Compressor system

[Durka]

BTW, those diaphragm regulators work much better/smoother recovery,- goes unnoticed. At the gun end, you throw a strait through pressure gauge in line to measure what you have at the gun operation. Regulate it down to what you need at the diaphragm regulator on the wall. after it's set, you can trust it. At the gun end, pull the gauge before you begin work...it's no longer needed. Make for a very light gun end, which is what you want for control.

If you don't want pressure loss, like I said, piping is 3x the tool fitting. Hose should be 1/2" ID... - If you want to maintain your compressors CFM ratings.

BTW, all the math (formulas) are at the Quincy site if you need a little help with your set up.

 

[manoweb]

Hey thanks to ANYBODY that contributed to this thread. No need to argue, everybody's opinion is valuable and gives me different point of views. Very much appreciated are the pictures of your CA systems. If you like, keep them coming! Thank you again!

 

[Durka]

No problem with the pics. Maybe I need to read through it again, -I didn't notice any real arguments; - opinions yes.

Good Luck

 

[manoweb]

Hey later I will take the picture, but I am considering all issues regarding the hose size etc. Let's say I go with a 1/2" hose, that I understand has a 3/8" fitting. However, all reels I have seen, including for example this one, use a 1/4" inlet:

http://www.harborfreight.com/100-ft-steel-air-hose-reel-46342.html

At that point is it still worth using a 1/2" hose when I could simply get something like this:

http://www.harborfreight.com/50-ft-...ose-reel-with-3-8-eighth-inch-hose-93897.html

that uses 3/8" hose with 1/4" inlet?


The question is also: how much better are the "automatic" reels compared to the regular ones?

 

[Durka]

Yea that was a hurdle for me as well when building mine. For awhile I did without a reel this time and used Milton 1/2" G couplers (99cfm) at station end and light 1/4" High Flow couplers at the gun/tool ends. Astro Pneumatics 89 cfm safety couplers, - best on the market as far as 1/4" + flow without restriction. Built in regulators as well.

Anyway, I wanted a high flow reel and all I've checked were bottlenecked except for the Reelcraft, 1/2" x 50' model. I didn't really want to pay that much for a reel. I looked around for used reels with the same specs, - no luck ; finally forked it over for a new one. I got what I wanted as far as flow, -but I'm not impressed with the reel itself or Reelcrafts customer service.

That's right, the fitting at hose ends for 1/2" is 3/8" ID. Can't get around that unless you run 3/4" hose lol. You don't need to go that far. You have already doubled your flow from using hi flow fittings. I suggest you keep looking for a reel with a 1/2" outlet . Maybe you'll get lucky. I gave it about 2 months before caving on a new Reelcraft $$$.

I made my own hoses btw. Made things much simpler and it wasn't too pricey.

 

[manoweb]

Problem is, I'd really need the compressor to be running by the end of the week, as I need to fix my car. I'm tempted to go with a "regular" reel for now and learn some lessons for when I will be building the new garage. Another option that I haven't considered so far is to bring a 1/2" hose (without reel) to the place where I will be actually fixing things (about 50' away) and then place regulator and a small reel there...

 

[Durka]

That doesn't sound good. Well, what have you planned at the compressor..Pipping, runs and such ?

 

[manoweb]

Why not good? I have a place, on the side of the house, under a carport, that is where I do my work most of the times. I would be needing CA there very often. Sometimes in the garage also, but only for minor things (blow gun).
I can run a hose from the garage to the side of the house, inside, along with the copper pipes for water. I wouldn't be running a full black pipe line because this will only be temporary.
Once this line arrives to the carport, I can install the pressure regulator there and use a smaller reel, instead of dragging the 50ft of hose on the floor every time.

 

[Durka]

Your going to be pushing a lot of water that way.

Hose WILL load up w/vapor. Some of that liquifies some of it won't, it can't if your using copper and hose without a after-cooler. All that gets pushed down stream which is more work for your compressor, Not to mention what that does to the filter (s), regulator as they will get hit hard. Also your tool will load up with vapor which cuts shiiii out of longevity and/or run time.

There's a MUCH better way. Unless I'm missing something, -I asked what you had planned for your piping and runs. What exactly do you mean when you say copper pipes for water and full black pipe. Can you describe where that fits into your planned run ?

Like I said before, first thing you have to do is plan how your going to get rid of the moisture. Do you not care about that at this time or are your incorporating an after cooler. How are you running your stations from the compressor (?)..start at the compressor, end at the reel. Tell me what you got so I can properly inform you.

 

[manoweb]

I do not have anything, I just need the compressor this weekend and I started this thread because, as it is evident, I have no idea how to design a proper system!

The copper pipes I mentioned are the ones that run in the house for hot and cold water. A possible plan consists in running a hose above the ceiling (very easy for me to do) along with the regular house plumbing to get to the carport, where I will be maybe putting a pressure regulator.

 

[Durka]

I do not have anything, I just need the compressor this weekend and I started this thread because, as it is evident, I have no idea how to design a proper system!

