Compressor ???'s

[Daddy454]

Ok,I'm currently in the process of reading the "Compression-show off your compressors" thread-only to page 47 so far. I get the message as far as copper piping/black iron for cooling,but I see no mention of galvanized piping.I have mine plumbed somewhat,and in the process of re-doing/upgrading my set-up now that I've been on this board a little time.
1-what is the issue with NOT using galvanized pipe?Not necessarily for the whole system,but just random elbows/fittings here and there.
2-I see a lot of setups with big breaker panel style disconnects at the comp.I have mine hard wired from a sub-panel to a junction box to the comp.Should I put a plug/receptacle combo at the junction box,or am I ok as is?
3-I just have a small Craftsman dryer/filter right off the tank,and a reg.I've seen them set up both ways,but does it matter reg.,then filter,or filter first then reg?
Bear in mind this is not the actual setup,just mocked up to pressure test the drain valve I recently installed.I'm sure I'll get beat up a little for something,but any suggestions/comments are appreciated.

 

[thightower]

My 2 cents.
1. Just always used black pipe. I think its the trash you can get out of the galvanizing flakeing off. Not to mention, it gives off bad fumes when messing with it, especially when you use a torch.
2.Mine is hard wired to the panel. I use the breaker to turn it on and off. Been like that for 30 years, no problems yet. But I don't use it day in and day out as much as I used to either.
3.Probably best to run filter first then regulator. I personally don't use a regulator in my system. If needed I could set up a regulator on quick connects in line with the hose.

Hope this helps.

 

[Steevo]

1. Some people say that galvanized tends to shed small particles, which can get into air tools if there is no filter between the piping and tool.

2. Disconnects are often located near the compressor if a) there is no switch on the compressor, or 2) a magnetic starter is needed (5hp or higher motors). Code compliance only says that if the breaker panel is not line-of sight from the compressor, you need a disconnect or switch at the compressor for safely shutting it down.

3. The filter is generally after the regulator, and sometimes one at every station where water separation is important.

 

[rodm1]

"Some people say that galvanized tends to shed small particles, which can get into air tools if there is no filter between the piping and tool."

Like the above two posts this is my understanding. But the interesting thing is Saylor-Beall uses galvanized for there plumbing. I wonder if they think the tank will catch any flaking before it enters the system.

The panels are for convenience and code might require it in there case. I just use 6ga extension cord. But I should be using a disconnect do to having a mag starter with no on or off switch. I use the circuit breaker for switching.

 

[Bob C]

For that little compressor you have, galvanized is perfectly fine. As far as filters and regulators, ALWAYS place the filter inline FIRST before any regulators. If you have ever heard a regulator buzz or hum or emit vibrations, you know why you install the filters first. Personally I always advise my customers to install a knife switch disconnect right on the wall at the compressor for safety and ability to lock it out. as far as downline filtration, it is good advice to install mini filters on disconnects where necessary as it is possible for condensation to happen downline. To solve that issue you should invest in a refridgerated dryer or a deliquesenct dryer. Most folks do not need these items.

 

[Daddy454]

thightower-I was thinking more of a rust issue with the galvanized.Didn't think about **** flaking off,although I did have to drill out a little piece of slag out of one of the elbows I installed.Guess that should have been a clue right there.I usually just use the breaker as well,although I'm sure that will wear out at some point also.Thanks man.

 

[Daddy454]

Thanks Steevo.So then I should be alright with the sub panel only about 30' away.See above for the galvanized issue.Never thought about that before.I did plan on putting in some small filters at each drop,once I figure out exactly where I want them.

 

[thightower]

If you are using some type of screen or filter at the end of the line, you should be fine. With black pipe, as long as you keep the system dry there shouldn't be a problem. The breaker I use on mine is the original one, and as steevo said, mine is in line of sigth. No problem, just hope it helps.

 

[Daddy454]

Rodm1-See I was more thinking it would be a rust issue with the galvanized.Due to never really working with it much,that was my first inclination.As well I have never put heat to it either,so I wasn't aware of the fumes deal either.I haven't really priced it out yet,but I'm wondering what the cost difference would be.I honestly don't know much about my comp.How do I know if it has a mag starter?

 

[Daddy454]

Bob C- I kinda thought the filter should be first,just to protect "anything" down the line.Thanks for the confirmation."Knife switch"- that's the word I was looking for earlier.Wouldn't just a plug/outlet combo work just as well,since I really don't see anyone else working on my stuff?I do plan on some small filters at each drop.Don't really do any "heavy duty" work where I would think I would need a refrig/ dessi dryer.

 

[Herb67SS]

NEVER heat (with a torch) or weld galvanized pipe or metal. The fumes created are highly toxic and permanently damage your nerves and brain!! It's called galvanic poisoning. I know guys that do it but they do it in front of a fan. Also know 2people (former roofers from the old days) with galvanic poisoning. Permanently disabled. Got it from soldering galvanized roofing metal.

