Compressor down, what to do next?

[sanddan]

I have a 5 hp 2 stage 80 gal Cambell Hausfield compressor that was purchased new in 1996 that is having issues.

It has been making squealing noises occasionally when running but has continued to make pressure. I thought it sounded like a bad bearing in the motor so I decided to see if I could take the motor apart and replace them.

The motor is a 230V 3450 RPM143T frame that did not need a mag starter. The motor cover on the pulley end was stuck so I used my press to get it off. In the process I bent the sheet metal fan but was able to get it straightened out ok. All was proceeding nicely until a slip when removing the second bearing resulted in breaking a plastic ring on the armature. It's an Emerson motor but I could not find any parts break down for the so I'm afraid that this motor is now toast.

My dilemma is what to do next? A new Lesson motor will run me $300 which isn't too bad but it's still a 20 year old compressor that only cost $700 new. I didn't mind spending $50-60 bucks on new bearings but $300 is a different thing.

Knowing the tank and pump are this old, is it a bad idea to invest this much money?

Should I take this opportunity to upgrade to a new compressor? Even though this compressor is a 2 stage, it only puts out 12.4 cfm at 100 psi which a lot less than current offerings.

If I bought a new compressor I would stick with a 5 hp 2 stage 80 gal tank and go with a Champion, Quincy or Saylor Beall.

With one of these compressors could I use the same electrical hookup as the current compressor?


Decisions decisions......

 

[sberry]

Ok, I am only speculating but take a good look at the motor and see if there is a fix, in this case may be good to ferret out a shop. I was in one a while back and they even had a bunch of stuff new on the shelf which was priced right considering it was relatively retail.

 

[sberry]

This is what is called a mechanics compressor, a bit smaller than true 5 hp that is for auto body guys. A super shrewd thrifty operator can make it work. It needs 30% for professional use for sanding and any help sandblasting one can get.
The one you have is great for air tools and even to blow up a hi pressure truck tire.
You could be seeing a bearing out now if it has seen a lot of work. 300$ gets air again today if that is an issue. I might be looking for a deal on a better unit if I was a shopper type in the mean time and in the end retire this to backup/demand unit if I was highly dependent on air.
I have 2, an old one as a slave and actually used it while I had a motor problem or 2. I had 2 issues, first bearings, one I didn't have on hand and then fooling around must have disturbed old cap. I bought it wholesale, about 30$ and fixed another problem in one of the circuits.
To tell the truth one of the things has made me a better mechanic is simple and not really braniac but become willing to realize its only slightly more work to take it apart, sometimes to the root and not bust it along the way. I can remove a broken screw in a piece others have problems with, they are off like a shot to the store at the first chance to toss 100 at it and then find out later that would have been all right and now they don't have the money to fix the real problem and it may even be worth going back on occasion to improve later.
We just got a frozen tractor running. We messed with it for an hour and then decided to tear it apart, wouldn't have run if we did get it moving. Cleaned a bunch, unstuck one valve, another had rust in one face which we ground, re used the head gasket and silicone all the rest.
I stopped fiddling with the fuel tank, took it off, cleaned a complete clog and water gas about 6 yrs old, the carb was rusty but did a rude clean to get fuel thru it, only new part I used was a new fuel hose a foot long and some gas and silicone. 2 men a full day and I didn't want to wait on parts or invest till I knew it would even run.
Ebvery system in it broke, we tune it, check plugs and give it every chance it could and the fugger start right up.

 

[BillK]

Dan,
Don't know if you have an electric motor shop near you but that is where I would take it and get a quote. There are not that many of them left around though

 

[KDXSR5]

I do not have an opinion on the fix vs buy, but if you do decide to buy a new compressor, I would reccomend using your old tank as extra air storage. I have done this in the past, and it is awesome to have such a large surplus of air. Plus your equipment cycles on and off less often, so you don't have as much start up wear.

 

[sanddan]

The plastic piece that I broke is an insulator (has that brown color) that holds what might be the brushes. I think getting a service part for it is not possible due to age and the fact they don't make this motor anymore.

The question I have is, spend $300 on a new motor knowing that the pump and tank are at least 20 yrs old and it was only $700 new to boot or spend $2000-2300 on a new but top of the line compressor.

To make matters worse (or better?), the wife already gave the green light to spend what I feel I need to.

