Compressor Aftercooler Recommendation

[Wigz1981]

Hello, looking to add an aftercooler setup to my vintage Quincy 325 ROC 1 120gal. Compressor. The common upgrade seems to be the Derale 16 row tube and fin cooler.

All the examples i see for it are on 3hp or lower compressors. So not sure if it fit my needs as well. As far as efficiency or cooling capacity it seems to be tube and fin>bar and fin>stacked plate. Ive been considering other coolers. Here is a belt guard bar and fin geared towards 5-7.5hp with 3/4” NPT fittings.

The other option is the Derale Hyper Cool extreme 40 row stacked plate cooler. Its pricey for sure but the BTU rating is nice. I like the fact that Derale lists the BTU rating for their coolers. Ive only seen a couple examples of bar and fin and stacked plate coolers being used so im not sure how much of a difference it would make. Im not sure at what cooling capacity we hit the point of diminishing returns. I will be using a 10” high flow fan with the Derale coolers or a dual 8” with the belt guard one (although i dont have a belt guard at the moment. Just picked up a replacement 120gal SteelFab tank that has an extension at the back end of the deck that was probably meant for the belt guard. It will make a good mounting point.

Just curious if anyone has taken these routes, if its worth it use the higher efficiency coolers at a higher cost, is the tube and fin option plenty for a 5hp/120gal setup. The air delivery system will be 3/4” copper with 1/2” drops. 1” is scarce around me (Jacksonville, FL). So the piping system will add a bit of cooling as well. To do the diy copper pipe air dryer it would cost me more than the Derale Hyper Cool Extreme with the local pricing here and this is far less effort to implement and id prefer to keep the wall space free.

 

[Wiz02]

I looked into this too and decided to go with copper tubing as I liked the look and accumulated parts for it a little at a time.

One thing that I learned from my research is to look at the input/output fittings on the cooler. AN fittings on the cooler will need adapters to get back to NPT, and you pbly want swivels if you want to change the configuration or do maintenance in the future.

I probably had no cause to be concerned, but the diameter of the tubing in the commonly used cooler models is way less than 3/4" and that bothered me.

Let's see a picture of your installation when you are done. (Mine is still on my too list).

 

[Wigz1981]

From what ive seen you can remove the an fittings from the coolers. The tube and fin has a 1/2” port and the stacked plate has a 7/8” port. My current plan is to use soft tubing for the connections. I could use pipe to have a larger diameter but i dont want to have a lot of couplers to change the run angle and I currently need a bender. Around me the largest soft tubing i can find is 1/2” so i most likely wont take that route. For now i have to drill the deck on the new tank. The holes it has were definitely for a massive pump and motor. I got rid of my old tank yesterday but forgot to take the deck. Now im glad i forgot. Im looking around the house for a good length of brown packing paper so i can copy it for a template. My 325 had an old Wagner 3hp replusion induction. Im swapping it with a 5hp 3ph Baldor with 7.5hp vfd (it was way cheaper than going with a single phase 5hp)

 

[nutjob]

I think this is the one you pictured:
https://www.zoro.com/akg-air-cooled-aftercooler-max-hp-25-100-cfm-c-70100bg/i/G2111706/
1" NPT in and out and mounting brackets, just bolt to the fan shroud. Not cheap but this is designed for large compressors and spec'd to 250psi

I used -12AN fittings 3/4"NPT with Stainless Steel Hose With PTFE Inner Core. I found it was easier than sourcing 5/8" copper and fittings and a tube bender.

Kevin

 

[Wigz1981]

