Concrete coating mistake

[chillaxing]

I was excited to move into our new house. I could not wait to get the garage set up. I hired a local contractor to install an epoxy coating on the fresh concrete garage floor. I cleaned the garage to get it ready for their arrival. Day one, they show around 10am and leave around 3 pm. The preped the floor applied a base coat and covered the floor with paint chips.... Lots of paint chips. Day two,they show up before 10am and leave around 3pm. They applied a top coat over the paint chips. When I get home I notice air bubbles under the paint chips.... Lots of air bubbles. When I called the contractor and sent him pictures he said he did not know what caused the bubbles, he thought maybe the new concrete was emitting some sort of gas.
He let the flooring set for 1 month and the bubbles never went away. The contract came back lightly etched the top coat, applied more paint chips and then another top coat. Now there is a difference in the area with a single coat and the areas with 2 coats, and there are still some bubbles ( but no as bad as the first coat)
Should I be concerned with bubbles?

 

[chillaxing]

Before they started

 

[chillaxing]

During the process, after the first day

 

[chillaxing]

First coat bubbles

 

[FOWLER]

How new was your floor, maybe it wasn't cured completely?
Installer "should" be correcting this for you. I'm no expert but I'd want nothing less than grinding it all off and starting over if it were me, at the least a full refund. Is there a warranty period with this ? From reading here seems the consensus is using a primer first , doesn't sound like one was used. Hope you get it fixed.

 

[Jamie V]

Did they do any kind of moisture test on the concrete?

 

[pauloman]

the bubbles are caused by air coming out of the concrete as the day temperature warms up. The best time to apply an epoxy is after midnight.

In must garages temps are pretty constant and the cement contractors 'pack down' the wet cement, forcing most of the air out of the concrete. This is almost never done on DIY cement pours, workshops, barns, etc. which are generally full of air filled cement.

 

[bygasper]

This happened on my "green" concrete last fall in cool weather. All we put down was a sealer, but it bubbled. Te contractor is awesome, explained it was off-gassing thy normally only happens I really hot weather, and came and fixed it. Again, this was just sealer. Therefore he spread xylene to dissolve the coating, then reapplied the sealer.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

He may be able to screen those down and seal again.

 

[chillaxing]

How new was your floor, maybe it wasn't cured completely?
Installer "should" be correcting this for you. I'm no expert but I'd want nothing less than grinding it all off and starting over if it were me, at the least a full refund. Is there a warranty period with this ? From reading here seems the consensus is using a primer first , doesn't sound like one was used. Hope you get it fixed.

The contractor said it has a life time warranty against lifting or peeling (it's in writing on the contract). The second coat looks better but still has some bubbles.

 

[chillaxing]

Jamie v- I am not sure if a moisture test was conducted. Is that a standard step they should have done?
Pauloman- thanks for the inside about the bubbles. The contractor thought the concrete was expelled trapped air as well. The concrete was poured in Nov 2012.
Legacy- I think I may ask the contractor about screening it down. I am not sure what that means but the contractor did say that I would not be happy with a "patch job".

 

[TigerGA]

Just remember a lifetime contract is only as good as the man standing behind it. Get him to correct it now...he may be out of business or have moved on if the floor fails later.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

It is a common practice not to lay a primer on a full chip. Not a good practice.
Did he lay a primer?

This may be the issue.

 

[chillaxing]

It is a common practice not to lay a primer on a full chip. Not a good practice.
Did he lay a primer?

This may be the issue.

Yes, they did lay a primer but not sure what type/brand. He said he also diamond grind the concrete. If the concrete is expelling air, will it stop or will more bubbles develop over time?

 

[FOWLER]

The contractor said it has a life time warranty against lifting or peeling (it's in writing on the contract). The second coat looks better but still has some bubbles.

Good that it's in writing and I hope he stands behind it and makes it right for you. Sounds like he took the appropriate steps and it could be bad product not the install, or something weird going on with your slab. Laying out lots of $$ and not being happy with the results can make you physically ill, Ive been there lol. Im doing the same color on my 1000 sq ft floor as soon as the weather cools around here, threads like this scare the hell out of me lol.

 

[dcs Inc]

It's not "air" that is causing the bubbles in the epoxy. It's moisture. Moisture is present in all concrete and if it gets to a certain level it will cause epoxy failures. Moisture travels in the form of vapor. It is attracted by heat so if the room is real warm or the temps are rising then it will actually pull moisture out of the concrete. Descending temps will push moisture back into the slab during epoxy application.

Always do vapor emission tests on concrete before coating it with a non breathable coating. It's suicide not to. It's always better to apply a primer before applying your "money" coat. In doing so you might as well apply a vapor barrier epoxy primer for added insurance.

Concrete takes approximately 30 days per inch of thickness to hydrate. The 28 day number that is frequently thrown around is just an estimate of 80% compression strength achieved and has nothing to do with the amount of moisture in concrete.

Elite Crete Systems manufactures a vapor barrier epoxy, VB-5, that will hold back 12 pounds of pressure. I'm sure the folks selling their relabeled products on here have a similar product. There are a few other vapor barrier epoxies that hold up back a tremendous amount of moisture but they are very expensive and require a certified installer.

If the vapor emissions exceed the recommendations of the epoxy manufacture then as long as the slab is emitting excessive moisture, your problems will continue, (and grow).

Did you see the primer coat? Did the contractor apply any water to the concrete? How old is the slab? If there was a primer coat applied then the bubbles would be there and the contractor should have done something then.

 

[dcs Inc]

Not use a primer with a flaked floor????? Wow Legacy, where on earth did you get fed that idea? (It's incorrect by the way)

 

[dcs Inc]

I keep going back a reading the comments on this thread. 99% of all failures are caused by installer error, not product faults. Of course it could be the wrong product but that still is installer error for choosing that particular product to begin with.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Not use a primer with a flaked floor????? Wow Legacy, where on earth did you get fed that idea? (It's incorrect by the way)

My original post: It is a common practice not to lay a primer on a full chip. Not a good practice.
Did he lay a primer?

This may be the issue.


Gene: glad you were able to lift that rock...
In my experience installers will skip the primer coat, making it a common practice. Not the correct practice.

I have not waivered in my belief that a primer is the proper method to apply any coating system.

 

[dcs Inc]

Thanks for the clarification. Our epoxies are self priming but it is (to me) a reckless toss of the coin to not use one.

 

[RivennHewn]

I would call a product rep from the supplier, and let them know how it was installed, with all your pictures.

Get as detailed as you can with your description.

Have them give you recommendations on how to proceed.

 

[chillaxing]

I keep going back a reading the comments on this thread. 99% of all failures are caused by installer error, not product faults. Of course it could be the wrong product but that still is installer error for choosing that particular product to begin with.

Thanks for the info. I did not see the primer coat applied. He did not mention a moisture test, so I doubt if it was conducted. The contractor has returned all my calls and he did return to try to correct it. I don't know to let it be as is, leaving the small bubbles under the paint chips or have it sanded and try it for the third time.
Meanwhile I have already order my cabinets and slate boards for the walls. I will continue on with other projects.