Ferrino
Well-known member
Thanks, yes I found a "slow" type fuse in 0.5A at Radioshack.
You do wonder if anyone has asked for a slow blow for their pecker head.
Compressor after cooler
- Thread starter p1mlb03
- Start date
You do wonder if anyone has asked for a slow blow for their pecker head.
This is a great thread.
I get the general idea of how to hook up an aftercooler but need some help on what exactly to purchase. I'm confused between Hayden, BM AKG, etc.
We have an Atlas-Copco KT7.5 two-stage compressor.
I'm more of a novice at these kinds of things and need suggestions.
The compressor is used mostly for woodworking tools (sanders, nail guns and for pneumatic solenoid controls on a wide belt sander and venturi cooling jet on a cnc router. The longest runtime we might use the compressor for is maybe 45-60 minutes at a time.
I get the general idea of how to hook up an aftercooler but need some help on what exactly to purchase. I'm confused between Hayden, BM AKG, etc.
We have an Atlas-Copco KT7.5 two-stage compressor.
I'm more of a novice at these kinds of things and need suggestions.
The compressor is used mostly for woodworking tools (sanders, nail guns and for pneumatic solenoid controls on a wide belt sander and venturi cooling jet on a cnc router. The longest runtime we might use the compressor for is maybe 45-60 minutes at a time.
toplessHO
Well-known member
anyone have plans for a Franzinator?
I have 2 inch galv pipe and a few fittings
would like to try and make something to help with moisture control
until I can redo my lines and add an aftercooler.
I have 2 inch galv pipe and a few fittings
would like to try and make something to help with moisture control
until I can redo my lines and add an aftercooler.
AP514
Well-known member
You can look in my Albums and see the one I made. Note use a round cap on bottom instead of the T that way exactly a 5Lbs can will fill the dryer.
www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=131919&page=6 post #109 and below
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kapster
Well-known member
I did a good amount of sandblasting and painting yesterday, first I've used the compressor heavily since I put the AKG on. Definitely makes a difference. I still got a lot of moisture draining out of the tank but it seems to stop there instead of going in the line. The copper line between my cooler and the water separator has discolored from heat, but from the separator to the tank is still bright copper. Tank stayed cool, so it seems the air is still cooling when it hits the water separator and by the time its in the tank its cool and condenses. If id put a fan I think i'd get more water in the separator and less in the tank, but its much better than how it was.
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StupendousMan
New member
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2018
- Messages
- 1
Quick question, well 2. First, if I run a line from my pump to the aftercooler is it OK if the line goes up. (worried moisture will run back into the pump from the line being about the pump.
Like this:
Second, is it OK for a 90 off the outlet of the pump? It is pointing down and need it to go towards the motor
Like this:
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Second, is it OK for a 90 off the outlet of the pump? It is pointing down and need it to go towards the motor
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BCreekDave
Well-known member
Air coming out of the pump has hot water vapor, no liquid water so nothing can drain into pump.
A 90 out of the pump is ok as long as it is sized correctly. It should be a minimum port size of the outlet size from the pump.
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aussieblake
Active member
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2013
- Messages
- 34
What tubing does Quincy use on a QT-5 unit?
Thanks
Thanks
patdown
New member
Which style of cooler would be better, this Derale 15300 Tube and Fin Cooler Core which is a 16 pass tube and fin style cooler or the style in post 406?
Sorry, a newbie. Won't let me post link or pict.
Sorry, a newbie. Won't let me post link or pict.
bing98
Member
Has anyone considered using a water to air heat exchanger like those found on Ebay for heating systems? They are very reasonably priced. I have found them rated from 175psi to 300psi. For the same or less money that a Derale or B&M cooler you can get a larger unit. Size matters, right?
They don't come with fittings and usually require a 1" to 3/4 NPT sweat fitting.
Here is an example:
They don't come with fittings and usually require a 1" to 3/4 NPT sweat fitting.
Here is an example:
BCreekDave
Well-known member
With chilled water it may potentially work better. The water source would be the cost issue. An “open” total loss system using tap water in a non-recirc system would be expensive unless your water supply is unusually cheap (pond?). A closed loop system with enough capacity would be expensive to construct. I think I would just go with a refrigerated aftercooler system. These can be had for -1000 for most small systems.