The one i saw was 3/4” NPT. Probably just a smaller version. The Derale 40 row stacked plate can come with 12an but the port is 7/8-14 on all of them. I was going to buy the 6an version because its 40-60 dollars cheaper than the 12an and i was going to replace the fittings anyways. Im going to look into the steel braided hoses more. Maybe look for some proper flex hoses. If it werent for the smaller fittings that air compressors use i could get some flex hoses from work (Navy). But yea hoses with some swivel AN fittings would definitely be nice. I just have to balance the cost between the different options and see what hits the best balance. This project has escalated pretty quickly. It went from picking up a cheap compressor for a couple hundred to getting a new motor, finding a vfd (motor is 3ph), discovering the drain broke off the original thank thats from the 40s or early 50s, washing my hands of it and getting a tank thats twice as big and from 2003, still have to pick the aftercooler i want to go with and sort the plumbing. Normally you run the pump outlet to the center of the tank (its a horizontal tank). On mine it looks to be 1/2” or 3/4” so if i piped it the standard way i would have to step down a bit to that 1/2”. I could also run it to the port right of the tank top which is 1-1/2” and use whichever side i need to. It has 1/2”-ish center of tank top, one 1-1/2” tank top and the same port side on both the left and right side of the tank in standard locations, 1/4” center front for gauge, and a single 3/4” on bottom for drain. From what i can tell the last person plumbed it as an aux tank.

 

[Wigz1981]

At the moment im leaning towards the Derale 40 core the BTU rating is like 4 times that of the 15800 most people go with. Im fine with swallowing the extra $100 or so for it if its going to be a decent upgrade. Removing the AN fitting it will have a 7/8” port versus the 1/2” on the other one so itll be less restrictive although either would probably be fine. The tested operating pressure is like 260 on it with a burst rating of 300 or 350. I was considering cheaper amazon ones but they all have a test psi of around 117 and a max of 200 so ill steer clear of those. I also beed to sort this so i can figure out what size check valve i will go with. Depending which tank port i rout to i can go fairly large. The tank came with a old cast iron check valve that seems to let a bit of air leak by and im sure it will cause rust issues down the line. Will replace it with your standard fare 1/2” or 3/4”. Maybe go with 1” if i plumb it to the further tank port.

 

[mm08822]

I was looking into doing similar approach. By the time time I considered parts, fab time, space required and still not certain how effective it would be, I went with a packaged refrigerant air dryer. Had I more space, I might have continued the original plan but it wasn't practical for me.

Make sure you pitch everything to drain, provide automated drains, and increase pipe size diameters to slow down air velocity for increased cooling.

Coiled copper tubing is also a simple "out of the box" possibility. Air-over cooling is needed or submerged into a plastic 55 drum with water. All depends on your continuous usage as to which could be viable.

Have fun!

 

[Rccrawlerguy]

I did one of these several year ago, on a 60 gal tank. It's 12x24. I put the cooler right in front of my pulley, so it force air through the cooler. Before the cooler, the hose between the pump and tank, you couldnt touch it would get so hot. Now, the inlet side is hot and the outlet to the tank is room temp. After the cooler, I went to a water separator then to the tank check valve. If I drain my tank daily now, I get a few drops of water.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000HEADJ2/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[Retired dozer fixer]

Why would you run a vfd on an air compressor? Wouldn’t you want to have full rpm all the time for volume? Not trying to be a smart *** just never heard of anything set up like that.

 

[Wigz1981]

Belt guard mounted one look like a nice clean install. I dont have a belt guard at the moment. They never seem to come with the cheap marketplace finds. I will end up fabricating one once i get around to picking up a welder. Its low on the priority list at the moment. For now i will have stuff staged around it to limit access to the belts (have small kids). Im fairly certain im going to order the Derale Hyper Cool Extreme today. The cooling looks impressive and it will be easy to mount to my tank. Toying with the idea or picking up a second fan and running push pull. Probably wouldnt be worth the cost. Ive done a similar setup with PC watercooling and push pull only netted a couple degree difference. Looked at stainless braided ptfe 12AN hoses and theyre fairly cheap. Really considering that route right now. If a hose blows out for some reason (the operating psi limit is waaaay more than ill ever have access to) it would be a really easy swap. Ive seen one case where they used soft copper with the 15850 or whatever and it broke the weld for the port. Im guessing the bend was off and probably had to be forced to line up with the cooler port. Talked with the wife about ordering one and she didnt think the hyper cool was that expensive. I was expecting more push back lol. I have a psu for the fan already since they basically use the psu that comes in a 3d printer. I have an extra Meanwell 120/220 to 12v that has a smaller footprint that the standard ones and has plenty of amperage for the fans. Trying to get this wrapped up soon so i can move to other projects. Garage is filling up with parts to like four different project builds.

