Compressor Regulator and Hose Questions

[TipsyMcStagger]

I'm picking up my reman'd Morgan/Kobalt/Sanborn compressor from Northern Tool today. I've read it's a good idea to upgrade the regulator. Which regulator do you guys recommend?

Also, with regard to hose; I have a small garage. Twenty five feet of hose will probably be adequate most of the time, though I sure there will be times I'll need more. I was thinking it might be less cumbersome to simply connect two 25' hoses together when needed rather than wrestle with 50' all the time. Any reason why this wouldn't be a good approach?

Lastly, I was in HF looking at the 3/8" air hoses. I've read many times on this forum that the HF/Goodyear hoses are of good quality. Unless I'm missing something, I didn't see any Goodyear markings on the HF hoses. Are we talking about the regular 3/8" like this 25' and this 50'?

Thanks very much.

Tipsy

 

[sberry]

Hanging 50 ft of hose gets old in a hurry but it is a lot easier to work around a car with longer one. It will reach out a door the length of a car to air tires etc. If it was possible would see if I could rig up the super cool central location, put 50 ft of hose on a 100 if maunual reel, actually I don't mind manual rewind, retractor if you want to mount it up out of the way.

Reason I say a 50 is 25 gets shorter than you think in a hurry, buy 1 good female connector and a box of tool plugs. Ideal is to screw the whip of the reel right in to the filter regulator. Put a 1/2 ball valve on the comp, hose to regulator, again 3/8 is fine.
This isn't perfect but a good get started plan in a small shop.

My neighbor has similar setup but 2 pcs of 25 ft hose and he doesn't mind hanging it up the rare occasion he needs it. Got a small comp, single regulator and hose, only connector is at the end and on spare longer hose.

 

[sberry]

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200392578_200392578 You can get smaller and cheaper.

 

[c4cruiser]

From looking at the HF website, I don't see the Goodyear hoses listed there any longer. But that doesn't mean the stores don't have them in stock. In any event, good hoses are easy to find. Try CarQuest, Parts Plus or similar stores.

I would get a good 50' foot hose and either cut it in half for two 25' pieces or cut for 30' and 20' sections. Get some good brass fittings and terminate the cut ends. Use the "Universal" style of couplings. Note that the couplings come in both 1/4" and 3/8" so make sure you match the coupling size that is on the hose and whatever female end is on the compressor. I built a short manifold using short pieces of hose and brass pieces (108 and 90 degree ends) so I could have both sizes of female connectors.

I would also recommend the Kobalt blue-colored coiled hose from Lowe's. Even though it's only a 1/4" hose, it's great for using air tools at a bench or wherever you don't want long lengths of hose laying on the floor where it would become a tripping hazard.

 

[woodstockva]

I have that exact same compressor (Kobalt branded) in my garage & just re-ran the lines/entire setup. I will take some pictures & post them so you can see how I have it set up.

 

[finn]

I've used Goodyear rubber hoses and the red poly stuff in my garage, but recently got a length of softer poly as part of the package deal with my Bostich coil roofing nailer.

The rubber hose seems indestructible, but is heavy. The orange poly stuff is somewhat lighter but doesn't coil as readily when it is time to clean up. Works ok with a reel though.

The Bostich hose if my favorite of the three, especially for woofing work, as it is light and easy to work with.

The green hose (Flexilla or something like that) now on the market is something that looks good to me, although I haven't personally tried it. Looks light, flexible and durable.

The Goodyear rubber hose seems a little obsolete for a home garage. My 75 foot coil is unused, taking up space in my shop.

 

[woodstockva]

Here is the way I just re-did mine :

(Parts)

30 Gallon compressor
(2) - 1/4" NPT ball valve
(3) - 1/4" NPT ******
50' PVC air hose (cheap & very stiff when cold) ***I used two 25' sections***
(4) Stainless steel worm-gear hose clamps
Ingersoll-Rand regulator/filter/oiler combo unit
(4) 1/4" NPT x 3/8" barb fitting
1/4" NPT x 3/8" NPT brass reducer bushing
1/4" NPT female brass "T"
Liquid teflon pipe thread sealant
Roll of teflon tape
3/8" x 2 1/2" concrete anchor
50' retractable air hose
1/4" air coupler
1/4" air fitting
1/4" NPT remote tank drain w/60" wire attached

My modifications to the compressor were very simple. I removed the 1/4" coupler (that came installed on the compressor) & installed a 1/4" ball valve between the factory regulator & the coupler. This is so I can completely shut air off to the lines when they are not in use, or when service is needed (removing the filter bowl, oiler bowl, etc). The other modification that I did was to remove the factory installed tank drain (manual by hand) & replaced it with a simple remote "wire activated" drain like the ones that are used on tractor trailers. They are very cheap & very reliable.

