Compressor motor, all the smoke got out

[383 240z]

I have this compressor. http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/ingersoll-randreg;-5hp-air-compressor-80-gal Your standard 5hp 80 gal vertical IR compressor. I was working on the truck and noticed I was running out of air. I checked the breaker it was in the off position, I re-set it the motor started to turn, then ran for about 1 min. That's when I started seeing the smoke get loose. I shut it down at that point.

That's the back story. My question is I plan on taking it to the rebuild shop and see what that is gonna cost me. If it is to much, I will be looking for a new motor. Question to the GJ, what would you replace it with?? I know there is NO WAY to know with out seeing it, but what do you guess a re-build will cost?? Keith

 

[Thorold]

I've seen a lot of motors running on the start windings that will do this.

Take it apart and check for "welded" contacts.

Of course if the smoke is out and, even if that is the issue, i can't say how safe it'll be.

 

[383 240z]

Bump for the day walkers. Keith

 

[OccupantRJ]

Take it to the shop and have them check it for you. Then you will have the info to make a decision, along with prices of both rebuilt and new from them. Check Grainger for pricing before you go.

 

[jwith68]

I'd definitely let the motor shop guide your decision. If it is to get a new one, Surplus Center has a decent deal on a motor that is probably really close to the original on your TS4N5.

http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electr...-VAC-3450RPM-EMERSON-AIR-COMPRESSOR-MOTOR.axd

 

[G_P]

Unless it is a special motor with non a non standard shaft or mounting system it will almost always be cheaper to buy a new/used motor than to have it rebuilt.

 

[ozyborn]

Me? I am spoiled. I would just walk over to my cabinet and grab another 6.5 hp or large motor and toss on it. To think my wife thinks I am crazy because I kept all those motors from farm auctions. If I got rid of them then I would need one. Have a spare around and it never is needed.
But when the magic white smoke has left the motor. Replace it. Not much more than having it rebuilt. Just have to look around.

 

[JTG]

I had issues with my compressor motor a few months ago. Same thing, I went to check it and the breaker was off. The difference is mine sparked like crazy when I tried to turn it on. Buying a replacement motor wasn't an option for me since it had a unique shaft. I took it apart and found out there was a ring around the end bearing that slipped loose. I replaced both bearing for $17 and it running better than before.

 

[H.G. Wells]

My cheapo unit did something similar and I pulled the back plate off and found that one of the wire connectors had shaken loose and was arcing. Staked it tight and now the compressor is mounted to the floor on hockey pucks to cushion. As you said it is hard to tell without seeing it.

 

[383 240z]

I'm home for the next few days. Hope to get it off the tank and opened up. I'm not a motor guy. I barely know a commutater from and armature. If I see anything amiss, I'll be sure to post a few pics. Don't have much $$$ left after replacing the front bumper on my truck. Some POS pulled a hit and run on it. Of course I could not replace it with stock. Here is what I went with.

Keith

 

[marinusdees]

Recently priced a 5 hp Baldor 1750 rpm on ebay for $325 free shipping. 1 1/8"shaft. Brand new. If it needs rewinding, this will be cheaper. Grainger is not inexpensive. Only for reference. Just because it smoked doesn't mean it needs rewinding. A good motor shop will give you good advice. A not-so-good one will not. How to tell? Who rebuilds most of the **** pumps in your neighborhood? Any septic pumping service should tell you. Also, don't necessarily take the first opinion you get.

 

[38Chevy454]

I have no idea on quality, but happened to notice in my local HF that they now sell electric motors. Fractional hp up to 2-3 hp such as a compressor motor.

 

[Mustangmike66]

I just purchased a 1750 rpm 5hp motor from granger and it was $600. If you can rebuild it I'm sure it's going to be a lot cheaper than that. Let us know what the outcome is, it may help us down the road.

 

[OccupantRJ]

Tractor Supply has 5 hp motors in the $250 range, but they are 3450 rpm.

 

[383 240z]

Here is the info plate for the motor in question.

 

[383 240z]

First I pulled the cap covers. Here is what I found. The other one was nice and clean, no corrosion or anything. Not even dusty. There are 2 caps on this motor. The nice one orange and black wires, the iffy one has red and black wires. Keith

 

[383 240z]

Here is the info I found on the cap in question:

 

[383 240z]

I started to remove the end bells, I put a witness mark on both ends. I pulled the the long bolts that hold the unit together. When it didn't just slide free, I decided I was in over my head, I then just put it all back together. Figured I would wait and see what you all thought about the cap. I did look inside with a high powered light, the shellac on the armature looked good, same with the other windings I could see. Did not smell that burnt motor/melted shellac odor. Maybe I could just replace the caps? I've heard of starting caps, but what is the other one? Is this something I could swap out? Or should I leave it to a pro? Keith

 

[pete379]

I think one is a "start" cap, and the other a "run" cap. I'm not sure about that though.

pete

 

[383 240z]

I ran the numbers on the cap through Google, the upper one take me to a "Motor Start Capacitor, MFD Rating 189-227, Voltage 110-125, 60/50 Hz, Round, Dia 1 7/16 In, Height 2 3/4 In, Dual 1/4 In Male Terminals, Temp Range -40 to 65 C, 20 Starts per Hour, Max Power Factor 10 %" The lower one was a dead end. My guess is that is a serial number. Keith

 

[383 240z]

Here is what turns up on e-bay. Sure looks similar:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NUEVA-GENER...t=BI_Control_Systems_PLCs&hash=item27d1196382

Keith

 

[383 240z]

bump. Keith

 

[thecj3man]

My IR with an Emerson motor did a similiar number this spring. The start capacitor let go. IR would not help me source another without buying a motor. I ended up purchasing one I found on Google and it cured the issue for a few months. Towards the end of August the compressor started acting up again and it let the magic smoke out. I pulled it apart and found that one section of the windings was badly burnt. After doing a little Google searching I realized that many people have had issues with these motors.