Or did you mean just the cost of the cooler is better and to use with a fan? If so, it may not be as efficient as a designed air-to-air cooler. The piping may not be correct. Hard to say really. Actually surprised as to it being cheaper as the materials and build process is the same.
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Or did you mean just the cost of the cooler is better and to use with a fan? If so, it may not be as efficient as a designed air-to-air cooler. The piping may not be correct. Hard to say really. Actually surprised as to it being cheaper as the materials and build process is the same.
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bing98
Member
I would add a fan. All of the coolers suggested and used so far are liquid to air heater exchangers like the one I suggested so it should work. Just thought I would throw it out there as a better value.
patdown, I was looking at the 15300 too. looks like a good choice. If it doesn't cool the air sufficiently you could just stack a second behind it and plumb it in series with the first. Derale has a package that includes a fan with the 15300. It's part number 15800..
patdown, I was looking at the 15300 too. looks like a good choice. If it doesn't cool the air sufficiently you could just stack a second behind it and plumb it in series with the first. Derale has a package that includes a fan with the 15300. It's part number 15800..
goldie lox
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2015
- Messages
- 142
Looking to do this and figured I would bring this back from the dead, anyone have better ideas, only thing I need to find is a good fan
pcmeiners
Well-known member
Derale 15300 Tube and Fin ....
Why would you want to run air through a coil which has under sized tubing, and roughly 14 elbow turns.
Look into Hayden DB 1260 or 1290, which has swirl tubes, large manifold pip size.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000HEADJ2/?tag=atomicindus08-20
Why would you want to run air through a coil which has under sized tubing, and roughly 14 elbow turns.
Look into Hayden DB 1260 or 1290, which has swirl tubes, large manifold pip size.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000HEADJ2/?tag=atomicindus08-20
Thread still lives. I am embarking on my own diy version. cooler will be https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01H74LEK6/?tag=atomicindus08-20
Then an AC fan Ill have to post up a pic. Will end up very similar to Stupendous man post #406 I wanted to go with the Hayden 1260 But my application just does not suit the larger foot print cooler. Ill add a water separator. wire the fan to run when the compressor runs. that pretty much spells it out.
Meant to add. Would be nice to have posters post before and after traits.
My before traits are:
1: I am in Florida so very humid.
2: tank has an auto purge valve in place (horrible freight) works but doesn't purge long enough.
3: My on off is 100/140 after a single run I can manually purge .05 oz water
then letting the tank sit the entire night and without running. I can come in the following day and purge 1.5oz or more.
4: 5 hp/1750, dual head "v type" compressor. sitting on a vertical 80 gallon tank. pump geared
fwiw.
Then an AC fan Ill have to post up a pic. Will end up very similar to Stupendous man post #406 I wanted to go with the Hayden 1260 But my application just does not suit the larger foot print cooler. Ill add a water separator. wire the fan to run when the compressor runs. that pretty much spells it out.
Meant to add. Would be nice to have posters post before and after traits.
My before traits are:
1: I am in Florida so very humid.
2: tank has an auto purge valve in place (horrible freight) works but doesn't purge long enough.
3: My on off is 100/140 after a single run I can manually purge .05 oz water
then letting the tank sit the entire night and without running. I can come in the following day and purge 1.5oz or more.
4: 5 hp/1750, dual head "v type" compressor. sitting on a vertical 80 gallon tank. pump geared
fwiw.
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DIYJus
Well-known member
Reactivation of the zombie thread yet again....
I'm looking for some suggestions to add an intercooler to my T30. A couple of years ago I bought this compressor from an old tire shop and did a partial restoration. I never put it into service though due to a move, etc...
I'd like to get it setup now and my plumbing search led me to this awesome aftercooler thread.
The Rand T30 was available with a factory aftercooler ($800 option), although my specific one didn't come with the option, there is space behind the belt guard and even holes to run the piping through.
Does anyone have some suggestions for a core that would work well in this situation (that isn't the $$$$ original one?) Piping should be easy and I don't think I fan would be necessary as the OEM one only uses the compressor flywheel fan. Pics below for clarity.