I ran the line w/el-cheapo PVC airline through the basement wall, and attached it under the deck along a floor joist. I used two sections of 25' hose & coupled them, but would have been easier with one section of 50' hose. The hose loops back through the wall and into the regulator/filter/oiler combo unit. Where it comes into the unit, I have a "T" installed w/a ball valve to catch extra moisture & to "dump" the air from the lines when they need to be serviced (basically, I close the tank ball valve & open the line ball valve, and the entire system de-pressurizes in 3 seconds). From the opposite side of the combo unit (the oiler side), a 1/4" NPT x 3/8" barb fitting is installed & a small section of leftover airhose connects the line to the retractable air reel.

My garage is approx 30' long, so my 50' reel is more than adequate to reach anywhere inside. Also, I have a carport between the garage door & the parking area, so it reached through it & into the parking area another 20+ feet.

A few things to keep in mind about air hoses:

PVC lines are the cheapest, but they get so hard in cold weather you can NOT unroll them.

Rubber lines are very flexible in all temperatures, are fairly inexpensive, and are easy to repair (punctures, ends failing, etc). But, they dry-rot & you can only reasonably expect to use them 3-5 years indoors or 1-2 years outdoors before them fail. UV rays kill them quickly.

Polyurethane lines are very flexible & are thin/lightweight, but are the most expensive & are not a good option in most cases for DIY auto repair uses.

In my opinion, I would buy the parts you need for a setup you will be happy with 5 years from now. Not just something that will work at this moment. A retractable air hose reel, and a quality regulator/filter/oiler will save you a LOT of cursing & time in the future. Air hoses laying on a shop floor get extremely dirty & are a pain to roll/unroll every single time you need to use them.

The standard 50' air hose reels that are metal & self-retracting are almost all identical ---- only difference is the color of the rubber hose & the color of the reel. I honestly think they are all made in the same factory oversees. I bought mine from amazon, but it is identical to the store brands @ Home depot, tractor supply, harbor freight, etc. The harbor freight one is the cheapest (50' version $59.99 w/coupon).

If you want, you can shoot me a PM & I will send the links over for the reg/filter/oiler unit, the tank drain, and the coupon code for the harbor freight 50' air reel.

 

[TipsyMcStagger]

I have that exact same compressor (Kobalt branded) in my garage & just re-ran the lines/entire setup. I will take some pictures & post them so you can see how I have it set up.

Great. Thanks.

I'm in FL and although I don't intend to paint or do much sandblasting, the humidity here is very high and I'll like to be able to get some of that moisture out of the compressed air.

I was thinking I might mount a reel with 50' of hose on the ceiling, but I'm not sure if that would work well with the regulator/water separator being on/near the compressor?

Tipsy

 

[TipsyMcStagger]

I ran the line w/el-cheapo PVC airline through the basement wall, and attached it under the deck along a floor joist. I used two sections of 25' hose & coupled them, but would have been easier with one section of 50' hose. The hose loops back through the wall and into the regulator/filter/oiler combo unit...

The 50' loop under your deck is to allow the water vapor to condense? I might be able to do something similar in the attic above the garage.

Thanks for the thorough writeup.

Tipsy

 

[woodstockva]

Great. Thanks.

I'm in FL and although I don't intend to paint or do much sandblasting, the humidity here is very high and I'll like to be able to get some of that moisture out of the compressed air.

I was thinking I might mount a reel with 50' of hose on the ceiling, but I'm not sure if that would work well with the regulator/water separator being on/near the compressor?

Tipsy

That is the purpose of the 50' of PVC line in between the compressor & the regulator/filter/oiler unit. It allows the air to cool prior to hitting the water separator. This allows everything to be centralized in one location VS other setups where the compressor is 50 feet away from the air reel, you still get the 50' of line to cool the air.

 

[sberry]

In fla it wont cool in the attic but I have seen hoses last a long time on 24/7. The one I got outside is 15 yrs,, one of these days. It does need to be replaced. One on a reel I have cut the end off 6 inches about 8 or 10 times over 20 some years. Been under pressure continuously. I like the set up above. 1/4 valve there is great.

 

[J Persons]

You can get the yellow Goodyear hose in various lengths at amazon.com, they even have whip hoses with a swivel.

 

[csp]

HF stopped carrying the Goodyear hoses a few years ago.

