Compressor TOO BIG - exist?

[edl]

Hi All - I have an opportunity to buy a new compressor with the following specs:

21.5 CFM @ 175 PSI
7.5 HP Baldor motor
21.5 CFM @ 175 PSI
Belt driven 2 stage compressor
ASME tank with safety valve
Cast iron cylinder
Stainless steel valves
Automatic stop/start controls
Two year warranty
7.5 HP, two stage, 230V, single phase, 29 amps, maximum pressure: 175 PSI, Air delivery: 26.8 CFM @ 40 PSI, 26.0 CFM @ 90 PSI, 24.2 CFM @ 100 PSI, 21.5 CFM 175 PSI; Oil lubrication, Overall dimensions: 36'' L x 24'' D x 69'' H, Shipping weight: 479 lbs.


for $960 instead of $1350 - I probably do not need such a powerful machine, as I will mostly be running air tools - on an occassion, a blast cabinet and perhaps might graduate to do some painting at some point - it appeals to me to have the ability to things that require more cfm's and I generally subscribe to the "get the most for your money" philosophy - BUT, I have heard that if you have a big unit and do not run it enough, it is actually bad for the machine - is that true? If so, and one had an underutilized machine, are there steps (short of just running it) to take (extra draining, filtering, lubricating, etc.) that one can take to overcome whatever the problem is from the underusage? Hope this makes sense - thanks!!

 

[mikeyr]

no such as too big a compressor, you will use it. Trust me, I worked up from way too small to small to ok but could be bigger to nice but.... to ok now I have what I need..

 

[rockwithjason]

drain the tank regularly and run it for a while every other week and you will be fine.

 

[W-Cummins]

Sounds like a great unit, get it you will never be unhappy with it being too large. I have a few compressors and I think that a 5 hp (true hp) 2 stage is too small for some uses that a ********* home user might want to do. Pressure sand blasting, a larger bead blast cabnet, larger air tools ( I have a 4" 22k rpm sander that I just love but it takes 22cfm to run it!) etc.....


I say get it, you will not be unhappy and you will not hurt if from under use

William....

 

[z28toz06]

I spoke to a tech that sells quincy and he told me to stay away from the 7.5 for home use because of electrical requirements. didnt fully understand but he said i would be better off with a 5 horse 60 or 80 gallon tank

 

[l_bilyk]

Baldor motors are nice high quality pieces... sounds like a nice compressor
I say go for it

 

[l_bilyk]

PS: I dont think you can hurt it by not running it enough

 

[Inetmonkey]

I hate to be the party pooper, but the specs on that compressor sound very similar to the US General "Air Superiority" compressor sold by Harbor Freight. I was going to buy the exact same compressor, but am now thinking of something with similar specs from Campbell Hausfeld. I have no personal experience with the compressor but I've heard 2 people's opinions of it: 1 person loves it and uses it constantly, the other hates it and says it has never run properly and can't get any kind of help from HF on its warranty.

For the price you're getting it for, I might risk it, but I'm ALWAYS wary of anything sold by HF.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

The Baldor motor is a plus. The amp draw of 29 is slightly below most 7.5 motors, they usually are 31 to 33 amps, not sure why this is lower. The CFMs is on the low side, usually expect to see 23 to 24. What is the brand on the compressor?

I have a Cambell-Hausfeld manufactured, Home Depot Husky branded 7.5 hp/two stage/80 gal/24 cfm unit. These sell now for $1699 if I recall correctly. All 7.5 hp units generally sell for $1500 and up. Why is this one so cheap? Chinese or Italian made pump? Shipping weight of 479 sounds kinda low too, could be an aluminum/steel sleeved pump instead of an iron pump.

As for current draw, mine is in a shop with a 200 amp panel on a transformer dedicated to it. The compressor is fed via a 60 amp subfeed to a subpanel and a 40 amp breaker. Yes the lights dim when it starts up, but it doesn't run often either.

This might be an OK deal but I suspect it is not a great deal by any means, if you are looking for quality or durability.

Charles

 

[Charles (in GA)]

For comparison, the specs on a comparable Campbell-Hausfeld unit

Air Compressor, 7.5HP running, 80 Gallon
Item Number: TF211201AJ
# Cast Iron pump
# 27.2 SCFM at 90 PSI and 100 percent duty cycle
# Prewired magnetic starter
# 80 Gallon vertical ASME tank
# Two-stage Air Compressor, 7.5HP running, 80 Gallon
# Warranty: 3 Years Lmt
# Weight: 540.00 lb
# Length: 30.50 in
# Width: 39.00 in
# Height: 77.00 in
# Pkg Girth: 262.50 in
# Cube: 53.00 cf
Approx.Retail: $1,773.58
Cast iron pump delivers 15,000 plus hours of life and reliable performance. 100 percent duty cycle meets all air tool demands, including air sanding. Prewired magnetic starter provides safe and clean power with a safe shop installation. 80 Gallon vertical ASME tank provides an abundance of air storage while using minimal floor space.

