compressor piping

[mrgm]

I am replacing my old sch 40 compressor piping with copper. I will be soldering the joints. Then I got thinking, can I use pex with those push fittings? I will be running 3/4" line, about 60' worth. I have seen the aluminum stuff but would like to source locally. I can not find if anyone has tried this? I have a 60 gallon compressor max pressure 175

 

[sberry]

What is the material you are replacing?

 

[sberry]

To tell the truth since this is a replacement you must have a good idea about locations etc but my weapon of choice here is 1/2 black iron. One less size to deal with, in reality it is 5/8 not 1/2 anyway and one less step in the fitting makes it easy to design and even change around. Screwed is super ideal for tailoring and additions.
A lot of piping is rated at 100 ft, some charts are for 60 which is often more realistic average and loss differences are notable at hi volumes and lower pressures.
One of the advantages of 175 air is just this, same as electric, can size down a pipe and still get the work done without significant loss. If you regulate at the end of this 60 for an air gun of 1/2 there will be no loss or less than 1% in the main and the difference between it and a 3/4 even less.
All the real work losses are in the secondary hoses. Where we can turn it up (we have 175 too) you can simply turn it up, with single stage systems and smaller units there just isn't the headroom, for peak performance on the heaviest 1/2 impacts shortening hoses and in some cases a little improvement in fittings will help the top end.
If a guy expects issues could prompt the use of 25 ft reels, put an extra in a small garage. I got a 25 at my hoist. I didn't measure the difference between it and a 50 ft thru a reel on the same line but it is some difference. I wanted to measure the swivel but ran out of interest.

 

[mrgm]

I took down the sch 40 black pipe

 

[jonjon1]

Add up what it is going to cost you, Ill bet you can use the rapidaire for about the same or less and it will be nicer..
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0015A11U2/?tag=atomicindus08-20

I ran that in my garage it works awesome just buy the tees and do it as a loop, its a nice design and flows plenty of air, I use the 1/2 2235 gun with no issue, da's etc...

If you want more flow you can use the larger 3/4 kit I have one of them too...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/RapidAir-3-...hash=item1e7ba9c189&item=130923741577&vxp=mtr

they both are awesome, I prefer how easy the smaller one was but they both work great..

But its a better option than pex, IMO and pex is not as cheap as you would think...
I think copper is way too expensive to run for air lines..

 

[sixty4]

The press on fittings your talking about are they sharkbites by any chance?

 

[mrgm]

The press on fittings your talking about are they sharkbites by any chance?

yes. those are the ones I have seen at Lowes and are the ones I have used in water applications.

 

[mrgm]

Add up what it is going to cost you, Ill bet you can use the rapidaire for about the same or less and it will be nicer..
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0015A11U2/?tag=atomicindus08-20

I ran that in my garage it works awesome just buy the tees and do it as a loop, its a nice design and flows plenty of air, I use the 1/2 2235 gun with no issue, da's etc...

If you want more flow you can use the larger 3/4 kit I have one of them too...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/RapidAir-3-...hash=item1e7ba9c189&item=130923741577&vxp=mtr

they both are awesome, I prefer how easy the smaller one was but they both work great..

But its a better option than pex, IMO and pex is not as cheap as you would think...
I think copper is way too expensive to run for air lines..

cheaper for me to do copper then the aluminum/ flex lines. comes out to about $100 for all copper. If I ever need to mod, I don't have to order anything. I want to source everything locally

 

[sixty4]

yes. those are the ones I have seen at Lowes and are the ones I have used in water applications.

I was reading on another Forum that someone called sharkbite and said they were good to 220psi but do an oil separator so as not to get oil in the fittings. It would go fast but depending on size could get expensive. I would also call for myself before buying to hear it first hand from them.

 

[kbs2244]

What is the pressure rateing on a SharkBite???

 

[mrgm]

I was reading on another Forum that someone called sharkbite and said they were good to 220psi but do an oil separator so as not to get oil in the fittings. It would go fast but depending on size could get expensive. I would also call for myself before buying to hear it first hand from them.

I did note on there site that it says "not for air applications". I just don't see the difference in the water/ air applications.

it may be about the same price to do pex with push fittings vs copper

blahhhhh!!!!!!

 

[sixty4]

Here is a link I found from GJ. http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9279&highlight=sharkbite

 

[mrgm]

Here is a link I found from GJ. http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9279&highlight=sharkbite

should have done a search for "sharkbite"

thanks!

 

[sberry]

A professional plumber worth a pinch of **** would have sold you a black 1/2 pipe job.

