Compressor and Air line questions

[Stouttrout]

I have done alot of searching on this and I see alot of contradiction. Can someone set me straight. A buddy of mine has all his airlines run in PVC pipe. I really do not like that idea but, Is it safe? I see alot about copper and this seems like a good idea.

I just aquired an 80 gallon Ingersoll Rand and a 60 Gallon Ranch Hand with what looks like an Ingersol pump on it. They cam from Tractor supply. Both had been dropped but not damaged bad. $100 for the both of them. Yeah, I stole them. I have a compressor shed built onto the side of the shop to locate the compressor outside. I plan to run the 80 gallon outside and maybe use the tank off the 60 as a piggy back tank.

I will need to run the lines about 60 feet and will have three tee offs about every 20 feet.

What should I use?
Is the a supplier that has flex type tubing?
What kind of valves?

 

[bdog]

Take the money you saved and buy copper. It is the best. Black Iron is much cheaper and will work but it rusts and puts trash in your lines. PVC, while I have seen it used, is dangerous. If it breaks it explodes and sends pieces everywhere.

 

[wantedabiggergarage]

PVC in a commercial shop, is subject to OSHA fines. There are two types of plastic that are approved for airlines, one pex (pex-al-pex, if I remember correctly) and an ABS plastic (dura something, differently colored from DWV pipe). There are also other exotics, such as aluminum and stainless, but all these will cost you more then either copper or black iron.

PVC is rated for water use. Water pressure and air pressure are different, water pressure will rupture a pipe, air pressure will explode pvc pipe.

 

[senlow]

Do NOT use PVC. It is not suitable for compressible fluids. When it fails, sharp shards of brittle plastic are strewn all over the shop.

All air systems involve design compromises. The material that you should use depends on your specific needs. Below are some pros and cons of some common materials for air system plumbing.

Copper is easy to work with. There are no costly tools required for installation. The tubing walls are smooth for minimal friction losses. However, copper is costly.

Black iron pipe is cheap. It is also the least likely to be damaged in an abusive environment. It does have rough walls that add to the friction losses. This can be mitigated by using larger diameter pipe. Iron pipe is also prone to rust. Probably not the best choice in a humid area unless you use an air dryer. Also, good threading and cutting tools are costly.

Aluminum tubing has pretty much the same characteristics as copper, except that it has more limited availability.

Rubber hose is a poor plumbing material. It sags between supports, and collects water in the low spots. This is a problem with any flexible tubing. The typical small diameter hose created excessive friction loss.

I prefer to use ball valves in air systems due to their good flow characteristics and ease of operation. Be sure to isolate your air system from the compressor with a short section of flexible hose. And remember, do NOT use PVC.

 

[tdkkart]

I'm seriously considering this:
http://www.rapidairproducts.com/distributors/index.asp

Reasonably priced(cheaper than copper), super easy to install, tough, and adaptable to just about any need. We use nylon tubing and push fittings in alot of our equipment at work, it functions amazingly well in all kinds of situations and is easy to repair when and if there is a problem. Look inside of almost any manufacturing equipment, CNCs, conveyor lines etc, these days and you will that they are all plumbed with nylon line.

 

[wantedabiggergarage]

I'm seriously considering this:
http://www.rapidairproducts.com/distributors/index.asp

Reasonably priced(cheaper than copper), super easy to install, tough, and adaptable to just about any need. We use nylon tubing and push fittings in alot of our equipment at work, it functions amazingly well in all kinds of situations and is easy to repair when and if there is a problem. Look inside of almost any manufacturing equipment, CNCs, conveyor lines etc, these days and you will that they are all plumbed with nylon line.

If you use it, please show us your layout and costs. So many of those push connect fitting systems, are cheap for the pipe, and get you on the fittings. Heck the copper push connect fittings, are around $6 a piece here. (on the cheap side)

 

[Stouttrout]

Wow, that is pretty cool stuff. I like it. Okay, so it is copper or this Rapid Air stuff. NO PVC. I just did not like the sound of it. Seem like if it goes it would shoot shrapnel everywhere.

 

[Stouttrout]

I have used Prestolok fitting for the ARB lockers and On Board Air on the Jeeps. They work great but they are pricey. I may give them call monday and see if I can get some pricing. Did not see any on the website.

Edit:

Found some pricing.. !00ft with 2 connectos and a compress tie in kit is about $140. Sounds good to me.

It only comes in 1/2" will that be enough to run air tools if the longest section is 100 feet?

 

[senlow]

I have used Prestolok fitting for the ARB lockers and On Board Air on the Jeeps. They work great but they are pricey. I may give them call monday and see if I can get some pricing. Did not see any on the website.

Edit:

Found some pricing.. !00ft with 2 connectos and a compress tie in kit is about $140. Sounds good to me.

It only comes in 1/2" will that be enough to run air tools if the longest section is 100 feet?

1/2" tubing for 100' may be marginal depending on your air volume requirements and the quantity of fittings along that length. Since you have a second tank, it may help to place it at the end of the furthest run. This way, you are never more than 50' from a source of stored air.

 

[BigChevy80]

I haven't run any lines in my garage yet, but when I do, it will be all copper with soldered fittings. It might cost more in the long run, but you only have to pay for it once.

Those press on fittings are not worth the time and are just one more unnecessary failure point in the system. A properly soldered joint will last as long as the pipe. Soldering is not hard at all as long as you do it right. Should take the average person just a few practice tries to get it right.

 

[dps]

I'm the proponent here of rubber tubing; I think it was a little short-changed in its description.

Sags don't need to occur; depends on how you choose to support it. But sags don't hurt it a bit, even if water collects it doesn't hurt anything, it just moves on down the line like any other system. I would assume you would use a separator at each drop.