But for air line, it's safe and will not create rust issues from condensation. It I think most people use black iron cuz its fine also and cheaper. But it will rust from condensation internally. If I wasnt using copper, I'd use galvanized pipe.

 

[Daddy454]

Thanks Herb.I wasn't even aware of the galvanic poisoning.Good to know.So as far as black iron vs. galvanized,I guess it will come down to whichever one I can get cheaper.As I previously stated,I thought it was more rust related.Sound like it's a 50/50 compromise.

 

[rodm1]

Rodm1-See I was more thinking it would be a rust issue with the galvanized.Due to never really working with it much,that was my first inclination.As well I have never put heat to it either,so I wasn't aware of the fumes deal either.I haven't really priced it out yet,but I'm wondering what the cost difference would be.I honestly don't know much about my comp.How do I know if it has a mag starter?

The compressor posted doesn't has a starter. They are mostly on true 5hp and larger motors. My understanding is the pressure regulator (like yours) can be over loaded with larger motors and they need a starter to supply the heavy load. Think of a starter as a relay switch.

 

[Falcon67]

I use mixed black/galvanized in my runs because that's what HD or Lowes had in stock. I've had pipe in use for about 6 years and never seen a galvanized pipe flake in my filters or any rust particles, even with the light surface rust that is inside the black pipe sections. Black is cheaper than gal, so I prefer black. But I'll buy what I need to complete a run - don't care. The big issue is really controlling water/condensate at the compressor and keeping that problem out of the lines. Filter first, then regulator. And sorry to say - that HF water trap you have on there won't do much at all. If you are serous about controlling condensate, then you need a serious filter. That'll be in the $100~200 range, typically.

 

[IBenDcars]

I understand the warning about heating galvanized pipe but I don't think it would be an issue on airlines unless you were welding them together. I put galvanized in mine with a few black iron fittings thrown in. I cut and threaded all my galvanized as needed. I only used the galvanized because I got a super good deal on 400 feet of 1" pipe.

 

[smokem2020]

Daddy454-I would be more concerned with the flow numbers on any filter or regulator. I use a big filter/drain close to the tank, then smaller filters and regulators at point of usage if needed. No sence in having 120psi in the tank if you can only get 80psi out of filter/regulator set up. good luck

 

[Daddy454]

Rodm1-thanks man.Not real compressor savvy,so every little tidbit helps.

 

[Daddy454]

I use mixed black/galvanized in my runs because that's what HD or Lowes had in stock. I've had pipe in use for about 6 years and never seen a galvanized pipe flake in my filters or any rust particles, even with the light surface rust that is inside the black pipe sections. Black is cheaper than gal, so I prefer black. But I'll buy what I need to complete a run - don't care. The big issue is really controlling water/condensate at the compressor and keeping that problem out of the lines. Filter first, then regulator. And sorry to say - that HF water trap you have on there won't do much at all. If you are serous about controlling condensate, then you need a serious filter. That'll be in the $100~200 range, typically.

Yeah,I priced the pipe at HD last nite,and the black is cheaper-about $10 for 10',so that's probably the direction I'll go.As far as the filter,it's actually a Craftsman jobber I grabbed for $20.May not be the best,but it's better than the tiny one I had on there previously.Plus For the work I'm using it for it should do ok.As well,now I got a reason/excuse to put a BETTER one on the Xmas list to Momma Claus

 

[Daddy454]

I understand the warning about heating galvanized pipe but I don't think it would be an issue on airlines unless you were welding them together. I put galvanized in mine with a few black iron fittings thrown in. I cut and threaded all my galvanized as needed. I only used the galvanized because I got a super good deal on 400 feet of 1" pipe.

Yeah,no welding on the galv. here,more concerned with rust.Of course,like you if I can get a smoking deal on either,I'm not picky.

 

[Daddy454]

Daddy454-I would be more concerned with the flow numbers on any filter or regulator. I use a big filter/drain close to the tank, then smaller filters and regulators at point of usage if needed. No sence in having 120psi in the tank if you can only get 80psi out of filter/regulator set up. good luck

Good point.I'm probably gonna have to do a little more research on that later on.For now it seems as though I'm getting plenty of air for the tools I've been using it with.I read that ENTIRE "show me your comps" thread and my head was spinning with all the dryers,filters,refrigerants,etc. some of these guys are running.Gonna have to plan this out even better than I originally thought.

 

[Monkey_Wrench]

I was doing some research myself today, and found this:

I think I'm going to run copper 3/4" in my shop.

 

[Tim The Tool Man]

I was doing some research myself today, and found this: ...

I think I'm going to run copper 3/4" in my shop.

Too funny that's the same schematic I found when I was planning my shop. This was before I knew about the Garage Journal. I did all my air drops as described in that photo...

 

[78Bird]

I used copper because the 1 time expense wasn't hugely different for my small setup, copper doesnt corrode or flake, so no particles, and copper transfers heat even faster than iron, so it maximises the cooling effect of the lines themselves.