I'm looking for some suggestions to add an intercooler to my T30. A couple of years ago I bought this compressor from an old tire shop and did a partial restoration. I never put it into service though due to a move, etc...
I'd like to get it setup now and my plumbing search led me to this awesome aftercooler thread.
The Rand T30 was available with a factory aftercooler ($800 option), although my specific one didn't come with the option, there is space behind the belt guard and even holes to run the piping through.
Does anyone have some suggestions for a core that would work well in this situation (that isn't the $$$$ original one?) Piping should be easy and I don't think I fan would be necessary as the OEM one only uses the compressor flywheel fan. Pics below for clarity.
Attachments
driftpin
Well-known member
Here is a simple diagram my compressor dealer said would be a 'quick' way to get water separation from a system. He said to use either galvanized steel or silver-soldered copper sized to the diameter of the tank outlet. Each bottom end would have a water drain valve. The end would have a typical water separator, but he said most of the water would be removed by that point. He suggested a second port at the end if you were going to be running air tools needing oil, for an automatic oiler, while another no-oil port would be for painting air supply, for instance.
Sam, a good job on the roll-around, do you run-down the pad feet to use the compressor, or strap/chain it, to prevent it possibly toppling? Did you size the metal 'belt' so you can use machine screws/nuts (or captive nuts) to 'pinch' the tank, securing it? What part of the state are you in?
OK, I read the compressor hyperlink, that answered some questions.
Sam, a good job on the roll-around, do you run-down the pad feet to use the compressor, or strap/chain it, to prevent it possibly toppling? Did you size the metal 'belt' so you can use machine screws/nuts (or captive nuts) to 'pinch' the tank, securing it? What part of the state are you in?
OK, I read the compressor hyperlink, that answered some questions.
Attachments
Last edited:
The Tool Tyrant
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Reactivation of the zombie thread yet again....
I'm looking for some suggestions to add an intercooler to my T30. A couple of years ago I bought this compressor from an old tire shop and did a partial restoration. I never put it into service though due to a move, etc...
I'd like to get it setup now and my plumbing search led me to this awesome aftercooler thread.
The Rand T30 was available with a factory aftercooler ($800 option), although my specific one didn't come with the option, there is space behind the belt guard and even holes to run the piping through.
Does anyone have some suggestions for a core that would work well in this situation (that isn't the $$$$ original one?) Piping should be easy and I don't think I fan would be necessary as the OEM one only uses the compressor flywheel fan. Pics below for clarity.
https://www.zoro.com/akg-air-cooled-aftercooler-max-hp-10-35-cfm-c-1835bg/i/G1180961/
I installed this one on our shop Quincy QR 325 and it works great. I checked the temperature difference with my thermal temp gun and it was a substantial drop...don't remember the numbers offhand, but it was major.
Wait for one of Zoro's 20% off deals and get it for around $158. I know that others on the board have used trans coolers for the same purpose.
pcmeiners
Well-known member
Sorry guys buying coolers with aluminum tubes but.....
Personally I would not use any cooler using aluminum tubes. Since condensed water with dissolved gases (sulfuric/nitric oxides from atmospheric air, basically sulfuric and nitric acids ) is involved you will get galvanic action involved which will sacrifice the aluminum tubes for steel in the compressor system. The other action is sulfuric and nitric acids dissolving the aluminum directly, due to aluminum's high reactivity. Copper/stainless tubes are far less affected by this. Your better off with the Hayden DB series coolers with copper tubes, even though the swirl tubes within the copper tubes are made of aluminum.
Personally I would not use any cooler using aluminum tubes. Since condensed water with dissolved gases (sulfuric/nitric oxides from atmospheric air, basically sulfuric and nitric acids ) is involved you will get galvanic action involved which will sacrifice the aluminum tubes for steel in the compressor system. The other action is sulfuric and nitric acids dissolving the aluminum directly, due to aluminum's high reactivity. Copper/stainless tubes are far less affected by this. Your better off with the Hayden DB series coolers with copper tubes, even though the swirl tubes within the copper tubes are made of aluminum.
BCreekDave
Well-known member
Could run the compressor air through a bed of molecular sieve desiccant. Molecular sieve is an excellent acid scavenger. Better though like you say to use a copper-brass heat exchanger. Even they will corrode from the acids you have mentioned, but maybe not in one lifetime.
