Compressor suggestions

[Articul8]

Hello… so Im getting ready to shop around for compressors so far I have a Cambell Hausfeld 20 gallon roll around single stage for simple projects but it runs down after using air tools for a min so … I'm looking for a stationary dual stage reciprocating compressor w at least a 80 gallon receiver tank with about 12-15 cfm @ 90 psi, this will be mounted to a concrete slab under a fenced lean to, also thinking electric drive system over gas, but I'd like to hear what y'all are working with and how you like them is any suggestions
Thanks… Clayton…

 

[Gary S]

Worry more about CFM than tank size. A 60 gallon 18-20cfm compressor will outperform a 80 gallon 12-15cfm compressor all day long.

 

[Articul8]

No I was just saying I would want nothing less then 12/15 cfm, that's why I asked what ppl in here where running and how they liked them

 

[Articul8]

The IR #TS4N5 I was looking at is a 5 Hp, 230v 2 stage w no starter required,
175 psig operating pressure, 15.8 cfm @ 90psi,
Design life is 15,000 hrs w a 3 year warrantee, Again I've never bought a big compressor like this before. Thats why I wanted to know what these shops on here were using.

 

[pottsie454]

Champion VR5-8. I got the 5 horse motor that delivers 21 cfm @ 90 I believe. I can buy a 7.5 hp motor to get 23 cfm @ 90. It's one helluva a compressor. 80 gallon 5 hp model will cost you $2400 to your door. Buy once cry once.

 

[pottsie454]

To expand on what I've said real quick... Things to consider before making a big compressor purchase...

Low pump speed, I picked up the champion because it was 710 rpm pump. It's quiter, and the slower pump will last long. You'll get less moisture in the tank because the pump won't get as hot as well.

Get a quality motor. Mine is a true 5hp baldor motor. The best manufacture you can buy IMHO.

Make sure you get an automatic drain, or install one as soon as you get the compressor.

Warranty, go with a company that has a reputable warranty. Hopefully you want need to use it, but if you do, you'll be glad you've taken it in consideration. Quincy, Champion, and the like all have a good reputation. But you do pay the higher purchase price to have that logo on the side.

Lastly, make sure you oversize your wire you run to operate the compressor. Less resistance in your wire will help the longevity of the motor.

Hope this helps!

 

[ilovevocs]

I have the IR 7.5 hp 80 gallon vertical and it has been a nice unit. If your going to buy it go for the fully loaded model with a cooler and timed drain.

 

[Articul8]

Great info

 

[scw1991]

I'd stay away from motors that operate at 3575 RPM. To achieve maximum pump life = slow speed. Champion, Ingersoll Rand type 30, and Quincy are top models in my opinion. Motor should be true 5HP rating (184 frame), 1725 RPM, and preferred motor manufacturer would be Baldor, WEG, or Marathon.

 

[p0lar]

I'd stay away from motors that operate at 3575 RPM. To achieve maximum pump life = slow speed. Champion, Ingersoll Rand type 30, and Quincy are top models in my opinion. Motor should be true 5HP rating (184 frame), 1725 RPM, and preferred motor manufacturer would be Baldor, WEG, or Marathon.

Not a single one of those is US-made any longer. You can pretty much pick any Baldor, WEG, Marathon, Leeson, etc.. and they're all made overseas to varying degrees. Baldor and WEG are now amongst the worst, with almost their full operations outsourced - a friend of mine who works for a major food processing plant says that he replaces more newer Baldors than any other brand, and they're numbered the fewest. It's been this way for years. The units that are 6++ years old are still running, but rarely does he have one now-a-days that comes in new and stays running 24/7 for long.

On his recommendation, and two others', I recently purchased a 7.5 HP TEFC single phase, 4-pole Leeson. It's 165 lbs, not friendly to move around in the least. Find a Baldor, WEG, or Marathon that matches that... and yet, still.. not one of them is made on home soil, not even the Leeson.

It's a sorry state of affairs in the electric motor supply of the US.

 

[scw1991]

P0lor,
Forgot all about Leeson which I believe are made in Canada?? Baldor used to be king in my book years ago. But you are correct. Within the past few years I've heard their quality has dropped. WEG motors are still made out of Brazil I think. I had on my 5HP IR2475 type 30 compressor and it was still going strong after 12 years. I really don't know of any other major brands except for GE and USEM. Too bad we live in such a throw away society.