The hose (tubing) is very damage resistant by accidental impact. It's also grease, oil, and fuel resistant, and is usually rated at 600 psi, a very large safety margin.

It is very fast to install and there are no fittings between joints to leak or increase friction.

It is relatively inexpensive.

I would build any kind of system you might choose with a minimum 3/4" diameter; 1/2" will be barely adequate for constant flow tools or sprayers, and that Rapid Air is not even 1/2" on the inside diameter, probably more like 3/8".

 

[wantedabiggergarage]

I haven't run any lines in my garage yet, but when I do, it will be all copper with soldered fittings. It might cost more in the long run, but you only have to pay for it once.

Those press on fittings are not worth the time and are just one more unnecessary failure point in the system. A properly soldered joint will last as long as the pipe. Soldering is not hard at all as long as you do it right. Should take the average person just a few practice tries to get it right.

The press on fittings, while not prefered, do fill a need. Areas that IMHO are too close to wood and other flamables as the prior installer never took into account potential failure.
That said, saying you only have to pay for it once, with todays copper theft, means you need to knock on wood.

 

[russlaferrera]

STOUTTROUT, as a suggestion put a shutoff valve on the piggyback tank. There may be times you will not need all that air.

If you get 2 pieces if light gauge metal about 6-8 in square, bolt then together with washers between them to make a heat shield. This will help you when soldering around wood.

 

[Stouttrout]

I am good at copper pipe. Been repairing it since I was kid. That is not problem. I may run a small section of the tube but I think for the long run I will use 3/4 copper.

Yes, I do plan to isolate the piggy back tank. I mainly want it for when I use sandblaster and it will act as an equalizer tank for painting.

 

[sberry]

Many hose reels have 50 ft of 3/8 on them, easy to run down a small comp with that, a 1/2 line will quickly drain the comps in a situation like sandblasting. The only reason for larger lines is where bursts of high volume of air are needed, large impacts would be an example. Piggyback wont give as much gain as one might think, running both units is a huge advantage.

 

[dbird]

I have the rapid air system & couldn't be more pleased, great product.

 

[Torque Wrench]

I have done alot of searching on this and I see alot of contradiction. Can someone set me straight. A buddy of mine has all his airlines run in PVC pipe. I really do not like that idea but, Is it safe? I see alot about copper and this seems like a good idea.

I just aquired an 80 gallon Ingersoll Rand and a 60 Gallon Ranch Hand with what looks like an Ingersol pump on it. They cam from Tractor supply. Both had been dropped but not damaged bad. $100 for the both of them. Yeah, I stole them. I have a compressor shed built onto the side of the shop to locate the compressor outside. I plan to run the 80 gallon outside and maybe use the tank off the 60 as a piggy back tank.

I will need to run the lines about 60 feet and will have three tee offs about every 20 feet.

What should I use?
Is the a supplier that has flex type tubing?
What kind of valves?

I would go with Aluminum air piping, it has been around for about 15 years and is really gaining popularity because of it's ease of installation. One of the good one out there is Prevost pipe. www.prevostusa.com There is no corroision or flaking like iron pipe and you don't have the labor intensive copper to sweat on. This product you just need a pipe cutter, chamfer tool and a prevost wreanch to assemble. It is very easy, and the best thing is you can move it, or add to it when you want. The labor is were you are going to save on this aluminum product.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

I had planned to use Chem-Aire ABS based plastic air piping by Nibco. It is OSHA approved. For whatever reason, Nibco advises me that it has been discontinued. Unless I find a supplier with a decent sized remaining stock (very doubtful) I will have to rethink by air system, and probably do copper, esp since metal prices are falling.

Charles

 

[Mussel Kar]

I used hundreds of feet of schedule 80 PVC at work with no issues at all. Parts of the system have been in use for close to 25 years now. Main line is 2" black iron.

 

[Torque1st]

Mussel Kar- Where do you work? Your employer is now in line to get massive OSHA fines and a really big lawsuit if that PVC line fails and someone is injured.

NEVER EVER use PVC for compressed air!

Stouttrout- Check with your local codes administrator, fire department, and/or building inspectors. Some materials are not allowed by code.

One of the functions of the air lines is to condense some of the water in the compressed air stream. Metal air lines will perform that function, plastics and elastomers will not. Air distribution line configuration is important.

Check out this diagram, it is one of the best I have found:
http://www.tptools.com/StaticText/airline-piping-diagram.pdf
Check out their tool website also:
http://www.tptools.com/

 

[senlow]

Check out this diagram, it is one of the best I have found:
http://www.tptools.com/StaticText/airline-piping-diagram.pdf
Check out their tool website also:
http://www.tptools.com/

That is an excellent diagram illustrating good air system design. It is almost identical to the diagram in the fluid power handbook.

 

[Torque1st]

Knowing that handbook who knows who copied whom...

 

[senlow]

Knowing that handbook who knows who copied whom...

Good point. It wasn't my intention to imply that TP Tools copied the diagram. I doubt if there is any original material in that handbook. Everything in it came from various sources in the industry.

 

[e-tek]

I'm a black pipe fan. Although copper is fine too, I grew up in shops that always used black pipe, knowing that it best condenses the air, is tough as....steel...and is easy to add to or change. My system went up iwth a minimum of hassle and I've addded and changed it several times, never having a leak.

 

[Torque1st]

I have multiple fluid power "handbooks" and textbooks from various sources, some in several versions, plus a collection of loose notes and many files collected over the years. They all have useful information in them and they seem to "share" well among them.

 

[krooser]

I used black iron... it was used for an air system before I got it. No rust prblems after five years in my shop and 15 years in the previous location.

All the moisture collects at the drops and can be drained away... that's the beauty of iron... it condenses the moisture at the lowest points in the system.