Notice the weight? 60 lbs more than the SHIPPING weight of the one you cite. Oh yes, do they include a magnetic starter??? you will have to have one and they are expensive by themselves.

Charles

 

[Charles (in GA)]

I hate to be the party pooper, but the specs on that compressor sound very similar to the US General "Air Superiority" compressor sold by Harbor Freight. I was going to buy the exact same compressor, but am now thinking of something with similar specs from Campbell Hausfeld. I have no personal experience with the compressor but I've heard 2 people's opinions of it: 1 person loves it and uses it constantly, the other hates it and says it has never run properly and can't get any kind of help from HF on its warranty.

For the price you're getting it for, I might risk it, but I'm ALWAYS wary of anything sold by HF.

You are correct, the specs are exactly the same. They illustrate the mag starter, but don't mention it. They say "cast iron cylinder" that means the rest of the pump is aluminum, you can bet.

For the price of $960 if its brand new, yes, its probably worth it.

Charles

 

[PAToyota]

If you're planning to do any amount of work with that blast cabinet, that compressor is not "too large" by any means...

 

[jhchoppers]

We are on our 3rd compressor now, each time big, bigger and BIGGER. I wish we would of went BIG the first time and saved the money in the long run.

The price is great, you can always sell it if you don't need it and break even...

 

[edl]

We are on our 3rd compressor now, each time big, bigger and BIGGER. I wish we would of went BIG the first time and saved the money in the long run.

The price is great, you can always sell it if you don't need it and break even...

Thanks to all for the input - yes indeed this is a HF compressor - but here is a dirty little secret - IT IS NOT MADE IN CHINA - care to guess where it is made? - SOUTH CAROLINA by a company called ABAC/American IMC, Inc.

I know, shocking - but true - I spoke with ABAC personally today, and indeed they private lable the largest HF compressor (perhaps others, but he said not all). ABAC is an Italian company, contact info as follows:

ABAC Group Head Office

ABAC aria compressa S.p.A.
Via Einaudi, 6 - 10070 Robassomero (TO) - ITALY
Email: [email protected]
Internet: www.abac.it
www.abacgroup.com


American IMC, Inc. started making compressors in the early 1980's - they sourced the pumps from ABAC and eventually in the late 90's entered into a joint venture with ABAC leading to ABAC/American IMC Inc. You probably have heard of at least one other compressor the joint venture makes and markets - Belaire, which I believe we all think of as a great item.

I guess this has to make us all rethink HF - it is true that the majority of their things are made in China - also a majority are private labeled, but on important items, it makes sense to dig to see who is behind it.

This particular compressor is not the equal of the Belaire 7.5 hp compressor - they have the same motor, but not the same pump - which is where the key difference is. Of course, HF's list price on this unit is 1350 - the Belaire unit is 2500 (more or less) - Charles, the CH 7.5h you compare the HF unit to is 1700 - no doubt it is probably a better unit - but also costs almost double - and triple in the case of the Belaire. I can't imagine anybody pointing to unit with a sales price below 1000 and a list price of 1350 that offers what the HF unit offers - although if we compare it to units double and triple the price, anything would fail to make that comparison.

One additional word about warranty, this is another important area to investigate with HF - this particular item has a 2 year MFG warranty - and the ABAC rep said that they backstop the warranty program directly - the extended plan that HF sells is their own - and who knows who underwrites it.

Personally, I think it speaks very highly of HF and of ABAC/American IMC that they partnered to offer folks a made in the USA compressor, with outstanding (if not the best) parts at a tremendous price. Another interesting tidbit is that HF has actually very little markup on this unit - it is one of their loss leaders - they make their real money on all those 9.99 things that they buy for .50 cents.

Based on the overwhelmng input that bigger truly is better, I will pull the trigger - many thanks to all of you for your input. I was pleased to have poured a small 4x4 pad for it today (thanks to other input from the forum) - tomorrow I will build a shelter for the unit as it will sit outside.