The copper pipes I mentioned are the ones that run in the house for hot and cold water. A possible plan consists in running a hose above the ceiling (very easy for me to do) along with the regular house plumbing to get to the carport, where I will be maybe putting a pressure regulator.

Alright. Well..... Your going to need a regulator regardless, -unless you plan on governing your pressure manually at the compressor..-you know, keep it at 100 lbs since you'll loose at least 10 psi through that much hose. Temporary right?

I suggest at least one water separator mounted as close as you can to the gun/tool (the bigger the better and cheap, like a harbor freight unit or what not) and perhaps one of those cheap inline filters right at the gun, like this, -

http://www.harborfreight.com/disposable-inline-moisture-filter-68224.html

since you'll be pushing quite a bit of vapor for a long ways. Yea, those are cheap but they do work. You'll still need a water separator like say , next to your hose reel.

You can see how pressure loss your dealing with by mounting just a straight inline gauge just before the gun/tool. Set the compressor at 100 lbs, maybe more depending upon what the pressure is at the gun end when pulling the trigger. That will only work so long before your have to recharge the compressor back up to a 100 lbs or so.
All that said, -it would be allot easier just mounting a regulator right after the separator by the hose reel.

I'm not sure how cheap you want to go for a temp set up. (?) Realize that water vapor is hell on your tools. You should make some sort of attempt to minimize it , -even if it is temporary.

Depending how temporary, I would probably set something up like this, right at the compressor, -

http://www.tptools.com/Metal-Piping-Kits.html

not exactly like that, similar. You can do better than that with a few modifications. I can help you build that for much more benefit. Yea just a loop at the compressor w/black iron, -depending upon how high you go (7' or 12') with the loop, you can eliminate 70-95% of your moisture before your air hose run begins.

You probably won't be able to get that done before the weekend, but if you plan on continued use after and for a longer period of time, -months years..

Something to think about anyway.

 

[Durka]

BTW, -there's some nice benefits with that particular Quincy air compressor. It's a two stage, v-pump and has a fairly long finned inter-cooler system. This will help allot. It's also a 175 psi unit and that can work for yuh as well. Keep your pressure to the regulator at max...always. (if you purchase a reg). You'll have MORE usable air, your compressor will run allot less which gives it more time to cool between cycles and,- if you take care of the moisture right away , it will be much more efficient.

Good Luck.

 

[manoweb]

Hi! What makes me not extremely concerned about moisture for the temporary setup is that I hardly see more than 20% humidity, and recently has been more on the 10% side. In fact, I need a humidifier in the room where I sleep. Today I thought about it a little more and I realized I probably need CA both in the garage and in the carport I mention before. So I'm thinking to buy a "tee" and attach two ball valves to begin with.

 

[manoweb]

Hey a very practical question: I have this 1/2" hose with the 3/8" fitting. How am I supposed to screw it in a 3/8" female, do I just rotate the whole hose or are there fittings that make this easy? The problem is, if I run this hose in the ceiling, I won't be able to unscrew it from its connector if I need to

 

[Durka]

Hi! What makes me not extremely concerned about moisture for the temporary setup is that I hardly see more than 20% humidity, and recently has been more on the 10% side. In fact, I need a humidifier in the room where I sleep. Today I thought about it a little more and I realized I probably need CA both in the garage and in the carport I mention before. So I'm thinking to buy a "tee" and attach two ball valves to begin with.

Atmospheric humidity does make a difference, regardless of what that is, you will almost always have 100% humidity leaving that compressor. Compressing the air will make it's own.

Think I'm giving up here.

 

[manoweb]

Sure Durka, I'm not disagreeing with you. I just need the compressor this weekend, and I am willing to risk some water accumulation for this temporary setup.

Back to more pressing questions, anybody thinks installing quick-disconnects with 3/8" at the compressor end is a good idea to feed into my 1/2" 50ft line?

 

[texasfiremedic]

It will be fine for the weekend. Just don't use cheep connectors and throttle your compressor down at the pressure regulator switch. I have been using my compressor for years without regulator just line pressure. This being said is it best no and my impacts probably suffer a little. Although I don't agree with some of the setups that I see on here.

 

[manoweb]

thanks texasfiremedic. You have a very good avatar.

Today I worked a little on the system. I used a wide variety of couplers adapters and connectors and I now have my 50ft 1/2" CA line well in place. I think I will install a hose reel in the vicinity of my carport so I can work without distractions. To not damage my tools too much, for the time being I will open the ball valve only at half or so, to reduce the pressure, until I can afford a real pressure regulator and whatnot.

 

[texasfiremedic]

Only cracking the ball valve will only inhibit flow. Once it you stop using it will pressure up to line pressure. This will mean that the second or couple of will be at full line pressure I.E. tank pressure. It will hit hard at first then continued slow and pressure will be reduced by the lack of flow. When you decide that a regulator is in budget then buy a larger one than the line size. To clarify say you run 3/4 inch for your piping. The regulator that I would want would be a 1 inch regulator. This increase would make up for any loss in the regulator. Simply said that the larger the size of the regulator the more flow that can be produced if it is designed for high flow. you can Just use bushings to bush up and bush down. If you want to make a header system you can use the same regulator. If you buy a high flow regulator, which you should. The one regulator can regulate the whole system. Although this will not account for pressure drop through out the line after the regulator. Without getting into flow dynamics stay as large as you can then reduce down at the point of use.

