compressor help

[caleb90]

Hello all new to forum. i am in a search for a new compressor and need some help. my current rig is a cheapy HF 21gal that i bought 10 years ago when i was young and didnt have my own shop. built my 30x40 shop 3 years ago and have been dealing with waiting for air ever since. i do alot of automotive work, mostly impacts drills and die grinders. hardly ever use a da sander or blast cabinet. been looking for a new 60gal compressor. at first i was thinking a husky one from homedepot but they have crappy reviews, then looked at tractor supply and the IR brands there have **** reviews. Im trying to stay under 1g but i keep thinking buy once cry once so ive upped my price to 1300. id like a 2 stage but do i really need it? idk if id notice if i didnt have one. i have 4 machines in mind that im going to post links to. let me know what yall think! thanks

 

[caleb90]

all right cant post links yet so will write each one out.
first is napa #NAC 824276VAT single stage 135psi 12.35 scfm @90 psi weighs 230lbs costs 699
sencond is napa #NAC 82356VAT 2 stage scfm 13.8 At 165 psi / 15.4 At 100 psi weighs 340lbs cost 1,030.99
third is napa # NAC 82346VAT scfm 13.8 @ 165 psi weighs 300lbs cost is 1150.00
forth is the quincy QT-54 scfm 15.4 @175 psi weighs 450lb and costs 1,299

 

[caleb90]

i ruled out the HF 60 gallon as i cant find parts for them. also ruled out all the big box store single stages that are priced 700 and under. for to many bad reviews and cant see them lasting

 

[RacerX]

Out of those choices, Quincy hands down the best choice. More scfm, dual stage, better built and history of a quality unit.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

 

[caleb90]

i understand the quincy is the best out of those choices. but given my usage do i really need it? do i really need a 2 stage and not just a quality single stage?

 

[sberry]

This is a place a little extra juice is worth it. A comp is long term, stuff changes. The "quality" of the comp probaby isn't much an issue. I know guys have got by with single just fine, but,,, also lots save a little on the unit and try forever to make up for its shortcomings. Can save on secondary piping, hoses work better as pressure can be regulated to provide consistent supply and make up for losses.
With a single air is good for tools right at the top of the cycle where 2 is good all the way thru, less cycling for mechanic tools and it's probably not an issue here but is good for truck tires.

 

[sberry]

Something else to consider but it's not a 1000$ decision or a 1200$ one but 200$. If you are going to pipe the place use 1/2 vs 3/4, save 100 back in fittings, 2 stage is made for hose reels, consistent pressure. Made for impacts.

 

[caleb90]

99% of the time im running 1/2 drive impacts. The main reason i included the napa units is because i have a great relationship with my local napa. just not sure how there compressors are. cant find any info on there duty cycle and pump life

 

[sberry]

You will not wear any of them out doing mechanic work. Takes a long time to put a run hour on one that way. Sanding and wire wheel is what adds up but even in a hobby type shop it doesn't add up to much.

 

[caleb90]

After some digging, the two napa 2 stage units i listed appear to be the same or near same machine as the belaire 216v

 

[American Locomotive]

For the price difference, I would just get the Quincy. Plus, you have guaranteed support that way.

 

[caleb90]

the biggest air hog i ever for see myself getting will be a tire machine. getting tired n to old to be swinging them by hand. either a good shape used coats center post or if i cant find one a newer rim clamp

 

[Schurkey]

Most air tools need 90 psi AT THE TOOL with the tool RUNNING. (Virtually nobody puts a pressure gauge on the tool inlet to see what the tool is truly receiving.)

That means ~130 psi in the tank in many cases.

That means shiity single-stage compressors give you under-powered air tools the moment the tank pressure drops. By the time the compressor kicks on again, you've got ~100 psi in the tank, maybe 70 or less at the tool.

Of course you need two-stage. The tank goes from 175 to whatever kick-on pressure is, but that's likely to be higher than the 130 you need to get 90 at the tool. The tool always runs at full pressure.

There's some single-stage compressors that go to ~150 or so. I have no experience with them. My impression is that they're a gimmick--an ordinary compressor with a higher-pressure switch on it; and consequently higher-heat, more moisture in the air, and reduced life. But I don't know that for sure.

 

[matt_i]

We don't know your mystery location but if within reasonable drive of Cleveland, at HGR Surplus there's a used Quincy QTV5-80 for $500 Asking.