 

[p0lar]

P0lor,
Forgot all about Leeson which I believe are made in Canada?? Baldor used to be king in my book years ago. But you are correct. Within the past few years I've heard their quality has dropped. WEG motors are still made out of Brazil I think. I had on my 5HP IR2475 type 30 compressor and it was still going strong after 12 years. I really don't know of any other major brands except for GE and USEM. Too bad we live in such a throw away society.

Yeah, and I'm not saying that the Leeson I bought will hold up any better than the others, but when I say this thing is built extremely stout - I'm not joking. It's not going to be comfortable in the least to mount it, and I even purchased a special mounting bracket for it. Here's to hoping it does well, since I really, REALLY don't want to have to re-install a replacement!

Of course, I also snagged a massive (larger than most small air compressors), older Baldor motor controller with a safety disconnect, slow-blow fuses, magnetic starter, adjustable overload circuit and all fault/run/etc indicator lights. It's even got an auto/hand switch that I may use for loadless run operation - I haven't decided yet simply because the box is so large that it's prohibitive to mount!

Anyway, I didn't mean to thread-jack, just a small rant on my part about the diminishing quality of imported components.

 

[kenfain]

Question, new or used?

 

[firebox40dash5]

Question, new or used?

Used for my money, particularly after reading polar's post about motors. I've got an old Champion R15 with an old GE motor off CL running it. I imagine both are 20+ years old, and I bet they'll both be running long after a new $800 compressor would, and putting out more air.

I'll take beefy old US-made **** over flimsy new Chinese (or US) made **** 8 days a week.

 

[scw1991]

I've restored vintage woodworking Delta/Rockwell and Powermatic machinery for the past 10 years and I agree, nothing comes close to what was manufactured years ago. The average 1HP motor weighed in at 75 lbs. I had several 3HP motors that weighed 150 lbs. These were built to last a VERY long time. Most motors were from the 1940's and still going strong to this day.

 

[ArmyVW_GuyInTX]

Used well made is better than shiny new Chinese any day!

Six or seven years ago I was in the same boat - looking for a good garage compressor for my home - I found an IR 80gallon vertical, 7.5 HP two stage (single phase electric) on Craigslist close to home. The guy was moving and couldn't take it with him, it was less than a year old when I bought it. I was very happy with the $700 spent.

It is outside behind my garage on a concrete pad, under the eave in an enclosure with an automatic drain. It is quiet, out of the weather, and doesn't take up space in the garage, plus the location is a few feet from the sub panel I put in the garage.

 

[kenfain]

The op asked for suggestions, the recommendations will depend on the answer to the question. New or used? Used to be a simple answer, Quincy, Curtis, IR. just to name a couple. Now even those are suspect. But each manufacturer has decent offerings. But you'll not likely find them at a big box store. But maybe that's exactly the kind of thing he's looking for. Some people like those things. There's a hundred good stories for every bad one. I personally own a late sixties model Curtis, that I recently rescued. Wouldn't think of going any other way. I highly recommend it. It's way cheaper, more fun, and personally rewarding IMHO. But it's not for everyone. So perhaps we should inquire, new or used?

 

[firebox40dash5]

I've restored vintage woodworking Delta/Rockwell and Powermatic machinery for the past 10 years and I agree, nothing comes close to what was manufactured years ago. The average 1HP motor weighed in at 75 lbs. I had several 3HP motors that weighed 150 lbs. These were built to last a VERY long time. Most motors were from the 1940's and still going strong to this day.

I about threw out my back picking up that 5hp GE motor for mine. It's a beast, probably pushing 1' diameter with the heat sink fins, and zerks for the bearings. Oh, and like 28FLA on 230V 1PH.

Compare to those 6-8" "5hp" motors rated around 17FLA.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Personally, I don't think the cost of a 2 stage pump is worth the extra cost for the average home shop. Most single stage pumps will do 125 psi and what do you really need 175-200 psi for anyway ?

CFM is more important than PSI.

 

[Jim Johnstone]

The issue is that most single stage pumps tend to be higher RPM and therefore noisy hot and wear out faster. Most 2 stage pumps are low RPM quiet cool running and last about forever. You can always run a 2 stage pump at 125 psi if you wanted.

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[Davefr]

Most single stage pumps will do 125 psi and what do you really need 175-200 psi for anyway ?

To squeeze more air molecules into the tank for higher efficiency.

 

[zkling]

True, but I would much rather have a ~18-24cfm singe stage comp, compared to a ~12-15cfm dual stage.