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Really old thread, I know! What I don't know follows... Have a 2 stage 5hp 60 gal Speedaire.
Primary and secondary cylinders are split. I am installing a Hayden 1260 cooler and a Norgren coalescing filter. Opinions please. Do I cool only the primary cylinder"s output and send to the secondary, or cool after both cylinders and then send to the tank? Pump turns at 1750 rpm. I'm in SE Arizona and heat produces lots of water in the lines. Thanks.
Primary and secondary cylinders are split. I am installing a Hayden 1260 cooler and a Norgren coalescing filter. Opinions please. Do I cool only the primary cylinder"s output and send to the secondary, or cool after both cylinders and then send to the tank? Pump turns at 1750 rpm. I'm in SE Arizona and heat produces lots of water in the lines. Thanks.
dkmc
Well-known member
Between the cylinders would be an "Intercooler" and after the output from the second stage would be an "Aftercooler". Many V type compressors do employ an Intercooler, IR type 30's being one model series. Usually one or multiple runs of finned tubing. If you could fit both, that would be great. If you can only do one, I'd say do the Aftercooler.
BCreekDave
Well-known member
A case could be made that you would not want to excessively cool the air between stages. If you lowered it below the dew point you could have liquid water going into the high pressure cylinder, which would be bad. Picture all the atoms in your body exploding at the speed of light. That bad.
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pcmeiners
Well-known member
I have a compressor with a large intercooler and aftercooler. Yes an intercooler will produce considerable water, which must be removed before it hits the second stage. The water removal is not the main objective, if the air is cooled between stages it is denser so technically you get more volume for a given HP, approx. 10-15% more. Stick with the small intercooler which comes with 2 stage compressors, the output aftercooler is more important.
TSelanne
Member
What a great thread, thanks all who've posted. I've been reading this thread for years, and learned a lot.
I have a problem and hoping someone here might be willing to help me.
I've purchased an ebmpapst fan, model W3G250-HK19-11, (click here for data sheet) for my after-cooler setup.
The problem: it will not turn on when I wire it up and give it power. An acquaintance of mine, also a retired electrician of 30+ years, came over and is also stumped. After I showed him this thread, he suggested I post here in case we're missing something.
We've wired it directly to the contactor that's on the pressure switch, thus, as power is always flowing to those connections, it should be turning on, yes?
I also purchased another smaller fan to place just above the compressor head for cooling, and that one works fine...... thus I'm worried this fan is simply broken. Normally that wouldn't be an issue, but I purchased it a long time ago and is no longer under warranty.
Are we missing something?
I have a problem and hoping someone here might be willing to help me.
I've purchased an ebmpapst fan, model W3G250-HK19-11, (click here for data sheet) for my after-cooler setup.
The problem: it will not turn on when I wire it up and give it power. An acquaintance of mine, also a retired electrician of 30+ years, came over and is also stumped. After I showed him this thread, he suggested I post here in case we're missing something.
We've wired it directly to the contactor that's on the pressure switch, thus, as power is always flowing to those connections, it should be turning on, yes?
I also purchased another smaller fan to place just above the compressor head for cooling, and that one works fine...... thus I'm worried this fan is simply broken. Normally that wouldn't be an issue, but I purchased it a long time ago and is no longer under warranty.
Are we missing something?
Attachments
BCreekDave
Well-known member
Not sure if this helps or not. Mine is a ebm pabst W2E250-HJ28-01 (maybe D1). It has a capacitor to start the motor 
Maybe some of the other wires are a hidden capacitor. It may need a jumper wire from the two hots feed the capacitor
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Maybe some of the other wires are a hidden capacitor. It may need a jumper wire from the two hots feed the capacitor
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Last edited:
MacMcMacmac
Well-known member
I would have to see the switch connections. Are you feeding it 240V or 120V?
TSelanne
Member
240v
Sorry, what do you mean by switch connections? Will gladly post more pics just not sure what you mean.
If it helps, I'm simply taking some 12-2 and connecting one end to the leads on the pressure switch (which are always hot), and connecting the other end directly to the fan as shown in the pic.
TSelanne
Member
Thanks for posting. I don't see any capacitor in the unit or on the data sheet..... we looked for it.