Copper is also a bit easier IMO to change later, you can cut and solder, no threading needed.

the doglegs before the filter/reg as described above really do help make water condense and collect at those low points for draining, keeping it from ever getting to the filter and tools.

 

[Bwana]

^^^^ First mention of copper in this thread.

I ended up using copper when I redid my shop last week (got rid of the PVC! ). The copper was half the price at Lowes than the black iron. Go figure! About 1$/foot copper, $2/foot black pipe. So I'd check all prices first before committing. Less leaks too if you can soldier well.

 

[Herb67SS]

I used copper also for the ease of construction and no possibility of rust in the line. Most commercial shops use iron for the durability and greater protection against damage to the lines in an industrial environment. Copper crushes when crunched by a fork lift or vehicle, iron doesn't.

If you can solder a joint (if not its easy to learn how) copper is a good, cost effective solution for a home garage. I know guys that even polished and clear coated it while it was shiny for a sharp looking install and shop. That bright copper really looks nice in a shop ;-)

 

[rodm1]

^^^^ First mention of copper in this thread.

I ended up using copper when I redid my shop last week (got rid of the PVC! ). The copper was half the price at Lowes than the black iron. Go figure! About 1$/foot copper, $2/foot black pipe. So I'd check all prices first before committing. Less leaks too if you can soldier well.

Fittings is where copper will kill you.

 

[Daddy454]

Thanks Wrench.After reading ALL 77 pages of the "show you comps" thread,I did mange to find that pic.Got it saved and using it for a guideline.Thanks again man.

 

[Daddy454]

Hey Tim,so then is the general consensus to run 3/4" pipe for the mains,then 1/2"for the drops?This schematic says 1/2" up to 75'.I'm gonna be right at that length when it's all said and done,and I'd just as soon run all 1/2" if I could.

 

[Daddy454]

I used copper because the 1 time expense wasn't hugely different for my small setup, copper doesnt corrode or flake, so no particles, and copper transfers heat even faster than iron, so it maximises the cooling effect of the lines themselves.

Copper is also a bit easier IMO to change later, you can cut and solder, no threading needed.

the doglegs before the filter/reg as described above really do help make water condense and collect at those low points for draining, keeping it from ever getting to the filter and tools.

After just pricing out a thread cutter for doing this job,and probably only needing it for THIS job.The copper pipe is starting to look more attractive.

 

[Daddy454]

^^^^ First mention of copper in this thread.

I ended up using copper when I redid my shop last week (got rid of the PVC! ). The copper was half the price at Lowes than the black iron. Go figure! About 1$/foot copper, $2/foot black pipe. So I'd check all prices first before committing. Less leaks too if you can soldier well.

Looks like I'm gonna have to take a look at some copper prices before I get too committed to the steel.

 

[Daddy454]

I used copper also for the ease of construction and no possibility of rust in the line. Most commercial shops use iron for the durability and greater protection against damage to the lines in an industrial environment. Copper crushes when crunched by a fork lift or vehicle, iron doesn't.

If you can solder a joint (if not its easy to learn how) copper is a good, cost effective solution for a home garage. I know guys that even polished and clear coated it while it was shiny for a sharp looking install and shop. That bright copper really looks nice in a shop ;-)

10-4 on the shiny copper.I gonna give it a look.Solders a lot cheaper than a new pipe threader.

 

[GarageEnvy]

I used galvanized but I don't think it is necessary. It was what OSH had in stock and they cut to fit for me. I only threaded a couple of pieces. I haven't had a problem with flaking. Copper is a really good material. No argument there. Black or galvanized would probably work just as well for your setup.

 

[Monkey_Wrench]

Hey Tim,so then is the general consensus to run 3/4" pipe for the mains,then 1/2"for the drops?This schematic says 1/2" up to 75'.I'm gonna be right at that length when it's all said and done,and I'd just as soon run all 1/2" if I could.

I was at my local Home Depot, looking at some copper prices. Then red stuff was almost $19 for 10' @ 3/4", the most expensive they had.

I think, for my small shop setup, 1/2" should be sufficient after all. If anything, 3/4" main, 1/2" drops like you said. Plus, HD has these:

Solder 1/2" into it, secure on the wall, and put a reducer and air-fitting in. Voila, all copper, all success!

 

[DekeT]

10-4 on the shiny copper.I gonna give it a look.Solders a lot cheaper than a new pipe threader.

With only a little minor planning no threading is required.

 

[Daddy454]

With only a little minor planning no threading is required.

Yeah,I'm trying to decide the best way to run it.I've got a pole barn shop,with drywall.I only drywalled up to the pole- leaving the posts exposed.Therefore I either have to run my main headers on the faces of the poles,and it will sit about 2-3" away from the drywall,or I will have to do 4 elbows at ea. post to go around the posts on my mains.I'm not sure I like the idea of it sitting away from the wall,but all those little bends probably won't be good/fun either.Anybody out there done this before,or have some ideas on how to route around the posts?

 

[rodm1]

Everyone look around for copper fitting HD is 2 to 3 times as much for some of them!