Clayton, I would definitely go electric over gas, unless you like loud noise and expensive running operation. Gas powered compressors exist for potability, that is all.

Beyond that, what is your budget? I would look for an older industrial unit. Quincy, Ingersol Rand, Kellog, Champion, etc. Something that runs slow, has pressurized oil lubrication, the works.

 

[Jim Johnstone]

True, but I would much rather have a ~18-24cfm singe stage comp, compared to a ~12-15cfm dual stage.

Clayton, I would definitely go electric over gas, unless you like loud noise and expensive running operation. Gas powered compressors exist for potability, that is all.

Beyond that, what is your budget? I would look for an older industrial unit. Quincy, Ingersol Rand, Kellog, Champion, etc. Something that runs slow, has pressurized oil lubrication, the works.

I had an 18cfm single stage and hated the *************. It would get so hot you couldnt rest your hand on the cylinder head for quite a while after it stopped running. It was so loud you couldnt talk to anyone in the garage. 2 stage pumps are much better made typically speaking.

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[zkling]

I had an 18cfm single stage and hated the *************. It would get so hot you couldnt rest your hand on the cylinder head for quite a while after it stopped running. It was so loud you couldnt talk to anyone in the garage. 2 stage pumps are much better made typically speaking.

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It must have been one of the lower quality homeowner grade units. What brand / model was it? My quincy 270 is a single stage and is nothing like what you have experienced.

 

[Jim Johnstone]

It must have been one of the lower quality homeowner grade units. What brand / model was it? My quincy 270 is a single stage and is nothing like what you have experienced.

Quincy is a whole different ballpark than most. Yes it was a homeowner grade 3 piston single stage *************. I still stick with my opinion, I would take a quality 2 stage over a single stage any day, even if it is a Quincy single stage. They are more efficient and put less stress on the pump and if you run them at 125 or even 150 instead of 175 they practically last forever.

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[scw1991]

Articul8,
First question would be, why do you feel you need a 2-stg 80 gallon compressor? Do you plan on continuously running a DA sander or sandblasting cabinet. I picked up a 2001 IR2475 2-stg compressor with 80 gallon vertical tank and I found myself using it for only household duties such as putting some air in the tires and using a blow gun to clean off parts. Every 6 months I'd break out my IR231C impact gun and rotate the tires. The compressor cycled on/off once a week at most. An 80 gallon tank storing 175 psi worth of air is a hell of a lot of air. while it had an extreme cool factor up against the wall in the garage, it was severe overkill for a small garage/workshop environment.

 

[p0lar]

Quincy is a whole different ballpark than most. Yes it was a homeowner grade 3 piston single stage *************. I still stick with my opinion, I would take a quality 2 stage over a single stage any day, even if it is a Quincy single stage. They are more efficient and put less stress on the pump and if you run them at 125 or even 150 instead of 175 they practically last forever.

I used to think a single stage wouldn't do the trick either, but I've almost finished a Quincy 240 rebuild and honestly.. knowing this thing is capable of 135 PSI at 24 SCFM with the same 7.5 HP motor.. I wouldn't be uncomfortable at all knowing it was tasked to the chore. What's great about the older single stage units is that you can purchase a used one spec'd for twice the HP (say a 10HP spec'd 270!), even if it does need a rebuild (which most don't), and then run it with a 5HP motor at roughly half the RPM and it will remain cool, quiet and comfortable the rest of its life.

Plus, they just sound cool chugging away in the corner. Admit it, there's a small part of each of us that can't help but to admire large, iron machinery. I say you embrace your inner-child, adopt/rescue an old Quincy/Curtis/IR/Champion/Saylor-Beall/etc.. work it as hard as you like, then give it to your grandchildren when your needs no longer meet its capabilities.

 

[Jim Johnstone]

I used to think a single stage wouldn't do the trick either, but I've almost finished a Quincy 240 rebuild and honestly.. knowing this thing is capable of 135 PSI at 24 SCFM with the same 7.5 HP motor.. I wouldn't be uncomfortable at all knowing it was tasked to the chore. What's great about the older single stage units is that you can purchase a used one spec'd for twice the HP (say a 10HP spec'd 270!), even if it does need a rebuild (which most don't), and then run it with a 5HP motor at roughly half the RPM and it will remain cool, quiet and comfortable the rest of its life.