 

[mrgm]

A professional plumber worth a pinch of **** would have sold you a black 1/2 pipe job.

I do not want 1/2" black pipe.

1. the pressure lose and head gain. I need a min of 3/4".
2. it rusts and is **** for air pipe- which is why I am removing. (same for galvanized). I need clean air, and clean filters
3. does not dissipate heat very well
4. it is a pain in the *** to install.
5. when I expand off of main line, it will not be a big deal- especially if I can use the shark fittings
6. why would I need to get a plumber involved? I can do this myself

 

[jonjon1]

Why not just use pex crimp fittings?

Wirsbo pex and crimp fittings, a lot cheaper than shark bites, them things are like $7 each

wirsbo no lining pex is good for 160psi at ideal temp... If you set your reg at 110 psi you should be fine...

3/4 is about 40 cents per foot fittings are el cheapo and so are the rings, even the tool is only like $20 now...

 

[mrgm]

will def look at that at Lowes

 

[C96]

I do not want 1/2" black pipe.

1. the pressure lose and head gain. I need a min of 3/4".
2. it rusts and is **** for air pipe- which is why I am removing. (same for galvanized). I need clean air, and clean filters
3. does not dissipate heat very well
4. it is a pain in the *** to install.
5. when I expand off of main line, it will not be a big deal- especially if I can use the shark fittings
6. why would I need to get a plumber involved? I can do this myself

Lol, let’s review what you have stated:

1. the pressure lose and head gain. I need a min of 3/4".
Ok, this is fine. Go big or go home right?

2. it rusts and is **** for air pipe- which is why I am removing. (same for galvanized). I need clean air, and clean filters
Lol, might as well ****-can your air compressor tank too, it’s made of metal and rusts just like the black pipe. Simply changing piping to a different material will not stop the contamination. If you’re having contamination issues in your compressed air it’s because your system is:
1. Not correctly plumbed
2. Not filtered properly
3. You do not maintain the system properly (drain the tank condensation, blow-down the complete piping system along with filters, regulators, etc. daily)

3. does not dissipate heat very well
Quite the contrary, black pipe is one of the best for cooling the air so the water drops out

4. it is a pain in the *** to install.
Agreed, for the inexperienced without the proper tools

5. when I expand off of main line, it will not be a big deal- especially if I can use the shark fittings
Pex and its associated fittings are not rated for compressed air

6. why would I need to get a plumber involved? I can do this myself
Then do it yourself, but use the approved materials for the purpose

Black pipe is still being installed and used today in a variety of commercial / industrial applications without issues. Black pipe is still one of the most rugged systems available; it will last a lifetime and perform flawlessly with proper installation and maintenance

 

[gregtwojeeps]

http://www.northerntool.com/images/product/400x400/209/20923_400x400.jpg

On sale now with the 150 ft of tubing at Northern Tool for $180.00. At work the large maintenance shop uses it with their 80 gallon air tank with a true 5 HP compressor motor filling it with air. NO problems with the system and the mechanics love it for its flexibility in moving around outlet connections. jmo

 

[RAYJAY]

I took down the sch 40 black pipe

why.........

 

[csp]

Pex-al-pex is rated for use in compressed air systems.

 

[RAYJAY]

A professional plumber worth a pinch of **** would have sold you a black 1/2 pipe job.

3/4 main line / 1/2 drops

good link here follow it and no water problems ever

http://www.tptools.com/tech-metal-piping.dlp

 

[sberry]

The need for 3/4 mains is in body shops with multiple users and 3x or more the compressor.

 

[jonjon1]

That $78 kit I lined earlier would be fine for most any hobby guy, you install it correctly and it will last forever, be super easy, and work really well...

 

[404]

I do not want 1/2" black pipe.

1. the pressure lose and head gain. I need a min of 3/4".
2. it rusts and is **** for air pipe- which is why I am removing. (same for galvanized). I need clean air, and clean filters
3. does not dissipate heat very well
4. it is a pain in the *** to install.
5. when I expand off of main line, it will not be a big deal- especially if I can use the shark fittings
6. why would I need to get a plumber involved? I can do this myself

Spot on, you got everything right. The ruggedness of black pipe might be appropriate on an Navy ship subject to Exocet missiles, but no need of it in a shop. Unless baboons will swing from the pipes I guess.

 

[NeuseRvrRat]

go all out. 1" sch 40 stainless socket weld.

 

[CNGsaves]

go all out. 1" sch 40 stainless socket weld.