How would we know if it needs one, if it doesn't specifically mention it?
BCreekDave
Well-known member
If it needed a capacitor it would have one already there. Mine has one, it is the big cylinder device with the white wires just above the terminal strip in the photos. It is also noted on the label on my fan as 3.5 micro farad. Yours doesn’t have any note like that so it probably doesn’t need one. Just interesting it has that extra set of wires. Maybe it is a reversible motor?
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BCreekDave
Well-known member
Just looked at the data sheet at the link you provided and I see the problem.
This is a variable speed motor that need a motor controller. The controller provides 0 to 10 VDC in a series of pulses.
Read this
https://www.rs-online.com/designspark/fan-speed-control---0-10-volts
Sorry if I confused you initially.
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This is a variable speed motor that need a motor controller. The controller provides 0 to 10 VDC in a series of pulses.
Read this
https://www.rs-online.com/designspark/fan-speed-control---0-10-volts
Sorry if I confused you initially.
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TSelanne
Member
GearheadsQCE
New member
Hello everyone,
It appears that this is my first post, but I’ve been here before. I think there was a hiccup somewhere along the line. Maybe when I changed my email address or something else that wouldn't allow me to log on. Anyway, I'm back now and would like to ask a question or two.
I’ve read this thread and others about getting the water out of a compressed air system. Most are based on air to air condensers, but I would like to use water as the cooling medium.
I have a 7.5 HP Quincy 2 stage with an 80 Gal vertical tank. I was getting a lot of water during the summer months and decided to experiment with an after cooler. It is a simple 55 gallon plastic drum with 50' of 3/4"coiled copper, filled with water.
This has shown me the absolute value of condensing the water out. No drains or accumulators, yet. Right now the tank serves this purpose but I want to improve and refine the system. That is the purpose of this post.
The compressor is on the uninsulated second floor of my shop. The temperature can swing from below 0° F to 120° F (luckily not in the same day).
My intention is to place a vertical drain pipe right before the tank inlet. Probably with an automatic drain valve.
Now to the more involved stuff.
It would be very simple to place a second coil in the barrel and cool the air from the first stage pump before sending it to the secondary pump. This would have its own drain right before the second stage.
After the initial experiment it is obvious that 50 gallons of water and 50’ of tube is overkill.
So, how to determine the amount of tube and water is necessary to cool both stages? Should the intercooler stage be shorter so as to not overcool the air going to the second stage?
If so, in what proportion?
I would like to shorten and raise the barrel to simplify the piping and have only downward direction from the compressor outlet to the tank inlet.
In posts #426 & #427 above @BCreekDave and @pcmeiners brought up the possibility of a major catastrophe if the intercooler brought the secondary inlet temp below the dew point. That scared the bJesus out of me! But, after checking the record dew points for my area, I’m fairly confident that this can be done with minimal risk as long as I don’t do something stupid like try to super cool the water. My intent is to keep the water at or near ambient, although it would be fairly simple to cool it to near 40°.
Any and all input is appreciated.
Bruce
It appears that this is my first post, but I’ve been here before. I think there was a hiccup somewhere along the line. Maybe when I changed my email address or something else that wouldn't allow me to log on. Anyway, I'm back now and would like to ask a question or two.
I’ve read this thread and others about getting the water out of a compressed air system. Most are based on air to air condensers, but I would like to use water as the cooling medium.
I have a 7.5 HP Quincy 2 stage with an 80 Gal vertical tank. I was getting a lot of water during the summer months and decided to experiment with an after cooler. It is a simple 55 gallon plastic drum with 50' of 3/4"coiled copper, filled with water.
This has shown me the absolute value of condensing the water out. No drains or accumulators, yet. Right now the tank serves this purpose but I want to improve and refine the system. That is the purpose of this post.
The compressor is on the uninsulated second floor of my shop. The temperature can swing from below 0° F to 120° F (luckily not in the same day).
My intention is to place a vertical drain pipe right before the tank inlet. Probably with an automatic drain valve.
Now to the more involved stuff.
It would be very simple to place a second coil in the barrel and cool the air from the first stage pump before sending it to the secondary pump. This would have its own drain right before the second stage.