 

[sberry]

buying a cheap one cost 700 for 20 yrs. Assuming similar lifespan another 800 might go 20 yrs too?

 

[NUTTSGT]

To make matters worse (or better?), the wife already gave the green light to spend what I feel I need to.

Take the money and run. Looks like it's time to upgrade. . . . with the wife's blessing.

 

[ZipSnafu]

If the wife says go ahead and do it... I would buy the new compressor. You don't know how many more hours you have left on the pump and the extra CFM is always welcome.

 

[Davefr]

The plastic piece that I broke is an insulator (has that brown color) that holds what might be the brushes. I think getting a service part for it is not possible due to age and the fact they don't make this motor anymore.

The question I have is, spend $300 on a new motor knowing that the pump and tank are at least 20 yrs old and it was only $700 new to boot or spend $2000-2300 on a new but top of the line compressor.

To make matters worse (or better?), the wife already gave the green light to spend what I feel I need to.

There are no brushes on these motors. Is the broken part the board that has the centrifical switch? Can you post a closeup image. I'm thinking it could be repaired.

However if wifey has authorized purchase of a new compressor then rush out and buy one before she changes her mind. A Champion Centurion II might be a good choice.

 

[sberry]

I fix a lot of **** like this because I don't want to wait. That was my point in another babble about a tractor project. It wouldn't be done running if I would have bothered to stop to wait for a part, sometimes easier to make or repair them. You cant always do it so there needs to be that disclaimer but I did 2 major jobs this week and didn't buy anything substantial. Its worth a little effort, if it works it can really be a 300$ repair in some sense. Especially if it saves 3 grand and a guy can get back to work, doing what,,, fixing broke stuff,,, ha

 

[matt_i]

If its inside the motor & plastic it might be repairable with epoxy. Or find a friend with a lathe and see if a new part can be machined...

 

[KDXSR5]

I fix a lot of **** like this because I don't want to wait. That was my point in another babble about a tractor project. It wouldn't be done running if I would have bothered to stop to wait for a part, sometimes easier to make or repair them. You cant always do it so there needs to be that disclaimer but I did 2 major jobs this week and didn't buy anything substantial. Its worth a little effort, if it works it can really be a 300$ repair in some sense. Especially if it saves 3 grand and a guy can get back to work, doing what,,, fixing broke stuff,,, ha

So what you are saying is, "farmer" it up? Haha. Done that several times to get by until the correct fix can be done. Sometimes I get surprised and the farmer fix ends up holding, and the correct part just sits on the shelf. Other times, I shouldn't have wasted time/money/effort in even trying to fix the broken component.

 

[sanddan]

I think that my main issue is spending $300 for a new motor to fix a 20 yr old compressor that may still squeal when running after all. I wouldn't pay more than $400 for a used compressor that only put out 12.4 cfm, even with a new motor, when I could get a new one for not much more.

I thought about trying to fix the broken plastic part but the glued edge would rub on another part. I think the crack could mess up the proper function.

Anyway, I hate "farmer fix's" so it's either take the risk with a new motor or bite the bullet and just get a new compressor. (ouch)

 

[94EG8]

Just based on the fact that it doesn't sound like the pump was ever anything spectacular I'd replace the unit with something better. Honestly 12.4CFM sounds more like a single stage numbers wise.

 

[sberry]

So what you are saying is, "farmer" it up? Haha. Done that several times to get by until the correct fix can be done. Sometimes I get surprised and the farmer fix ends up holding, and the correct part just sits on the shelf. Other times, I shouldn't have wasted time/money/effort in even trying to fix the broken component.

I agree, it can to either way. if I am fixing a lot of problems in a day it can really add up and I often do it if it is fast and prevents me from being stopped. I reused head gasket the other day, worked fine.

 

[sberry]

This comp is about 3 hp. It's not a real dog due to design of being 2 stage, way different than single with the same numbers. This will deliver air to a regulator at turn on pressure the same point a single would be turning off.

 

[sberry]

with a turn on pressure of 90 or so on single a 1/2 impact will be getting 45 or so at the gun down 50 ft of hose on a reel. A 2 stage turns on at 135 and supplies a hose at that with regulator delivers near 90 at the input of the tool. A sender will start to lose power here but the pump will be running, against single not till 90 and 50 percent power.
The 12cfm pump will not be able to keep up with 18cfm sender at turn on of the unit, this would take 5 hp for professional DA. with impact on auto and car work 12 keeps up fine, good size tank at hi pressure will provide good punch, just wind quickly.

