I used my skid steer with forks, and then the engine crane to get my Champion into the compressor/boiler room. They are very top heavy, so plan on getting help.

Also, I find the buy once / cry once philosophy somewhat amusing, in general as a sole factor in tool and equipment purchase decisions. You really should include expected duty cycle and hours of use as factors in determining a budget and life expectancy requirements of a compressor. I see a lot of compressors discarded because the tank failed, while the pumps are still good.

 

[Jswain]

Spending that kind of money I wouldn't buy one without a magnetic starter, and I definitely wouldn't buy one that rotates faster than 750rpm as they are very noisy.

The work you are planning on doing is very light duty for a compressor this size so likely anything that you buy will outlast you with basic maintenance but if everytime it kicks in you wish it was quieter that's a long time to live with it!

 

[DerStig]

Spending that kind of money I wouldn't buy one without a magnetic starter, and I definitely wouldn't buy one that rotates faster than 750rpm as they are very noisy.

The work you are planning on doing is very light duty for a compressor this size so likely anything that you buy will outlast you with basic maintenance but if everytime it kicks in you wish it was quieter that's a long time to live with it!

I have looked at the spec sheets for the QT-54 and the more expensive QP unit for comparing noise levels. They are being rated 79 vs 73 db which I m not sure is accurate representation of the noise difference in real life. I dont know if anyone has heard both in real life.

Is there a way to know the start up amps for 7.5 hp units? I have just completed a 125 amp sub panel with oversized 2/0 feeder wire and the compressor will be about 5-6 ft of wire run. But still its a 200A service and I dont know how good the wire is from the street.

Between the 5hp QP and 7.5 hp QT Max, what is better? Is the pressure lube but less power better than higher hp?

 

[Jswain]

I believe 70db is your average room and 85db is where hearing protection is required so the scale is pretty extreme.

I'm unfamiliar with both of those units but it would be almost silly to go 7.5hp for what you require unless you are going to start sandblasting everyday.

 

[GeoBruin]

I have looked at the spec sheets for the QT-54 and the more expensive QP unit for comparing noise levels. They are being rated 79 vs 73 db which I m not sure is accurate representation of the noise difference in real life. I dont know if anyone has heard both in real life.



Is there a way to know the start up amps for 7.5 hp units? I have just completed a 125 amp sub panel with oversized 2/0 feeder wire and the compressor will be about 5-6 ft of wire run. But still its a 200A service and I dont know how good the wire is from the street.



Between the 5hp QP and 7.5 hp QT Max, what is better? Is the pressure lube but less power better than higher hp?

Make sure you understand that perceived noise does not increase linearly with decibel levels. There are reference charts you can look at online that help you compare those decibel numbers to common things. For example, 70 dB is standing in the shower. 80 is an alarm clock.

 

[DerStig]

Make sure you understand that perceived noise does not increase linearly with decibel levels. There are reference charts you can look at online that help you compare those decibel numbers to common things. For example, 70 dB is standing in the shower. 80 is an alarm clock.

Yes very well aware of the logarithmic db scale.

The one I am leaning towards is the 5 hp QP unit that has a slow pump, more cfm, magnetic starter, and pressure lube. https://www.aircompressorsdirect.com/Quincy-351CS80VCB-Air-Compressor/p11489.html

The only thing I cant understand is the 660 rpm pump/1000 rpm motor is producing 73 db whereas the 1400 rpm pump/3450 rpm motor QT-54 is 75 db. This cant be right?

Also, how much clearance to the left and to the right of this compressor would I need? The air filter (gray) thats sideways, does it pull air from away the compressor or towards the other end? Can it be 1/2” away from a wall? How much room would I need from the ball valve to the right, is it enough to attach a 90 degree copper elbow?

I literally have 1” total clearance to the left and right.