^ ^ ^ Thank You !!! Was hoping this thread would start going in RIGHT direction !!

OP could have bought Swagelok tubing benders and went 1/2" stainless steel that would be capable of 3,600 psi !!!!! . .

OP also could have just sprayed painted outside of his black pipe steel a shiny silver paint (plus drain compressor & airline system appropriately) . . . and none of this discussion would have been needed !!! :

 

[fteufert]

Why not use a roll of copper tubing? 1/2" is not too expensive, and is easy to install.

 

[mellamoesrico]

I did note on there site that it says "not for air applications". I just don't see the difference in the water/ air applications.

it may be about the same price to do pex with push fittings vs copper

blahhhhh!!!!!!

Air molecules can leak out of small gaps that would hold water molecules bubble-tight.

 

[RAYJAY]

Spot on, you got everything right. The ruggedness of black pipe might be appropriate on an Navy ship subject to Exocet missiles, but no need of it in a shop. Unless baboons will swing from the pipes I guess.

black pipe will cool the air better than the copper due to the mass of the black pipe the copper will heat up and stay warm not cooling the air as it flows.
my shop proved it

i ripped all of the copper lines out, and did black pipe and no rust problems or water in my lines you do have to do a good pitch and pull all of your supply's from top of pipe, i also have a auto purge on my tank and end of my lines,

i sand blast a lot and never had a water problem so must have done something right.......... been installed since 2007 but I am due for some new regulators reused what I had and there getting a little long in the tooth

here is some pictures

 

[RAYJAY]

The need for 3/4 mains is in body shops with multiple users and 3x or more the compressor.

not really its just more volume, for high use tools, its also xtra air storage if you think about it ....

If 1 inch was not such a pain to install by myself my mains would of been that

 

[sberry]

not really its just more volume, for high use tools

I guess my point is that if one is doing it for more volume they are wasting their time and the difference in storage between 1/2 and 3/4 at 60 ft is moot.

 

[RAYJAY]

I guess my point is that if one is doing it for more volume they are wasting their time and the difference in storage between 1/2 and 3/4 at 60 ft is moot.

I'm at about 90 feet of main and more to add

 

[CNGsaves]

^ ^ ^ Nice setup RayJay !!! . . . . . .

 

[mrgm]

Got the 3/4" copper cut, set and up 3hrs + travel time.

I did look into the pex.. did not like the pressure rating and price. pex and fittings was a good price on there own....add the two tools for $50 or the multitool for $40 (tool for each size of pex), cheaper to do with copper.

went in looking for type M only type L. so that added to the price. I did pick up two shark 3/4" valves for the drip leg to try out. one kept slipping out about 1/4" sooo will be picking up two solder on valves tomorrow.

Was a quick job and if I ever want or need to add to main can do in less then 1hour and all parts are local and easy to find.


pressure test done. water/ oil separator next. I want one at the tank and at drop for paint booth. any suggestions?

60 gallon compressor

 

[mrgm]

I'm at about 90 feet of main and more to add

I may be hitting that next year!!!

 

[mrgm]

black pipe will cool the air better than the copper due to the mass of the black pipe the copper will heat up and stay warm not cooling the air as it flows.
my shop proved it

reason for the copper pipe being hot is that it is absorbing the heat from the compressed air and dissipating into your garage. that is why your outdoor ac unit has copper coils, that is why your frig has copper coils, that is why radiators have copper coils. The black pipe is thick and layered, not a good conductor of heat, also does not dissipate heat well.

I did have a nice taper to my pipe to a drip leg (all 3/4"). My tank is clean and rust free, piping is ****. I did install the pipe in 2002, year later started seeing color in my filters. Now it is just worthless. My shop will get up to the 100 in summer and freezing in winter.

that's just me. I may intercept pipe from compressor to tank and add radiator with cooler

 

[RAYJAY]

my shop stays about 65 winter 75 summer, the copper getting hot was my problem, once the copper got hot, i was getting moist air since i went to the black pipe it condenses better and i get very dry air

 

[saabman]

I have plumbed 3 garages, and I have used black iron pipe each. 3/4 inch for main line, and 1/2 for drops. I second the TP Tools drops kits. Sure without the tools black iron is a pain to work in, but with the tools it is not bad.

 

[RAYJAY]

I have plumbed 3 garages, and I have used black iron pipe each. 3/4 inch for main line, and 1/2 for drops. I second the TP Tools drops kits. Sure without the tools black iron is a pain to work in, but with the tools it is not bad.

did not even buy the kits from TP just copied what they used