Its a 3phase motor but if you can come up with a 5hp x 240vac x 1 phase motor for under $800 you're money ahead.

The Quincy and IR T-30 (not the TSC versions) are designs that have a lot of hard miles on them. The quality of mfg is also an issue but both of those have multi-year warranties if you get their synthetic oil packages at the time of purchase.

 

[sberry]

I realize there are deals to be had and it's great for some people but you want a project or want to use it? While it might be a better machine in the end the cost difference might not be worth the effort. Uy something hook and play, ready to go, designed for it. I like The point Shurky made about singles being hopped up at 150. I think the effeciency drops off at about 130 or so, most listed for that or 135. For a mechanic a bit more economy model wouldn't bother me,,, the Napa has a good grip on this, they kind of know what customers need,, but, there are so many models some of the other guys that posted here a bit more familiar with them.

 

[sberry]

The quincy may be worth the juice, not sure a mechanic would ever notice the difference. You are buying new, don't worry about parts and rebuilding it,,, if you really can manage to wear it out replace it.
Been down this road, still got the stuff, still works. I remember the comp expert telling me this decades ago when I was all up in a knot about pressure oil, etc, every question I could think of,, he finally stopped me and said that,,,, said why spend 2 x when we never seen one of these worn out, unless you running it continious 24/7 it won't matter. Still got the same oil in it I set it up with, easily could have done with one 1/2 price of it yet.

 

[TXST8tj]

Don't rule out the HF 60 gallon. It was/is made by the same people as Quincy and Belaire with the same parts.

I have their 29 gallon unit, while not in the same category as you are talking about here, has a Marathon brand motor, which is arguably better than what many other brands use.

 

[caleb90]

Don't rule out the HF 60 gallon. It was/is made by the same people as Quincy and Belaire with the same parts.

I have their 29 gallon unit, while not in the same category as you are talking about here, has a Marathon brand motor, which is arguably better than what many other brands use.

I looked into the HF unit, but decided agaisnt it for two reasons. 1st i couldnt find much for parts, 2nd with there current price and after you add in the 2 year warranty. you might just as well buy a name brand

 

[Robbie B]

We just replaced an old industrial Quincy at work last year. If the home jobbers are anything like as good as that poor abused thing then I’d take the Quincy hands down.


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[Marctrees]

caleb - What "parts" couldn't you find for the HF ?

It's the best value out there.

Marc

 

[Marctrees]

After some digging, the two napa 2 stage units i listed appear to be the same or near same machine as the belaire 216v

The HF has the same ABAC italian made pump as the Belaire.

Marc

 

[Marctrees]

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=361437&highlight=compressor

 

[caleb90]

caleb - What "parts" couldn't you find for the HF ?

It's the best value out there.

Marc

Did a quick search and couldnt come up with much, and we all know the stores dont carry any parts.i understand it might have the same pump as the belaire or napa, but are they built to less of a standard with sub par parts to keep costs down? plus like i said with there current price, after you add taxs and pay for the warranty your almost at 1100 bucks. if i were going to spend that much its either going to be the napa brand even if it is the same thing, but atleast im helping a local buiness or its the quincy.

 

[caleb90]

so i talked my self out of the napa units, for the price of them i might as well go with the better quincy unit as stated before. my real delema is my shop is a hobby shop. do i really need to spend that much and need that much compressor? yes i can grow into if needed but can i pinch pennys? idk. looked at the kobalt 60 gallon 2 stage, made in china 3 yr warranty and will forfull my needs for half cost. unless it fails out of warranty, then to fix will cost more than a new one. which at that point i should have spent the coin in the first place.. really going in circles with this

 

[Marctrees]

You now have the info that I linked from other thread about the HF comp.

Strongly suggest you consider that.

The ABAC pump is the SAME ABAC used on many comps, NOT some "low line" cheaper version.

And stop thinking that cause it says Quincy on it it means anything good, just like the IR name, it was whored out some years ago and all their approx sub 1300$ units have NOTHING in common w the more expensive ones but the name.

All the sub ballpark $1300 units have chinese or india made pumps, and you pay more for the name.

HF unit as explained in the linked thread IS best bang for the buck value.

Marc

 

[Marctrees]

I do not know, but betcha the Kobalt has a chinese motor.

