Hello: I have heavy duty fairy lights hung on heavy duty wire (the right way to mount Fairy Lights). The wire is then looped through a ring and then continues to other points in the backyard. (starts and finishes at the garage). Garage to house, to tall pole mounted on fence and then back to other side of garage. Fairly heavy, but made worse as grape vine grew along the wire, and grapes got bigger. Lag bolt anchor to house pulled out (1/2 inch hole). Too much traction obviously. Any suggestions for much stronger way to fasten into house brick wall mortar joint? I'll attach some pictures. Wife upset, many broken lights, Grape Vine on her patio. Gotta get this fixed pronto. Yes, it is raining..
Concrete Fastener Pulled Out
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wssix99
Well-known member
The hole and lag shield should be fine. For a 1/2" hole, you should have a 5/16" lag screw.
It looks like the screw eye you were using is too small. Probably a 1/4"...
It looks like the screw eye you were using is too small. Probably a 1/4"...
Musicinabottle
Banned
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- Jul 24, 2016
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Is that wood above the masonry? I'd bore a deeper hole and get a longer sleeve for better traction, but I can see the weak link being the brick yarfing out of the wall next and injuring someone. Maybe a couple 5 inch in diameter steel poles sunk in the ground to support the mid span of the lights? Kind of like they do in huge stores like Walmart to support the roof span? 
Any advantage to using a different lag shield? I can definitely use a longer one. But the problem was not the strength of the lag screw but that the lag shield just pulled right out. Are any lag shields made more aggressively to resist traction? The lag shield I had used said "1/2 hole" and 1/4 L. Got it at ACE Hardware. Seems like aluminum or maybe zinc plated.
SteveW1000
Active member
Mortar joint is probably the weakest point to fix to. Want to fix into brick at least one if not two courses from the top of the wall. Other way would be a vertical plate screwed into two different bricks with an eye on the plate for the wire.
wssix99
Well-known member
The hole can be in the best place and a mile long, but if the screw is still too small; it will still pull out...
rustyjames
Well-known member
It looks to me that the eye bolt should have been longer.
Marctrees
Well-known member
So, even if the garage wall is finished inside, hole saw an access hole and throughbolt w backup large washer against inside of wall sheathing and longgg eyebolt.
Or something similar... idea is THROUGH bolt, NOT rely on anchor in masonry - Very poor pullout resistance.
Marc
Or something similar... idea is THROUGH bolt, NOT rely on anchor in masonry - Very poor pullout resistance.
Marc
Marctrees
Well-known member
Could we please call it what it is - an "Eye Screw" ?
Would be a good thing.
Marc
Would be a good thing.
Marc
Jinks
Well-known member
The bolt has to be big enough to SPREAD the anchor! Since you've reamed the hole by pulling the anchor out insert a shim (plastic anchor cut in half, wood shim, etc.), hammer the anchor back in, & put a BIG bolt in it.
threaded portion was definatley too short to expand the shield properly
rburke65
Well-known member
The “eye screw”.....take a pill Marc.....appears too small. I’m sure your local box store has a matched set if th3 hole hasn’t be3n compromised.
Marctrees
Well-known member
In the photo of the brick wall w the EMT 90 - The **** joint of the boards above the anchor hole - Is there a framing member behind that you could screw a longer screw eye into ?
Marc
Marc
jeepinerdeep
Well-known member
I'm in the "eye looks pretty small, are you sure it's big enough for the shield" camp.
Toolfool
Well-known member
Those lights weren't designed to support the weight of grape vines. The wires themselves will eventually fail.
Marctrees
Well-known member
matt_i
Well-known member
The epoxy is your friend. Proper prep is key. Blow out the hole with compressed air.
Gun the epoxy and twist the eye around many times to spread it all over.
Then let it cure 24 hrs before you put the load back on it.
I like Sika AnchorFix-2, comes in a caulk tube with a special mixer nozzle. I bought it at Home D. Unfortunately in your case there will be a lot of waste of the extra product you can't use. But for ~$20 you have a good permanent solution.
Gun the epoxy and twist the eye around many times to spread it all over.
Then let it cure 24 hrs before you put the load back on it.
I like Sika AnchorFix-2, comes in a caulk tube with a special mixer nozzle. I bought it at Home D. Unfortunately in your case there will be a lot of waste of the extra product you can't use. But for ~$20 you have a good permanent solution.
Use some HILTI HIT-HY 20 epoxy. Designed for brick.
You need to removed the wire from the support too. In your one pic you can see the wire in the caribbeaner and its kinking.
Both the wire and cable is attached to the eye screw, and it appears the wire is taking the load, based on the kink. It should be tied to the cable, then the cable connected to the eye screw.
grrr, lost my previous attempted post Take #2.
You have the right general idea of how to hang your light string, just not quite the right details.