Compressor: Pipe your drain so that you can access it easily. I has been stated if it is not easy to get to it don't get done. This is true. You may want to look into a automatic drain. If you do auto or manual valve pipe your drain to a drain or outside (check local regs.). Just remember the water that comes out of your tank may have a little oil in it. This should be a very small amount. If you have a lot, you got problems. Oh and not to mention hard pipe away from your drain. Try not to use flex. If it get away from where it is mounted it will it will slap the Sh_t who or what ever is around it and not to mention cover what or who with messy condensate. The connection from your tank to your hard piping will need flexible pipe or a vibration loop between the two. Remember vibration loop not an expansion loop these are two different animals. The best is a braided high pressure flex hose.

Piping: The thing that I have not seen anybody do. Put a couple of futures in your piping system. A future is a line size tee, ******, ball valve and plug that can be tied into future . This is especially if you use screw pipe. It ***** having to break a system down to put in a tee. At the end of your main put a line size ball valve and a plug. This way you can tie onto the end of your piping main if needed. Also you can blow down your main if a problem with condensate should arise. Doing this will also move any debris out of the main. BE CAREFUL the particles of trash and water will move out at piping at very high velocity.

If you would like me to continue. I can keep going. It will be about filters, water separators, dryers, bypasses. etc... All of my experience comes from may 12 years plus years in the pipefitting industry. I am a journeyman pipefitter. All industrial which usually means more money than the average person can afford but very good systems.

Also thanks. I think its one of those "think and grin". It took me awhile to find that one.

 

[manoweb]

I would love you (or everybody else that has helped me a lot) to continue but I will put in practice only when I'll build the new garage. My current setup has just to work for the weekend

This said, I have a very mundane question: I bought a hose reel and I would like to connect it to a hose. Right now I put a quick disconnect between the two. In a better system, how can you screw in the hose in the reel? That's something I can't figure out

 

[texasfiremedic]

I know I was just giving you ideas.

 

[texasfiremedic]

Ok, I will continue on..

Desiccant dryer: There are many in the market. You can select from regenerative systems to single use. I would select on that i could take out the desiccant and place it in a oven for drying. Then place back in the unit or buy and extra and do the swap. Even though the desiccant dryer will dry your air it is necessary to place a water air separator prior to the desiccant dry. This will catch the already condensed water that can be easily taken from the system. These systems take no power and are easily piped. A regenerative system can also be built the only catch is that they require and lot of air (continuous). This is because they blow air (regenerative air) out at the bottom of the bottom of the filter that is being regenerated through piping into the open air. I do believe in time these fill up with moisture and have to be recharged but not that often. I may be wrong. Any way the regenerative systems are generally for the people that don't worry that the air compressor is running all the time or more often.

Cold dryers or heat exchanging dryers: These systems

Filters: The best place to place a filter is at the point of use. They make all different types of filters. The sky is the limit on purity. I can't say how filtrated it has to be for painting. I can only assume cleanroom quality filtrated air is not a must. Probably get bashed for that one. I'm fairly sure that most filters do not have a desiccant dryer in them. So they should be after your dryer as to not water log your filter. I do believe in placing on after you dryer keep the system clean.

Bypasses: Anytime that you pipe a water separator, regulator, dryer and filter into your system make sure that you make a bypass. This is so that if something breaks and you can't get the part for awhile you may continue to use you system without interruption. The only problem with a bypass you no longer get added benefits of the items that you bypassed and you may contaminate your system.

Hose fitting and connections: Once again there is a large selection of these. Try to keep all your connection the same type. This meaning the same design. Not all will fit one another. Just look at the flow rates if it is stated. try to get the high flow fittings may cost you a little more but better on your high flow needs.

Last thing: well maybe.
Unions: use them they are cheep and make it easier when something screws up. I.E. filter, regulator or dryer

I hope that is helps. If I remember anything else I will add to.If you need any help just PM me.

 

[manoweb]

Thank you very much. I will save all this thread for when I'll build the new garage.

 

[Durka]

Huh, I was searching,-"constructing a weekend water spicket" and I ended up here..

 

[manoweb]

OK so I worked pretty much all weekend with the compressor. Let me start with saying I never had any "water" issue, never seen even a single drop, and I used the blow gun a lot. I did use the impact gun a few times also.

This said, I feel like the pressure at the end is not very high; the problem should be that I have a 1/2" 50' line that connects to a reel hose 3/8" 50'. That's a total of 100' with 3 quick disconnects (just the regular ones from HF, I did not have time to look for the high flow ones).

At this point I'd like to buy a manometer to see what is the actual pressure at the end of this line, and then see if I need to start remove the restrictions.