Marc

 

[Schurkey]

so i talked my self out of the napa units, for the price of them i might as well go with the better quincy unit as stated before. my real delema is my shop is a hobby shop. do i really need to spend that much and need that much compressor? yes i can grow into if needed but can i pinch pennys? idk. looked at the kobalt 60 gallon 2 stage, made in china 3 yr warranty and will forfull my needs for half cost. unless it fails out of warranty, then to fix will cost more than a new one. which at that point i should have spent the coin in the first place.. really going in circles with this

I bought a "4-horsepower" 20-gallon compressor my first time. Since it ran on 120v "house current" it was really more like 2-horsepower. I could run an air hammer for about three seconds.

I thought I had really moved-up when I bought a 5-horse, 60-gallon single stage. And in some respects, I really did. 240volt; not only did I have to buy the compressor, I had to pay to put an outlet in the garage to use with the compressor.

The poor thing would never shut off when I connected my die grinder and tried to port cylinder heads, or grind...anything. An air hammer didn't bleed it dry, but only because they're more intermittent-use tools than a grinder. The compressor ran constantly, loads of water in the air. Running an impact wrench or an air ratchet was easier, though. Still had water in the air. And my tools never got the air pressure they really needed, although it was way better than the 20-gallon.

Eventually, I got a 5-horse, 80 gallon, 2-stage. Dry air, doesn't run all the time, quieter, my tools are properly powerful...it ended all my complaints about air pressure.

I had to buy three compressors to get one that actually did the job for me. Be smarter than I am. Buy the good compressor right away. Buy a proper coalescing air filter/regulator. Plumb your shop using METAL PIPE or tubing--NOT PLASTIC, and not a bigass air hose snaking from the compressor to wherever you need to use your air tools. Don't forget the water traps, and actually drain them. If it's like my shop, the coalescing filter takes care of all the water except what collects in the bottom of the compressor tank--none of the other water traps ever had water in them except on rainy days.

NOBODY ever complained that they bought a too-big air compressor.

 

[caleb90]

I do not know, but betcha the Kobalt has a chinese motor.

Marc

kobalt is pretty much 100% chinese assembled in usa. the hf unit you speak of is the same as the napa units i talked my self out of. after tax n buying warranty its the same price as the napa units. weighs more than 150lbs less than the quincy, which means quality is lacking some wheres on it

 

[Marctrees]

Make sure you are actually getting actual weight compared to shipping weight.

I know the Quincy crate is very substantial, hence heavy.

Marc

 

[94EG8]

I had to buy three compressors to get one that actually did the job for me. Be smarter than I am. Buy the good compressor right away. Buy a proper coalescing air filter/regulator. Plumb your shop using METAL PIPE or tubing--NOT PLASTIC, and not a bigass air hose snaking from the compressor to wherever you need to use your air tools. Don't forget the water traps, and actually drain them. If it's like my shop, the coalescing filter takes care of all the water except what collects in the bottom of the compressor tank--none of the other water traps ever had water in them except on rainy days.

NOBODY ever complained that they bought a too-big air compressor.

I will echo this. I was a little luckier in that the first 2 were actually free but a similar path or progression:

small oil-less compressor, it sure beat using a bicycle pump to pump up bike tires, and it was great for blowing out small carburetors. It really wasn't big enough for anything else. Ended up with a free 3hp 60 gallon CH single stage consumer unit with a broken reed valve. Very cheap fix and very happy to get it. It was great for running an impact and an air chisel, but no good for running a die grinder, DA, or a sandblaster and always had water in it. Finally went out and bought a used 60 gallon 2 stage 5hp and it's mostly adequate, although I did buy a used Chinook pump, 7.5hp motor and 80 gallon receiver to build something a little bigger to really keep up with a DA and sandblaster.

True 5hp 2 stage is where it's at. Nice dry air and able to keep up to what the average hobbyist is doing.

 

[caleb90]

Make sure you are actually getting actual weight compared to shipping weight.

I know the Quincy crate is very substantial, hence heavy.

Marc

good point! im just going by what napa HF and aircompressor direct list on there web site. will look into it more

 

[caleb90]

quincy unit weight is 430lbs ship weight is 475., HF unit is 280lbs. some thing is lacking some wheres.

 

[Schurkey]

quincy unit weight is 430lbs ship weight is 475., HF unit is 280lbs. some thing is lacking some wheres.