#1 - Brick and mortar are NOT structural, especially for a pull-out load situation. Once you get past a 'small' item attached to the brick (house number plaque, small flagpole bracket, that sort of thing), you really should anchor to the actual structure (the 2x lumber that is behind the brick 'siding').
#2 - Your lag-screw eye bolt looks like it is about 1/4" in shank diameter or so. Too small for the task, especially once the grape vines used your messenger cable as a trellis to grow on.
See here for a table of working loads for some FORGED closed-eye machine threaded (not lag screw threaded) eye bolts:
https://www.boltdepot.com/fastener-information/Eye-Bolts/Machinery-Eye-Bolt-Working-Load-Limits.aspx
When the load/force pulling on an eye bolt is no longer perfectly in-line with the screw shank, you really are supposed to use an eye bolt with a shoulder.
I know, this is not a 'critical' lifting situation (except to your wife, who is now upset about the broken and fallen light string). But IMNSHO, you really should just DoItRight and not do it Almost-Right.
And here, like most household projects, some level is overkill is usually a good thing. This thing doesn't have to fly or race, so make it at least a little bit 'stronger' than needed.
Use a bigger shank diameter closed-end eye bolt, anchored to the actual building structure (and not the brick/mortar 'siding').
Oh, and as mentioned, your electrical cable of the light set shouldn't have any 'kink' or pull on it. Support the cable with the messenger cable and don't have the electrical cable go through the carabineer.
You have the right general idea of how to hang your light string, just not quite the right details.
#1 - Brick and mortar are NOT structural, especially for a pull-out load situation. Once you get past a 'small' item attached to the brick (house number plaque, small flagpole bracket, that sort of thing), you really should anchor to the actual structure (the 2x lumber that is behind the brick 'siding').
#2 - Your lag-screw eye bolt looks like it is about 1/4" in shank diameter or so. Too small for the task, especially once the grape vines used your messenger cable as a trellis to grow on.
See here for a table of working loads for some FORGED closed-eye machine threaded (not lag screw threaded) eye bolts:
https://www.boltdepot.com/fastener-information/Eye-Bolts/Machinery-Eye-Bolt-Working-Load-Limits.aspx
When the load/force pulling on an eye bolt is no longer perfectly in-line with the screw shank, you really are supposed to use an eye bolt with a shoulder.
I know, this is not a 'critical' lifting situation (except to your wife, who is now upset about the broken and fallen light string). But IMNSHO, you really should just DoItRight and not do it Almost-Right.
And here, like most household projects, some level is overkill is usually a good thing. This thing doesn't have to fly or race, so make it at least a little bit 'stronger' than needed.
Use a bigger shank diameter closed-end eye bolt, anchored to the actual building structure (and not the brick/mortar 'siding').
Oh, and as mentioned, your electrical cable of the light set shouldn't have any 'kink' or pull on it. Support the cable with the messenger cable and don't have the electrical cable go through the carabineer.
Thanks everybody.
1. The wall that the lag shield pulled out from is my house. Brick then cinderblock and then drywall in the family room. No practical way to run a bolt through all that, and cut and repair drywall. I'm an amateur.
2. The long wood element you see above the empty lag sleeve hole is just there (I think) so that the gutter can attach. It is maybe 3/8 inch, not gonna hold anything. Don't know why they made it so tall.
3. Turns out I did not know which end of a lag sleeve goes in first -- I had it backwards. That combined with a lag screw too short likely diminished traction resistance.
Sooo..
I decided to replace with 2 larger lag sleeves/screws. Figure instead of 1 taking the pull of the cable, black light wire, and grape vine from 2 directions, I'll cut the cable and have 2 separate runs.
I used 3/8" lag screws with 5/8" (long) lag sleeves. Had to enlarge the 1/2 inch hole to 5/8". I did squirt some 2 part anchoring adhesive into the holes before I tapped in the new sleeves. (May be a problem if I ever want to remove those 3/8 lag screws)
Right now gotta wait 24hours for it to cure before I hang the cable. I will no longer attach the black light wire to the hook, since you are correct it was getting pinched and unnecessarily carrying some of its own weight at that pinch point. So I now have time to shop vac the tremendous amount of tiny broken glass pieces on the patio.
1 picture shows the old lag sleeve next to the larger new sleeve and screw. Tomorrow I'll take some more when I've got it all back together.
1. The wall that the lag shield pulled out from is my house. Brick then cinderblock and then drywall in the family room. No practical way to run a bolt through all that, and cut and repair drywall. I'm an amateur.
2. The long wood element you see above the empty lag sleeve hole is just there (I think) so that the gutter can attach. It is maybe 3/8 inch, not gonna hold anything. Don't know why they made it so tall.