 

[TipsyMcStagger]

Dumb question: Can I swap the regulator and the pressure gauge from one side to the other?

Actually, I'll likely remove the regulator and replace it with a ball valve as I have an Ingersoll Rand regulator/filter/oiler and I see no sense in having two regulators.

TIA.

Tipsy

 

[pacmktg]

Side does not matter

 

[TipsyMcStagger]

Side does not matter

Thanks.

Tipsy

 

[fteufert]

I had a HF 3/8 Goodyear hose for 23 years, until my garage fire damaged it. Luckily I found another one.

I like that compressor setup, I may use some of those ideas. Mine is mounted up over my side entry door, and that 50 foot condensing hose is a great idea.

 

[TipsyMcStagger]

I had a HF 3/8 Goodyear hose for 23 years, until my garage fire damaged it. Luckily I found another one.

I just bought the HF 50' 3/8" reel using a 25% off coupon. It came to about $72. If/when the hose eventually fails, I'll replace it with Goodyear hose.

I also have the same Ingersoll Rand regulator/filter/oiler that Woodstockva used in the above posts.

I just got back from HD and picked up some copper and a few ball valves. My plan is to make a simplified version of a copper condensation manifold in this post.

I'll mount the hose reel from the ceiling just above the copper. I want to keep the regulator/filter at or below eye level, so I'm still not 100% decided how I'll transition from the regulator up to the hose reel.

Tipsy

 

[usmc_noma]

Goodyear hoses are now sold at NT. Check the site often because they go on sale from time to time. Last month I bought a 50' 3/8" hose for $25. My previous Goodyear hose was from HF, but as stated they no longer carry them.

 

[sberry]

You can swap the reg side to side or plum the hose there and put the reg in a convenient spot, it doesn't have to stay on the comp. If this is an install I don't like couplers anyway, threaded connections and a coupler at the point of tool use.

 

[volleyball]

I saw that copper monster and just ask WHY?. Get the aluminum air line and run air around your garage. design it so you have a low point to drain from. that will do a better job with less restrictions.
With a few outlets, you can run some short flexible lines. I have several diameter and length hoses, like an old( 50 years) hose that is now 3 shorter pieces due to failures.

 

[TipsyMcStagger]

If this is an install I don't like couplers anyway, threaded connections and a coupler at the point of tool use.

It's the same compressor as pictured above. It's on wheels and I'd like to use a coupler and a 3' or 5' whip to connect it to my copper manifold so I can quickly disconnect and move the compressor when necessary.

Tipsy

 

[TipsyMcStagger]

I saw that copper monster and just ask WHY?. Get the aluminum air line and run air around your garage. design it so you have a low point to drain from. that will do a better job with less restrictions.
With a few outlets, you can run some short flexible lines. I have several diameter and length hoses, like an old( 50 years) hose that is now 3 shorter pieces due to failures.

The garage is 20' x 20'. A 50' reel on the ceiling is more than adequate. I don't need multiple connections.

Insofar as "why" for the copper manifold; this is Florida. The humidity is 100% much of the time. If a few dollars in copper can remove some of the moisture, why not?

Tipsy

 

[volleyball]

I understand the humidity. That is why I said buy the aluminum air distribution system. the aluminum replaces the copper. You span the garage doing two things. It cools the air to separate moisture that is why I said to tilt it to a low point for water removal. The 1/2" line will not rob you of airflow like a flexible line.
That copper thing had a drain but only 1, each low point would need to have one or tee'd to manifold them to a low point or you'll be trapping water. It also doesn't give you any benefit of distributing the air. A waste of money. You would use the copper to make runs. Since you need to braze the connections, it makes it hard for many homeowners.
Buy the aluminum kit and you cut it to length, snap on the ends and you have a better functioning system for maybe less money.
I used iron pipe in my shop are as I had lots of outlets and knew I would be changing it. The aluminum fittings were pricey and I'd have to wait for them to ship. I can get iron stuff down the street. The pipe cools the air and I added some drip legs with petcocks so no water got trapped.

 

[TipsyMcStagger]

That copper thing had a drain but only 1, each low point would need to have one or tee'd to manifold them to a low point or you'll be trapping water. It also doesn't give you any benefit of distributing the air. A waste of money. You would use the copper to make runs. Since you need to braze the connections...

Look again at the photo. Each low point has a drain, as will the small manifold I have in mind. I simply don't need to distribute air around a 20' x 20' garage. For my intended use, a 50' reel hanging from the ceiling will be adequate.