First Guess: Quincy pump spins ~800 rpm, motor turns ~1750 rpm.

Harbor Junk pump and motor spin twice as fast, pump is half as big, twice as noisy. Motor is half as big, gets "5 hp" rating based on half the torque, double the RPM. Pump and motor wear out twice as quickly.

 

[caleb90]

The HF unit is a belaire 216v, just seems to be built cheaper and has less options. If you get floating around on the web, you end up finding alot of rebranded belaire 216v compressors. some appear to be the same thing and other have a few features the others dont. Like the napa unit i looked at had an air cooler on the back side of pump. I also wouldnt be supprised if sub par parts were used to make the HF units to keep the cost down. not saying there not the same parts as whats on the belaire but parts that didnt meet there specs and were rejected. kind of how the cheap online auto part places buy out of spec bearings and use them for wheel bearings that cost half as much as say timken ac delco ect.

 

[caleb90]

For the price range i am in, it looks like the quincy gives you the best bang for the buck. current price on the Hf unit is 849, plus 8% sales tax and the 2 year warranty the total price is $1,076 roughly. At this point im stuck between cheaping out and trying the kobalt or i am going for broke and buying the quincy. Just trying to justify spending 1,300 on some thing that wont be used every day, maybe a few times a month during the summer and months with out use during the winter.

 

[caleb90]

the closest thing i can find to match the performance of the quincy and not cost more it this oem tools compressor. https://www.mobiledistributorsupply.com/4-5hp-60g-vertical-150-psi-max-1
autozone sells them, 2 year warranty quality is unknown. they also offer a rebaged belaire 216v aswell

 

[iamrfixit]

Don't cheap out!

I upgraded a few times before I finally got a compressor that had enough, I have 2 stage 80 gallon now. Paying for numerous upgrades was expensive and pretty wasteful. I wouldn't even look at a single stage unit. The advantages of two stage are numerous. The Quincy's are well made, cast iron pump and baldor motor, it will last a lifetime.

Higher tank pressure of a two stage will store more cubic feet of air. The same size tank stores about 50% more at 175psi versus 125 psi. Having the higher tank pressure of a two stage allows you to regulate your line pressure and keep it consistent. For good performance most tools require 90psi min, AT THE TOOL with the trigger pulled. That's impossible if your single stage compressor is cycling between 90 and 125 psi. You'll end up with 60 psi at the running tool and lousy performance most of the time. I set my line regulator about 120 psi, the compressor cycles between 150-175 psi so line pressure stays at 120 and keeps 90-100 psi at the tool in use.

A tire machine will not really require a ton of air volume wise, but it does need adequate and consistent pressure. If you get a rim clamp most of those will use an electric motor to turn the table. Any high speed tool like a die grinder or cut off tool will work a compressor much harder. I can run a die grinder continuously, at 17cfm my compressor can easily keep up. Two stage units are also much more suited to long run times as the air gets cooled between the stages.

Get the Quincy, you won't be sorry. Buy once, cry once.

 

[jpaw]

I went through this last year and ended up with an Ingersoll T-30 2340L5-V.
I had an Ingersoll T-10 for almost 25 years and it developed a rust hole due to my laziness in draining the tank. It rarely had any water in the lines so I just figured it was fine.
I'm an auto technician and always "got by" with the single stage T-10 at home. Now having a 2 stage it's like being at work.
Endless hours were spent researching what would best fit my needs. Although I would have preferred an 80 gallon tank the jump in price wasn't justifiable to me. So it was narrowed down to a Quincy or Ingersoll Rand.
The 2340L5-V is a step up from the typical box store compressor and is what I would call light industrial.
Found it on sale online at TSC but they charged to ship it to the store, a quick chat and Home Depot price matched and ship it to the store for free.

So my advice is to buy the best that you can justify and afford for your needs. If you maintain and drain it, it should conceivably last a lifetime.

 

[Pontiac787]

What did you end up going with? The specs on the Napa 82-346 and the Belaire 216V are very similar. Both are about $1,100 and look like decent compressors. The thing that gets me with the Quincy QT-54 is that you need to spend almost $200 on the oil change kit to get the 2 year warranty so it is really a $1,500 compressor.

I'm thinking I should call around to some HF stores to see if they have any of their 2 stage compressors left!