After the initial experiment it is obvious that 50 gallons of water and 50’ of tube is overkill.
So, how to determine the amount of tube and water is necessary to cool both stages? Should the intercooler stage be shorter so as to not overcool the air going to the second stage?
If so, in what proportion?
I would like to shorten and raise the barrel to simplify the piping and have only downward direction from the compressor outlet to the tank inlet.
In posts #426 & #427 above @BCreekDave and @pcmeiners brought up the possibility of a major catastrophe if the intercooler brought the secondary inlet temp below the dew point. That scared the bJesus out of me! But, after checking the record dew points for my area, I’m fairly confident that this can be done with minimal risk as long as I don’t do something stupid like try to super cool the water. My intent is to keep the water at or near ambient, although it would be fairly simple to cool it to near 40°.
Any and all input is appreciated.
Bruce
dkmc
Well-known member
Thanks for sharing your experiment Bruce. How would you go about cooling the water to 40F in a simple way?
GearheadsQCE
New member
My house and shop are on a well. I could run cold water into the condenser tank, with an overflow to the outside. The 40F number might be a bit on the low side, but it comes out pretty darn cold. I'll have to measure it.
BCreekDave
Well-known member
Hello everyone,
It appears that this is my first post, but I’ve been here before. I think there was a hiccup somewhere along the line. Maybe when I changed my email address or something else that wouldn't allow me to log on. Anyway, I'm back now and would like to ask a question or two.
I’ve read this thread and others about getting the water out of a compressed air system. Most are based on air to air condensers, but I would like to use water as the cooling medium.
I have a 7.5 HP Quincy 2 stage with an 80 Gal vertical tank. I was getting a lot of water during the summer months and decided to experiment with an after cooler. It is a simple 55 gallon plastic drum with 50' of 3/4"coiled copper, filled with water.
This has shown me the absolute value of condensing the water out. No drains or accumulators, yet. Right now the tank serves this purpose but I want to improve and refine the system. That is the purpose of this post.
The compressor is on the uninsulated second floor of my shop. The temperature can swing from below 0° F to 120° F (luckily not in the same day).
My intention is to place a vertical drain pipe right before the tank inlet. Probably with an automatic drain valve.
Now to the more involved stuff.
It would be very simple to place a second coil in the barrel and cool the air from the first stage pump before sending it to the secondary pump. This would have its own drain right before the second stage.
After the initial experiment it is obvious that 50 gallons of water and 50’ of tube is overkill.
So, how to determine the amount of tube and water is necessary to cool both stages? Should the intercooler stage be shorter so as to not overcool the air going to the second stage?
If so, in what proportion?
I would like to shorten and raise the barrel to simplify the piping and have only downward direction from the compressor outlet to the tank inlet.
In posts #426 & #427 above @BCreekDave and @pcmeiners brought up the possibility of a major catastrophe if the intercooler brought the secondary inlet temp below the dew point. That scared the bJesus out of me! But, after checking the record dew points for my area, I’m fairly confident that this can be done with minimal risk as long as I don’t do something stupid like try to super cool the water. My intent is to keep the water at or near ambient, although it would be fairly simple to cool it to near 40°.
Any and all input is appreciated.
Bruce
Keep in mind that the dew point isn’t based on the ambient outside air temp, but the temp of the compressed air. Cooling the air between cylinders helps the efficiency by giving the second stage a denser supply of air. If you cooled it too much and didn’t empty the liquid water out before it got to the piston it could hydro-lock.
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GearheadsQCE
New member
Thanx for the reply. I hadn't considered the temp of the first stage air being the basis for the dew point.
I think I have a handle on this now. I need to drain before the second stage. Looking at Franzinator, electric automatic drains and even high volume desiccant solutions.
I don't mind manually draining but want to have enough volume so that I only have to do it once a day. I do have an extra 15 gallon tank that I could use for that.
Any thoughts on this?
Thanx,
Bruce
I think I have a handle on this now. I need to drain before the second stage. Looking at Franzinator, electric automatic drains and even high volume desiccant solutions.
I don't mind manually draining but want to have enough volume so that I only have to do it once a day. I do have an extra 15 gallon tank that I could use for that.
Any thoughts on this?
Thanx,
Bruce