Now - time to surf on how to plumb the thing - I know there have been a ton of posts on that. I hope this tidbit on the behind the scenes story of at least one HF product may give us all pause to not jump to conclusions - and, yes, I too thought it was made in China before I started researching!!

thanks,
edl

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Charles, the CH 7.5h you compare the HF unit to is 1700 - no doubt it is probably a better unit - but also costs almost double - and triple in the case of the Belaire. I can't imagine anybody pointing to unit with a sales price below 1000 and a list price of 1350 that offers what the HF unit offers - although if we compare it to units double and triple the price, anything would fail to make that comparison.l

I won't argue the features vs price, no doubt its a deal. I supsected it was the italian made aluminum pump I'd seen in the Northern Handyman store in the past. I suppose I was playing the devils advocate here. You've done your homework and are getting a darn good price. If I had to pay $1350 I'd be paying $1700 and buying the C-H or similar, but at less than $1000, it does become a no brainer, especially for ocassional use.

Make darn sure you have a good electrical circuit to run it on. I know copper is high right now, but use #6 and you won't regret it. Don't forget, a disconnect within sight of the unit and no more than 50 ft away. A 60 amp rated air conditioner outside disconnect box is one cheap way to do this, they are only around $10. I used conduit to a subpanel next to the comp and a breaker in the panel and flex cable to the mag starter box.

Charles

 

[edl]

I won't argue the features vs price, no doubt its a deal. I supsected it was the italian made aluminum pump I'd seen in the Northern Handyman store in the past. I suppose I was playing the devils advocate here. You've done your homework and are getting a darn good price. If I had to pay $1350 I'd be paying $1700 and buying the C-H or similar, but at less than $1000, it does become a no brainer, especially for ocassional use.

Make darn sure you have a good electrical circuit to run it on. I know copper is high right now, but use #6 and you won't regret it. Don't forget, a disconnect within sight of the unit and no more than 50 ft away. A 60 amp rated air conditioner outside disconnect box is one cheap way to do this, they are only around $10. I used conduit to a subpanel next to the comp and a breaker in the panel and flex cable to the mag starter box.

Charles

Appreciate the vote of confidence, Charles, as I pulled the trigger earlier today.

Okay, so now I have a compressor - NOW WHAT. I assume I will want to wire this directly to the panel? If so, what amperage? Charles, I think you are saying to use #6 copper pipe for the plumbing? Does the #6 denote the diamater or the thickness of the pipe - if the latter, what diameter is recommended - I know there are a couple of comprehensive posts on plumbing for a compressor, so I'll read those before asking more ameteur questions...thanks all - by the way, the concrete pad came out really well - thanks to those that helped on that post!

Does anyone know where you can get the rubber pads to dampen the vibration? Neither the local HD or Lowes has them - I have an old tire...4"x4" big enough??

 

[wilbilt]

The reference to #6 refers to 6 gauge copper wire to connect it with.

I assume at 7.5 HP it will require a 40A circuit, but this information should be included in the compressor manual.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Appreciate the vote of confidence, Charles, as I pulled the trigger earlier today.

Okay, so now I have a compressor - NOW WHAT. I assume I will want to wire this directly to the panel? If so, what amperage? Charles, I think you are saying to use #6 copper pipe for the plumbing? Does the #6 denote the diamater or the thickness of the pipe - if the latter, what diameter is recommended

I was suggesting #6 Copper WIRE for the electrical.

Your choices for the plumbing are varied, but if you plan on running a main line with drops, it should be at least 3/4 with 1/2 drops, even if you do a loop all the way around the building.

As far as amps, if 29 is correct you could get by with a 40 amp breaker since 80% max capacity of a 40 amp breaker is 32 amps you are under the limit. However, you could find yourself having nuisance trips and you might consider going to a 50 amp breaker. Don't know the distance of your electrical run (actual wire length, up and down walls, etc) but I am running about 60 ft of #6 THHN wire (with a #10 green ground) in a 3/4 conduit to a subpanel adjacent to the compressor, with a 50 amp breaker (wire is fed by a 60 amp breaker in the main panel) and about 5 ft more of that wire in a flex conduit to the compressor itself, and have had no problems at all.

If you use aluminum wire you will need #4.

As I noted, you must have an electrical disconnect in sight of the compressor, no more than 50 straight line feet from it per code. If you are mounting this outside you will need a disconnect adjacent to the unit most likely. A good weather proof disconnect would be one of those boxes you mount outside the house to supply a outside central air unit. They are about 10 dollars and rated at 60 amps generally (but are NOT a circuit breaker, just a switch or disconnect, the breaker will be in your elect panel.) and are weather proof. Keeps you legal and SAFE.

Your circuit breaker MAY be as large as 250% of your nameplate amps (72.5 amps in your case) but does not need to be any bigger than what will work and not trip, but never exceed 80% of the breaker's capacity on a continous draw.

I am not an electrician but have the 2005 NEC in front of me with several other good references also, and believe this to be correct.

Charles

 

[wilbilt]

Oops, my bad.....a quick check of the downloaded HF manual states it requires a 60A circuit.

Wowsers.