I've read plenty about brazing vs. plumbers solder vs. 95/5. I don't intend to braze and I'm not too worried about using plumbers solder, though I will use 95/5 if I can find it locally.

I appreciate the input. That's why we participate in the forum, after all. But I don't need to get too complicated. If my little copper manifold removes some percentage of the moisture, I'll be satisfied.

Tipsy

 

[volleyball]

http://www.rapidairproducts.com/rapidair.aspSee this product.

You can use all or part of it. And you won't need a 50' hose with it.
How much will that copper setup cost? Unless you can get old copper from a scrapper, it will cost more to do.
Plus with a 1 piece line, you won't have to search for leaks.
It is all up to what works for you. What you are happy with. I think this to be a better system.
For your reference system, if you mount it horizontally or on the ceiling, it would work with less costly fittings and valves. And I just thought of an idea. Buy a 6' section of hydronic baseboard. It has fins which will speed cooling in less space.

 

[TipsyMcStagger]

http://www.rapidairproducts.com/rapidair.aspSee this product.

You can use all or part of it. And you won't need a 50' hose with it.
How much will that copper setup cost? Unless you can get old copper from a scrapper, it will cost more to do.
Plus with a 1 piece line, you won't have to search for leaks.
It is all up to what works for you. What you are happy with. I think this to be a better system.
For your reference system, if you mount it horizontally or on the ceiling, it would work with less costly fittings and valves. And I just thought of an idea. Buy a 6' section of hydronic baseboard. It has fins which will speed cooling in less space.

I've seen the Rapid Air system. If my garage were larger, it's something I'd definitely have to consider. But again, due to the small size of my garage, a single hookup and a 50' reel is really most efficient. Interesting idea about the radiator, by the way.

Tipsy

 

[sberry]

Tippsy,,, you are on the right track. The garage is small, you do not need several hydrants. I understand the connector from the comp to the pipe, I have some too but only mention it as often they are a leak, no big deal and down lo9w is easy to find. Something else you are on about is a 50 ft hose, you can walk comfortable around a car and even reach outside for tire air in 1 pull.

I have an 80 x 80 and can reach everything in it with 3 reels. I have more than that, 3 whips indoor too that overlap and serve benches but its a different situation eliminating hose on floor and on occasion multiple men etc than the home brew guy faces. Projects in the way with work coming from different directions.

But I can rebuild/paint a car or truck with a single air hose, easy, another whip for convenience isn't a bad thing.

 

[volleyball]

I've got over 50' of pipe in my place. And it is all run, in a 20 x 28 space. I have a permanent exterior outlet. That saves me dragging 75' of extra hose. Still need a 50' hose or longer to fill a tire.

 

[compressornew]

I suggest try to use regulator with power indications.A regulator for power indications can easily increase the working progress of compressor machine.

 

[sberry]

That saves me dragging 75' of extra hose.

That is a good deal, that's what pipe is all about. If its routine might consider a reel.

I can come agross like I am not in favor of plumbing, on the contrary. What is typical though on new installations is that it seems no matter how well planned one thinks they are its never quite right till a guy does it the second time.

Luckily we didn't kill ourselves early on, my Dad didn't know anything about air and didn't much care about utility design. But that's my thing, its not really technology but utility.

I do consider voltage and pressure drop but I am light commercial, I fill tanks and irrigate some from my well, 4 households on it, I have a lot of long runs, I make sure I don't shoot myself in the foot with pipe size so I upsize 1 class, my well is larger 2 steps up.

Point of all that especially for those starting out is,,, after doing this a while, no degree, good anyway, that a lot of it is not worth the worry. I might be inclined to use a piece or 2 of 3/4 air pipe if it was convenient but would likely start at a small garage with a few sticks of 1/2 and keep it as simple as I could , change parts around for a while, maybe in the end cannibalize and re use but use as many one size fittings as I could and tailor it as I went till I really shook out the ergonomics.
A bigger primary pipe may help a little with cooling but upsizing with a 1/2 air gun saves about 1/2 pound drop at 100 ft, its hard to get past 50 in a 40 ft shop if you try.

In the end I used about 1/2 the air outlets I thought I would. I had a lot of hoses and connectors from years of makeshift and poorly designed layouts,,, also did a lot I saw elsewhere which was not really right and not right for small shop. Some things others did had to be etc, lots of reasons but I finally looked closer at some layout drawings and saw where they put the connections.

 

[TipsyMcStagger]

Are the threads on couplings NPT? I removed the factory regulator from the compressor and bought a 1/4" ball valve to place directly on the compressor. Since I have the Ingersoll Rand regulator, I see no reason to retain the cheapy regulator on the unit (pictured above).