I bought a new a 5HP at Northern Tool, its a USA made Leeson, that was a direct fit replacement.

 

[Aahz]

Our experience (as a company that services air compressors) is that single phase motors (usually found on compressors up to 7.5 hp) are not worth rebuilding. If it was a 3-phase motor it's a totally different story, but usually you end up replacing the mag starter rather than the motor.

If you are burning up motors, chances are the compressor isn't large enough to handle the demand you are putting on it. Most of the residential compressors (and small industrial reciprocating types) are are designed for a 30-40% duty cycle, 50% on a higher end industrial version. If it's running 5 minutes out of 10, it's probably time to slow down the workload a bit and let the compressor rest a while. Another reason for it to run hard is a common refrain on here, water in the tank. As water fills up the air tank, there is less room for air, leading to short cycles times on the motor and pump.

 

[383 240z]

Thanks everybody. I should be able to drop the motor off at the rebuild shop on Tuesday. Keeping my fingers crossed that they can swap the cap and get me a few more months out of this one until I can get some cash together for a new better motor. Keith

 

[383 240z]

Aahz, This is the first time I've had an issue with this compressor. It is about 5 years old, I'm pretty good about draining it after a day in the shop. That is after I put an easy to access ball valve in. Keith

 

[383 240z]

I was able to drop the motor off today at the rebuilders. He seems pretty confident it will be a simple rebuild. He did however quote me the cost of a new quality motor and a cheap import one. New quality motor is $400. Cheap one will be $280. He told me that TSC carries the same one for $250. Said it will be 2-3 days before he will be able to look at it. Grrr. Keith

 

[DIC]

I always thought If you let the smoke out its junk

 

[383 240z]

Well it was the cap. However it took the windings out. GRRRR!!!! Anyway I'm having it rewound at the motor shop. $215 will get me a rewound motor with all new bearings, caps, and all other wear items. Said it will be good as new. I put that motor into service on 2-28-2007. I say it failed way to early. I should have air again early next week. Keith

 

[383 240z]

What is it they say about the "Best laid plans"? Just got off the phone with my motor guy. It can't be rebuilt. Off to buy a new motor. Grrrr!!!!! Keith

 

[EOC_Jason]

Yeah, these days it just isn't worth the cost or effort to rebuild a motor smaller than like 10HP... I don't know if their labor or materials cost or what has gone up, but back in the old days you could take any sized motor just about and they could rebuild it... NOT TODAY!

P.S. When comparing capacitors, it's important to match the capacitance (MFD) and voltage. Most capacitors will physically look the same size, but the specs can vary widely...

 

[Zeke]

What is it they say about the "Best laid plans"? Just got off the phone with my motor guy. It can't be rebuilt. Off to buy a new motor. Grrrr!!!!! Keith

I was afraid of that when I started reading this thread (today). I also wondered if the motor man was going to charge you a bench fee for taking the motor apart. Seems to me that if he said he could rebuild it and then reversed his thoughts that there would be no charge.

But to ward off people who will bring a motor into a shop and hear that it's going to cost $215 (plus tax I assume) and then run over to HF and buy one, the shop pretty much has to get some equity out of you.

So, how did it go?

 

[383 240z]

This is a small one man shop. I called him up, he said bring it by. He took it apart and gave me a price and said it will be ready in about a week. I got a call today that he cant get the windings to lay down right. I stopped over to pick up the pulley asked him what I owed for his time, he insisted on no charge so I left a $20 on his bench.

Anyway, I've spent the better part of my day off looking for a new motor.
Grainger wants $800 for a close replacement (shaft size is different). China made Dayton
Local supply house wants $430 for the exact same Emmerson. After what I've read on the web, I'm not interested in that option.

I'm scouring the CL ads looking for either a used motor, or complete compressor, I can always use the 2nd tank as an add on to my 80 gal. Keith

 

[383 240z]

What do you guys know about Leeson Motors? Keith

 

[383 240z]

Here is what I'm finding as a suitable replacement:
http://www.ptjindustrial.com/Leeson_Electric_117824_p/117824.htm

What do you guys think? I'm hoping to pull the trigger today. Keith

 

[240sxguy]

I use quite a few leeson motors at work, they seem to be good quality stuff.

 

[EOC_Jason]

What do you guys know about Leeson Motors? Keith

When my compressor motor died a year or two ago, I got a Leeson from Northern Tool to replace it. I was surprised to see it's "Made in USA" on the label...

Been running good for me so far. It is a nicer motor than the one I pulled off...

I'm always kind of leery buying a "used" motor off of CL unless it's *really* cheap...

 

[383 240z]

Yea I was floored when he told me they were US made. Just want to check up on these guys. I got burned once on this compressor once. Not wanting to do that again. Keith

 

[kams1973]

If you have a Tractor Supply nearby, I recommend the motor in the link below. I have used this motor without issue on 5hp projects.

http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/marathon-electricreg%3B-6hp-air-compressor-motor-3450-rpm?cm_vc=-10005#desc-tab

 

[Zeke]

Keith, re that 20 spot, you're a good sport.