 

[Wigz1981]

Why would you run a vfd on an air compressor? Wouldn’t you want to have full rpm all the time for volume? Not trying to be a smart *** just never heard of anything set up like that.

3 phase motor needa a vfd or phase convertor to use with single phase power. it will still run the same as a motor without a vfd would because the vfd is a higher rating than the motor. Went this route because a used single phase 5hp motor goes for around $750 around here. Grabbed an unused Baldor 5hp 3ph abd the vfd for $200. Ive had to program and troubleshoot hundereds of vfds for my job so im used to dealing with them. Admittedly a single phase motor with a magnetic starter would have been way easier.

 

[Retired dozer fixer]

Got you. Thanks for the explanation

 

[Wigz1981]

Got you. Thanks for the explanation

No problem. If youre working with a 3ph motor thats 10hp or larger it would be better to have a phase convertor. This is for my home garage so 5hp is plenty. I have a couple of cars i need to paint but ill mainly be using it for air tools and a vapor blast cabinet build. Have some wheels and car parts i want to powdercoat for myself but im in the military and i have a gaggle of people on and around my base that want me to cerakote gun parts for them. They keep bugging me about when ill be done with the setup but im short on time to work on the builds right now. Parts keep piling up but i need to finish builds before i start the next project lol. Hell i have more parts on hand for my powdercoating/composite curing oven build then i do for the compressor. Once i can source out some cheap galvanized steel sheets to skin the frame its pretty much ready to go.

 

[GeoBruin]

It's very hard to read through your posts since you don't seem to like paragraphs, but I seem to see a lot of concern regarding "small diameter" piping and fittings. I just wanted to chime in to remind you that your pump is only putting out 15 - 20 cfm, and that those fittings and short runs of soft copper you're talking about are capable of flowing 10 times that amount or more.

Don't spend a bunch of extra money or add complexity because you think you are going to be restricting yourself with a couple 1/2 "fittings before the tank.

 

[Wigz1981]

Thats why i said it probably wouldnt matter in an earlier post. Sorry about the long posts with no seperation. In person i talk just like those posts look lol. I have ADHD and my medication makes me a bit manic (even though its supposed to do the opposite) so i have an excess of energy. It causes problem at work for administrative tasks but is a plus when im boots on deck troubleshooting and fixing equipment (im a gas turbine electrician for the Navy).

 

[Wigz1981]

Ill drop this here since it seems relevant to the topic at hand. I was just in the garage with my 5 year old son who is autistic. He cant talk socially or really tell you what he wants but he understands how machinery works without ever seeing it before. I have the 325 sitting on the floor of the garage and Connor points to it, says Dad to get my attention, and held his arms up in a Y shape started pumping his arms alternately (think pistons mounted to a crankshaft in a V engine) and said pew pew pew for the sound of it pumping. So yea, my 5 year old knows how compressors work. Then he said heavy, i said very, and he said ouch. These are the moments im proudest of him. He could come home with straight As on a report card and it wouldnt have the same impact as him showing me how my tools work.

 

[pelletman]

From what ive seen you can remove the an fittings from the coolers. The tube and fin has a 1/2” port and the stacked plate has a 7/8” port. My current plan is to use soft tubing for the connections. I could use pipe to have a larger diameter but i dont want to have a lot of couplers to change the run angle and I currently need a bender. Around me the largest soft tubing i can find is 1/2” so i most likely wont take that route. For now i have to drill the deck on the new tank. The holes it has were definitely for a massive pump and motor. I got rid of my old tank yesterday but forgot to take the deck. Now im glad i forgot. Im looking around the house for a good length of brown packing paper so i can copy it for a template. My 325 had an old Wagner 3hp replusion induction. Im swapping it with a 5hp 3ph Baldor with 7.5hp vfd (it was way cheaper than going with a single phase 5hp)

I thought I read here somewhere using a VFD on a 3 phase compressor was a no no. I have a 7.5hp 3 phase I would love to do it with

 

[Wigz1981]

I thought I read here somewhere using a VFD on a 3 phase compressor was a no no. I have a 7.5hp 3 phase I would love to do it with