When I thread the coupler (that's pictured above threaded into the factory regulator) into the 1/4" ball valve, it threads in very easily, even with three turns of Teflon. Seems the threads don't match.

Tipsy

 

[sberry]

Yes, a ball valve is good, you can save the cheap reg for other uses. It doesn't have a filter or a trap and you really would prefer to regulate closer to the point of use.

I havnt even plowed the snow away from this side door but there is an apron outside and this reel is used when the door is open and it serves a good amount of shop floor. If there was a hydrant against the wall with 50 ft hose would be too short but with the arm really stretches 50 ft of hose on the reel, pushes up and turns out of the way, I wish I had a couple more.

This has been slightly cleaned up and redone, a lot of this is really old. Great thing about screwed pipe and fittings, turn off valve ahead of that reg and screw it to it.

 

[TipsyMcStagger]

Yes, a ball valve is good, you can save the cheap reg for other uses. It doesn't have a filter or a trap and you really would prefer to regulate closer to the point of use.

Right. Hence the reason(s) I removed the factory regulator. But my question has to do with the threads on the ball valve (NPT, unless I'm mistaken) vs, the threads on the coupling.

The coupling seems to thread loosely into the ball valve.

Tipsy

 

[volleyball]

I did it for years with hoses. My drop for the tire machine is a triple, one for the machine, one for the balancer and one for filling. Some of my hoses are over 50 years old and they develop leaks so I cut them into short pieces which is great for the short run. 1 hose becomes 3.
My outside piped outlet is about 6' away, 15' of pipe. It would be 75' of dragging the hose out 2 doors which would have to stay open, up hill and then undo. After doing it twice, you'd be piping too. And the dragging is the reason my hoses fail.
Just like outlets. I prefer not to drag extension cords.
I see the OP not seeing the value in piping. At least for convenience. I think it is the 100' in the kit. You don't realize how much you use. I could use it all in his space and you would swear I only use half. He could even just use half and send a very grateful me the remainder if he didn't want to waste it. Several years ago, it was cheaper in copper, now its not, unless you are a renovator and using ripped out parts.
Only me has to do it the way I want, the rest of you are free to do yours your way. I too am a pipe person as I tear it apart and resuse the parts. The down side is the line loss you end up with. I run 2 stage so it is higher for me. I use a shutoff at the tank or mine would be running once or twice a day from leaks.

 

[TipsyMcStagger]

Are the threads on couplings NPT? ...

When I thread the coupler (that's pictured above threaded into the factory regulator) into the 1/4" ball valve, it threads in very easily, even with three turns of Teflon. Seems the threads don't match.

I guess the threads on the coupling are NPT after all. I replaced the crappy Chinese coupling that came with the compressor with another less crappy Chinese coupling from Home Depot and it thread into the ball valve more securely. I used yellow tape on all the threads.

Tipsy

 

[TipsyMcStagger]

If this is an install I don't like couplers anyway, threaded connections and a coupler at the point of tool use.

... It's on wheels and I'd like to use a coupler and a 3' or 5' whip to connect it to my copper manifold so I can quickly disconnect and move the compressor when necessary.

I might have to rethink this. I broke-in the compressor today and installed a coupler on the ball valve as pictured above. With the tank full, I snapped an air nozzle into the coupler and immediately heard a hiss.

I'd really like to be able to quickly disconnect the compressor from the copper manifold, but I don't think I'll be happy with such a leaky connection.

Tipsy

 

[woodstockva]

You may just want to swap out the el-cheapo coupler that was supplied with the compressor. If you heard no leaks until you plugged the hose in, the leak is either at the coupling or the hose.

 

[TipsyMcStagger]

I guess the threads on the coupling are NPT after all. I replaced the crappy Chinese coupling that came with the compressor with another less crappy Chinese coupling from Home Depot and it thread into the ball valve more securely. I used yellow tape on all the threads.

You may just want to swap out the el-cheapo coupler that was supplied with the compressor. If you heard no leaks until you plugged the hose in, the leak is either at the coupling or the hose.

I did that earlier today. The hiss is most definitely the quick disconnect (the air nozzle inserted into the coupler). The nozzle was inserted directly into the coupling (no hose). Closing the ball valve or removing the air nozzle immediately eliminates the air loss.

Tipsy

 

[sberry]

IMOP there is no better way than you dunnit. Putting a service valve there where is should be solves so many problems and you never got to discharge the tank to work on it or for leaks when its not used.