 

[Monza Harry]

Anything over 900RPM is no longer a compressor it is more of an air heater with a compression factor! The one you mentioned at 660RPM [someone else mentioned 750RPM those are the compressor sweet spot/range] is a compressor that will make air efficiently, and at a noise level you can live with. Someone mentioned bolting it down, probably not necessary but not bad either, just remember that you will require absorption under the bolt head and over the foot [Rubber above and below the foot for optimum noise abatement]. I have an older T30 IR it is in the 500-600 lbs. range and my brother and I lifted it out of my trailer [about 15" IIRC] with some help from Dad, and I walked it into the garage slowly taking breaks as it is very top heavy and will surprise you VERY QUICKLY if you don't have a good plan, so pace yourself. For the feet, dedicated vibration pads are $$$pricey. It was suggested to me to try some bumper pads from the marine section, while I haven't actually installed them yet at ~$5 a piece they look like a pretty good choice. I feel for your intermittent use pressure lube will be a bad idea, as your pump will be running dry until the pump fills the lube circuit, better after that, but much damage can happen in a few seconds of dry running three times a month for years. Splash one revolution and she's wet! This is my take on that, based more on cars that sit a lot, the cold starts wreak havoc on the lower ends and the rings/bore and less on compressors but these are similar scenarios . I hope this helps, Harry

 

[ZRX61]

My compressor has a sticker on it that says to leave a foot between the back of the flywheel shroud and the wall to ensure airflow. That may be a bit much if you have plenty of clearance all around, but it's probably a good rule of thumb.

Not an issue if you have it set up so it's 90deg to the wall which is how mine is. Compressor is maybe 3in from the wall

 

[DerStig]

Anything over 900RPM is no longer a compressor it is more of an air heater with a compression factor! The one you mentioned at 660RPM [someone else mentioned 750RPM those are the compressor sweet spot/range] is a compressor that will make air efficiently, and at a noise level you can live with. Someone mentioned bolting it down, probably not necessary but not bad either, just remember that you will require absorption under the bolt head and over the foot [Rubber above and below the foot for optimum noise abatement]. I have an older T30 IR it is in the 500-600 lbs. range and my brother and I lifted it out of my trailer [about 15" IIRC] with some help from Dad, and I walked it into the garage slowly taking breaks as it is very top heavy and will surprise you VERY QUICKLY if you don't have a good plan, so pace yourself. For the feet, dedicated vibration pads are $$$pricey. It was suggested to me to try some bumper pads from the marine section, while I haven't actually installed them yet at ~$5 a piece they look like a pretty good choice. I feel for your intermittent use pressure lube will be a bad idea, as your pump will be running dry until the pump fills the lube circuit, better after that, but much damage can happen in a few seconds of dry running three times a month for years. Splash one revolution and she's wet! This is my take on that, based more on cars that sit a lot, the cold starts wreak havoc on the lower ends and the rings/bore and less on compressors but these are similar scenarios . I hope this helps, Harry

This point about pressure lube and not running continuously is not something I thought about. Most of my use case will be short runs and cycling it on and off.

 

[MacMcMacmac]

Anything over 3hp needs a mag starter in my opinion.

I wouldn't be too hung up on pressure lube for this type of use. I'd go splash lube and perhaps pony up for a low oil shutoff switch for peace of mind.

I'd take a QT-5 parallel twin over a QR based on videos I've seen of the QR running.

Jenny also makes nice blue compressors, just saying! Very high quality.

 

[rider]

I am far from an expert but was in your exact situation a few months ago. I will share what I did and why. I like you used an oil less craftsman 26 gallon compressor for about 12 years. I had 16 sprinkler zones and very long runs. I would have to run my poor compressor for 5 hours straight. It is loud. It sucked. I have no idea how that poor compressor never burnt up. I just moved and now have 20 sprinkler zones and decided I am going to get a bigger compressor. I use it to spray and other stuff but not that often. Sounds silly when you see what I bought and I say it is to blow out the sprinkles but it is awesome. I now blow out the sprinklers in 15 min.

I looked at the same compressors as you but also Saylor Beall. I did months of reading and hundreds of posts and have not seen a single negative comment about SB. They are also the only company I believe that still manufactures their compressors in the USA. The others like Champion just assemble them here.