The compressor has nothing to do with it it only deals with the motor. Its just a case of knowing how to program it and adjusting the frequency until the motor is turning at the right speed. It can be setup to operate as a soft start where it will come up to speed over a set amount of time. I havent seen anyone have too much success with it. How the vfd will work is once I hook up the power and the motor the vfd will convert the 3 phase to single and theres another terminal on the vfd for other functions with either 24 or 12vdc. Ill be using one of those channels for the pressure switch which can operate off of 12 volt. So i will just have to adjust the switch itself and the contacts will tell the vfd when to turn it on or off. Once i order the stuff for the aftercooler im going to check what amperage the 12vdc on the vfd has and use that for the fan instead of a power supply. Cheaper VFDs will have a shorter life span but for the difference in price i would rather just buy another one. I bought mine used on ebay for $50. A higher end one like a mitsubishi, siemens, allen bradley, etc youre looking at $1200 or more. Ive used the cheaper Huanyang and Vevor ones and havent had an issue yet.

 

[Wigz1981]

I thought I read here somewhere using a VFD on a 3 phase compressor was a no no. I have a 7.5hp 3 phase I would love to do it with

Also if you take the vfd route make sure you factor in the inrush current of the motor (people saying not to use it probably didnt size the vfd for it). Theres calculators online to determine it. Just put in info from your motors info plate. The calculator will show you the motor start amperage and its just a case of finding a vfd that can handle it. If you have a 7.5hp motor look for a 10hp or 7.5kw vfd and you should be good.

 

[W-Cummins]

Here is my after-cooler and VFD that run my compressor. The after cooler I attached to the fan guard I fabricated as the one that came with the compressor was damaged. The VFD is GREAT I don't think I would run a large compressor w/o one now that I have been running it. Soft start is wonderful, and I'm currently running it a reduced RPM as I do not need all the air for most things. Also the Wilkerson centrifugal water separator is a must have. It spits out a ton of water when the compressor is running in the summer, almost no water makes it to the tank.

 

[Wigz1981]

Very nice setup. I went with a blade guard mounted cooler. Dont have a blade guard at the moment but i can slap a mount together for now. I see you are using flex hoses, im going to go with those instead of hard tubing. While im waiting on parts to show up im going to tear the pump down, degrease it, prime and paint, see if theres anything on its way out that needs to be replaced.

 

[Firstram]

Hayden 1299 oil cooler is what I used and couldn't be happier.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hda-1299

Keep in mind, if you go with that Derale, you will need to power that 12vdc fan and turn it on and off! Use the Hayden with a 230 volt fan that's tied in to the magnetic starter.

 

[GeoBruin]

Derale 15300 with soft copper on mine.

 

[lbhsbz]

Derale 15300 with soft copper on mine.

I have the same setup and it works excellent.

One thing I will recommend is to NOT buy ****** compression fittings on Amazon...I used those first, then one of the connections blew apart and destroyed my cooler...

Went back together with good ones from McMaster and it's been perfect. I also bought an inexpensive bender for aluminum and soft copper tubing...made things much nicer than the first round bending around paint cans and such

 

[GeoBruin]

I have the same setup and it works excellent.

One thing I will recommend is to NOT buy ****** compression fittings on Amazon...I used those first, then one of the connections blew apart and destroyed my cooler...

Went back together with good ones from McMaster and it's been perfect. I also bought an inexpensive bender for aluminum and soft copper tubing...made things much nicer than the first round bending around paint cans and such

I used a bending spring but otherwise just used my knee! A bender would have been nice.

 

[Wigz1981]

Hayden 1299 oil cooler is what I used and couldn't be happier.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hda-1299

Keep in mind, if you go with that Derale, you will need to power that 12vdc fan and turn it on and off! Use the Hayden with a 230 volt fan that's tied in to the magnetic starter.

I went with a cooler from compressor-world. Its the plate and fin one rated for 5-7.5hp compressors with the 3/4” npt fittings. I had to order a few other parts anyways. This “cheap” compressor keeps getting more expensive lol. It went from a rusted out 3hp 60 gallon to a 5hp 120 gallon. Would have been nice to find a little bit of a later ROC but it was cheap and it ran. I have the ROC 1 and i cant find a single manual or parts list for it. Contact Quincy, apparently they cant either.