Plus, they just sound cool chugging away in the corner. Admit it, there's a small part of each of us that can't help but to admire large, iron machinery. I say you embrace your inner-child, adopt/rescue an old Quincy/Curtis/IR/Champion/Saylor-Beall/etc.. work it as hard as you like, then give it to your grandchildren when your needs no longer meet its capabilities.

No one has said a single stage won't do the job. 2 stage are just more efficient with less internal stresses.

You are totally right about the old equipment being better quality and nice slow turning. But everything you said about rebuilding old single stages also applies to old 2 stage pumps.

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[p0lar]

No one has said a single stage won't do the job. 2 stage are just more efficient with less internal stresses.

The degree of efficiency of a 2-stage compressor vs. single stage depends heavily on the stroke as well as the piston diameter of the high side with respect to the low pressure side.

But, to really understand efficiency, we have to look at power input vs desired output. If the desired output is pressure, then the single stage can't compete as the pressures it can reliably achieve are limited by its design. If it's volume, however, the 2-stage is simply overwhelmed by elementary physics alone, given equivalent RPM, stroke and low-side piston diameters. This presumes that both have the required power input to drive each at equivalent RPMs and maintain a constant temperature, which we know will never happen - 2-stage compressors are always pushing more heat, which will lessen their thermodynamic efficiency to some degree.

In terms of less internal stress, that is also heavily dependent. It's probably not going to be less stress, otherwise the high-side wrist pin wouldn't be the first place to look for a 2-stage compressor knock. Also, the valve bumpers on 2-stage compressors take significantly more abuse on the high-side than single stage compressors at any point, as do the rest of the parts inline with air delivery to the receiver.

All that being said, I still prefer to use a 2-stage compressor, simply because if nothing else, I love the thermodynamic complications it entails.

 

[Articul8]

Honestly it if could find a deal on a used one I would jump all over it. That Cambell roll around I bought for penny's on a dollar bc it fell over and busted the plastic cover and the belt was missing, that was it, but still might consider new one just bc for reassurance of the maintainace that's going to happen to the compressor

 

[Articul8]

Wow very in depth POLAR thanks almost like you went shakespear on us. hahaha and yes Scw1991 the shop sits on a dead end road w few houses around and the compressor will be out side, to consider gas is kinda stupid bc I have a lil gas powered one we used at the drag strip so it would be electric and as far as use goes, ill be there a lot I'm doing a One tons build on fortys on a Cherokee so lots of air tools> impacts, air guns, shears, cutoff tools. Will be needed, Will have a soda blaster that's air powered along with that's I've got a Honda crx build to finish then a 66 mustang coupe so I suppose I need to buy a cot too.

 

[Jim Johnstone]

The degree of efficiency of a 2-stage compressor vs. single stage depends heavily on the stroke as well as the piston diameter of the high side with respect to the low pressure side.

But, to really understand efficiency, we have to look at power input vs desired output. If the desired output is pressure, then the single stage can't compete as the pressures it can reliably achieve are limited by its design. If it's volume, however, the 2-stage is simply overwhelmed by elementary physics alone, given equivalent RPM, stroke and low-side piston diameters. This presumes that both have the required power input to drive each at equivalent RPMs and maintain a constant temperature, which we know will never happen - 2-stage compressors are always pushing more heat, which will lessen their thermodynamic efficiency to some degree.

In terms of less internal stress, that is also heavily dependent. It's probably not going to be less stress, otherwise the high-side wrist pin wouldn't be the first place to look for a 2-stage compressor knock. Also, the valve bumpers on 2-stage compressors take significantly more abuse on the high-side than single stage compressors at any point, as do the rest of the parts inline with air delivery to the receiver.

All that being said, I still prefer to use a 2-stage compressor, simply because if nothing else, I love the thermodynamic complications it entails.

One thing I want to mention here is that the second stage wrist pin is obviously the place to look when you hear a knock but that has nothing to do with 2 stage compressors having higher internal stresses. Obviously the second stage is going to wear faster than the first stage since it sees higher pressure but it's no worse than a single stage compressor. In a single stage compressor every piston is the high end and anyone of them could develop a knock. But like you said it comes down to cylinder diameter. I would bet on average the smaller diamter second stage cylinder working at 175 psi is under less stress than a larger diameter single stage cylinder working at 135 psi.

On a slightly related note I am going to be working on a rebuild of a 4 stage 5000 psi compressor soon. I will post lots of pics when I do that one. It's a unique design. 3 piston 4 stage. The final stage piston floats in the cylinder and isn't attached to a connecting rod at all.

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