 

[sanddan]

A positive update.

I found a small shop that rebuilds electric motors and took the box of parts over there to see if he could find a replacement for the broken piece.

It was a cool shop, very old school. He had a bin full of the parts, the support for the centrifugal switch. After trying several he found one that he thought would work. We also replaced the 2 bearings and I had him reassemble it so it could be tested.

Total cost for 2 bearings, 1 used part and reassembly and bench test, $40!

All in all it was a great visit to a shop that looked like it been there for many years.

The motor is reinstalled and running perfect. I ordered a new belt also, which I will pickup tomorrow.

 

[Algoma56]

Perfect. Great repair in an otherwise throw-it-away world. Always like to see if an item can be fixed somehow rather than discarded.
As a side note, a buddy stopped by Tuesday, and commented on the old 6" grinder mounted on the bench. We bought one each from a traveling tool vendor(off-shore stuff) 35 years ago. Told him I replaced the bearings on it about 12 years ago, and still use it today.

 

[sanddan]

I did a 30 sec video of the new motor running. Nothing fancy.

 

[johnnyga]

i took a old 5hp motor to the shop 135 dollars replaced the bearing(both) and replaced a bad capacitor. also repainted the winding.

 

[sanddan]

It's nice to have shops that can do this type of work.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

If you can make the switch to a 56 fr motor with the same specs it's probably about $200.00...

Tommy

 

[Nexussian]

While fixing your own compressor is likely the most economical option for now, it's hard to say in the long run, without seeing the compressor in question.

If however you are interested in replacing it for increased capacity and greater longevity, and you are looking in the $2000 - $3000, I've been researching exactly that.

The best value I have found is either the NAPA PN: NAC 82378VATFF or the PN: NAC 82378VAT.

My 3 most favorite things about them are:

1) Air Compressor Pump Material Cast Iron

2) Air Compressor Pump RPM 600

3) Air Compressor SCFM Rating 24 At 175 psi

Cast Iron means it should last, 600 RPM means the pump makes less noise and should last longer, who doesn't like more airflow.

I'm not usually one for "store brand" or "house brand" but it is their industrial product line, and when I download the product manual and parts book, they are both marked up as Atlas Copco, which is at least as good a brand as Quincy or Saylor Beal.

Only question is what if anything did Napa change (I'm sure they are built to spec).

The FF costs a bit more, but it has an after cooler, automating drain and a few other bits as I recall.

A friend has a shop, he bought a NAC 82378VAT as an emergency replacement when his shop compressor quit unexpectedly.

His only gripe was his newer compressor was somewhat louder than the old 50s vintage compressor that quit. Apparently the motor on the old compressor "puts out too much smoke before it blows the breaker."

Older compressor turns (turned ) 380 ~ 400.

I suggested a pair of Solberg filter silencers, he got a pair from Grainger and claims they make an 8-10 DB difference over the factory installed filters, getting it close to, or almost as quiet as the old one.

While not quite as quiet, he says the sound is much less objectionable as it isn't as "sharp" any more.

 

[sberry]

Great repair. Well wo0rth the look. Now is the time to simply keep an eye open for a deal if it swings along while you are not under pressure. Tip the guy 10$ on something like that or take him a gift, too cheap and they wont be around.

 

[zmotorsports]

Great job on the repair Dan. I am much more a fan of repair, rebuild, reuse or repurpose than merely replace.

Mike.

 

[sberry]

If I replaced every part that wasn't working I came across would never get anything done or afford to do it. It is also too slow. I had 2 masters on a job for a day last week andf they used 5$ in materials, fixed every problem they came across to get the thinjgg going. If we would have stopped at the first issue it would still be sitting waiting for parts at quite an expense.
One main reason I fix stuff like that is that I can get it going NOW, don't have to wait for others or parts.

 

[sanddan]

Great job on the repair Dan. I am much more a fan of repair, rebuild, reuse or repurpose than merely replace.

Mike.

Thanks Mike.

I'm also a fan of spending $40 instead of $2000,

 

[zmotorsports]

Thanks Mike.

I'm also a fan of spending $40 instead of $2000,

Agreed. Me too.

Mike.

 

[redmondjp]

Thanks for the report and glad it's up and running again. So, when is the last time you changed the oil in the pump?