 

[Wigz1981]

I went with a cooler from compressor-world. Its the plate and fin one rated for 5-7.5hp compressors with the 3/4” npt fittings. I had to order a few other parts anyways. This “cheap” compressor keeps getting more expensive lol. It went from a rusted out 3hp 60 gallon to a 5hp 120 gallon. Would have been nice to find a little bit of a later ROC but it was cheap and it ran. I have the ROC 1 and i cant find a single manual or parts list for it. Contact Quincy, apparently they cant either.

Also mine is going to run off a vfd due to the motor being 3 phase. The vfd would have been able to power the fan. The few of these coolers ive seen used they werent using a fan. Ill add fans at some point depending where the outlet temp is at.

 

[Wigz1981]

Guessing parts will get here by next week. Ill post some pics once the build gets going.

 

[BigSalNY]

Ill drop this here since it seems relevant to the topic at hand. I was just in the garage with my 5 year old son who is autistic. He cant talk socially or really tell you what he wants but he understands how machinery works without ever seeing it before. I have the 325 sitting on the floor of the garage and Connor points to it, says Dad to get my attention, and held his arms up in a Y shape started pumping his arms alternately (think pistons mounted to a crankshaft in a V engine) and said pew pew pew for the sound of it pumping. So yea, my 5 year old knows how compressors work. Then he said heavy, i said very, and he said ouch. These are the moments im proudest of him. He could come home with straight As on a report card and it wouldnt have the same impact as him showing me how my tools work.

this made my day

 

[BigSalNY]

I went with a cooler from compressor-world. Its the plate and fin one rated for 5-7.5hp compressors with the 3/4” npt fittings. I had to order a few other parts anyways. This “cheap” compressor keeps getting more expensive lol. It went from a rusted out 3hp 60 gallon to a 5hp 120 gallon. Would have been nice to find a little bit of a later ROC but it was cheap and it ran. I have the ROC 1 and i cant find a single manual or parts list for it. Contact Quincy, apparently they cant either.

I went down a very slippery slope much like you did..... a "Free" compressor ended up costing me about 350 dollars not including my time. But I've come to start appreciating these little side projects more then wrenching on vehicles for money as a side gig.

I'll eventually make a post on my build but it is a 30 gallon horizontal speedaire tank with a champion B1 or BV1 compressor pump. It was grossly underpowered with a 3/4 hp dayton.

I hydro tested the tank first, prepped and painted it and then rebuilt the whole thing, upgraded the motor to a 1.5hp WEG motor, pullyu swap new start contactor etc. Its currently in a rubbermaid storage shed next to my garage, works mint. I drain it down to 50 psi when im done using it each time. Next little project will be a aftercooler setup, just because

 

[BigSalNY]

Little teaser pic of my project

 

[danielbuck]

I used NiCopp line when plumbing the cooler to my compressor. I used a transmission cooler and a small radiator fan that kicks on with a pressure switch plumbed to the nicopp lines. I THINK the cooler is a Derale 15300

This setup works extremely well. any time I crack open the drain valve on the tank (have it on an electrical switch), I never hear water come out. And my water trap before the hose reel never has water in it either.

I put the cooler outside of the cabinet I have around my compressor/tank, to keep it from getting too hot in there. The line going into the cooler is always super hot, and the line going back into the tank is almost always about ambient temperature, sometimes a little more, but no where near hot.

(this photo is old, before I finished setting it up. The electrical box is closed up now, and there's a shroud around the fan now, the shroud definitely helped with airflow)

 

[johnre]

The line going into the cooler is always super hot, and the line going back into the tank is almost always about ambient temperature, sometimes a little more, but no where near hot.

Just curious, which line is which at the top?

 

[danielbuck]

Just curious, which line is which at the top?

the hot line coming from the compressor is on the left, going into the top of the cooler. I'm sure there's a layout that would be better looking that this, I didn't really put any though into the layout, I just bolted the items in and ran lines.

The cooler has a few inches air gap between the wood face of the enclosure, to allow the air to pass through. It's not mounted flush.

 

[no704]

What’s the psi rating on a trans cooler? Or an intercooler for that matter? Lots of pretty cheap intrcoolers out now.