I was going to get a 60 gallon as I wanted it in the basement so I could use it down there in my wood shop and run pipe into the garage and use it with no noise in the garage. I ended up getting the 80 5hp pressure lubricated PT-VL-735-80. I like you want to buy this compressor and use it for the next 40 years without issues. I read all these reviews from the box store compressors leaking and then having to return them. I am only bringing it down into the basement once.

I love the “Made in USA” on the side of my Saylor Beall compressor. I wanted to support a company that actually manufactures in the US. I have nothing but compliments for it. It’s quiet, solid, and very nicely built. The pricing is very competitive when you figure in the free freight/delivery offered by most dealers. I see 50 year old Saylor Beall compressors for sale from time to time, and they still work, so I have very high confidence I’ll get a lifetime’s use out of this one.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

I am far from an expert but was in your exact situation a few months ago. I will share what I did and why. I like you used an oil less craftsman 26 gallon compressor for about 12 years. I had 16 sprinkler zones and very long runs. I would have to run my poor compressor for 5 hours straight. It is loud. It sucked. I have no idea how that poor compressor never burnt up. I just moved and now have 20 sprinkler zones and decided I am going to get a bigger compressor. I use it to spray and other stuff but not that often. Sounds silly when you see what I bought and I say it is to blow out the sprinkles but it is awesome. I now blow out the sprinklers in 15 min.

it probably didn't burn up because to blow out a sprinkler system you need mostly flow, not pressure. my little CAT air tools unit says max on 1hr, but i'm sure it would go longer if you slapped a fan on it.

i wouldn't be surprised if you could blow out a sprinkler system with a regenerative blower. even a dinky little one moves 30cfm.

 

[seber]

In my previous shop I found a 25 hp compressor with a bad motor at an auction. Bought it for a couple hundred and put a five hp motor on it with appropriate pulley. It made air as fast as any five hp unit but you could barely hear it run. At that low rpm it will likely last well into the next century.

 

[DerStig]

Anything over 3hp needs a mag starter in my opinion.

I wouldn't be too hung up on pressure lube for this type of use. I'd go splash lube and perhaps pony up for a low oil shutoff switch for peace of mind.

I'd take a QT-5 parallel twin over a QR based on videos I've seen of the QR running.

Jenny also makes nice blue compressors, just saying! Very high quality.

Which videos are you referring to?

Isnt the 3450/1450 rpm a problem with these QT compressors? Thats a massive difference of almost 2.5x more rpm.

Also a question about the install. The engine crane idea is a problem because my ceiling at 89” and more importantly 78” where the compressor will be installed (there is hvac duct work on that spot) it will make it impossible to fit an engine crane.

Is it possible/easy to disassemble and remove the motor/belt/etc and move the tank first and install rest there?

 

[GeoBruin]

Which videos are you referring to?



Isnt the 3450/1450 rpm a problem with these QT compressors? Thats a massive difference of almost 2.5x more rpm.



Also a question about the install. The engine crane idea is a problem because my ceiling at 89” and more importantly 78” where the compressor will be installed (there is hvac duct work on that spot) it will make it impossible to fit an engine crane.



Is it possible/easy to disassemble and remove the motor/belt/etc and move the tank first and install rest there?

You can definitely take the pump off and reassemble. The pump is the tall/heavy part. Usually the pump has single bolt holes in the saddle and it's the motor that's installed in slots so if you can keep the motor on it, you won't even need to adjust the belt tension when you get it back together.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

one of the advantages of the QP/QR models vs the QT models is that they have a listed minimum RPM. basically so long as you provide it enough RPM for the oil pump to provide enough flow to hold pressure it's good. I believe the QP-75 I have is rated for a nice wide 500-1000RPM. I plan on driving it with a VFD at some point to reduce cycling.

 

[PT Doc]

I went QT5. 80g 5hp. Baldor motor. I’m happy after 8+ years.

 

[DerStig]

I went QT5. 80g 5hp. Baldor motor. I’m happy after 8+ years.

What is the difference between QT5 and QT54?

Also can I ask a favor from you? Can you measure the width of the widest area of the compressor? Is it 37" like the product pages say or 32" like their product drawings indicate? I have a tight space (around 34") I dont know if these compressors will fit there or if I need to find another place.