3. Turns out I did not know which end of a lag sleeve goes in first -- I had it backwards. That combined with a lag screw too short likely diminished traction resistance.
Sooo..
I decided to replace with 2 larger lag sleeves/screws. Figure instead of 1 taking the pull of the cable, black light wire, and grape vine from 2 directions, I'll cut the cable and have 2 separate runs.
I used 3/8" lag screws with 5/8" (long) lag sleeves. Had to enlarge the 1/2 inch hole to 5/8". I did squirt some 2 part anchoring adhesive into the holes before I tapped in the new sleeves. (May be a problem if I ever want to remove those 3/8 lag screws)
Right now gotta wait 24hours for it to cure before I hang the cable. I will no longer attach the black light wire to the hook, since you are correct it was getting pinched and unnecessarily carrying some of its own weight at that pinch point. So I now have time to shop vac the tremendous amount of tiny broken glass pieces on the patio.
1 picture shows the old lag sleeve next to the larger new sleeve and screw. Tomorrow I'll take some more when I've got it all back together.
Attachments
Marctrees
Well-known member
Things are getting better, but you still have the limited strength of the brick wall against straight out pullout.. if you do not transfer the stress to framing.
May work out for you.. time will tell.
In meantime, watch for flying bricks, and keep the vac handy.
Marc
May work out for you.. time will tell.
In meantime, watch for flying bricks, and keep the vac handy.
Marc
Marctrees
Well-known member
Just re read your last post - If you have "Cinder block" behind the brick, you could get by doing pretty much exactly what you are doing, but figure out a way to epoxy the shield in the BLOCK, rather than brick.
That would be acceptable.
Anyway, too late now, you may be ok.
Marc
That would be acceptable.
Anyway, too late now, you may be ok.
Marc
GrayFlattop
Well-known member
Is the garage finished on the inside? If not, I would use a through-bolt - using threaded rod and a plaster washer on the inside. OR you can scab in a piece of 2 x 4 blocking between two studs (but oriented flat against the inside (of the outside wall). That will give you a better fastening point than any masonry anchor - with or without epoxy.
rburke65
Well-known member
It’s the constant weight being exerted on the lag and the wire swaying.....has to be a lot more beefy than ya think
Vintage Veloce
Well-known member
If you want something stronger:
Fasten a section of 2x4 to the wall (maybe 14" long), with a bunch of lag screws and sleeves, and then put a large screw eye in the 2x4. The 2x4 will distribute the load to the array of screws to the wall.
PS: After reading the news posted below... I do like the through hole with a bolt better. One nicely painted bolt head wouldn't look so bad...
Fasten a section of 2x4 to the wall (maybe 14" long), with a bunch of lag screws and sleeves, and then put a large screw eye in the 2x4. The 2x4 will distribute the load to the array of screws to the wall.
PS: After reading the news posted below... I do like the through hole with a bolt better. One nicely painted bolt head wouldn't look so bad...
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Marctrees
Well-known member
"Local Man hit in head by Flying Brick, then strangled by Grapevine ... News at 5:00 "
"A local Man was killed by a flying brick during a family BBQ at his home.
One first responder, said to be a GJ regular, told this reporter "We all warned him, but he chose to have a brick hit him over the head rather than slightly marring the inside of his Family Room.
His surviving Wife told me that "I would rather have a beautiful Designer accepted wall in my Family room and a dead husband with a damaged head, than an unsightly sore that my Friends would have to look at."
Continuing, the Surviving Wife added "The worst part is now I need to spend the weekend vacuuming the glass, and then find a local handyman to re hang my Fairy lights"
Memorials are asked to the GJ Forum... to assist in their continuing education of ""DIY'rs""
Marc
"A local Man was killed by a flying brick during a family BBQ at his home.
One first responder, said to be a GJ regular, told this reporter "We all warned him, but he chose to have a brick hit him over the head rather than slightly marring the inside of his Family Room.
His surviving Wife told me that "I would rather have a beautiful Designer accepted wall in my Family room and a dead husband with a damaged head, than an unsightly sore that my Friends would have to look at."
Continuing, the Surviving Wife added "The worst part is now I need to spend the weekend vacuuming the glass, and then find a local handyman to re hang my Fairy lights"
Memorials are asked to the GJ Forum... to assist in their continuing education of ""DIY'rs""
Marc
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Strouty
Well-known member
You could drill through the brick and into the cinderblock, then put a toggle bolt, that would hold things very well. Unless the cinderblock is filled. Either way, it would probably be a lot safer to drill into the cinderblock and use a longer eye/lag bolt so that you are not trying to rip the brick facade off the real wall.
wssix99
Well-known member
+1
Snap toggles work great for this situation. Just drill through the first wall of cinder block and stop there.
If built properly, the CMU wall inside should have a fully grouted bond beam at the top. The Hilti HIT-HY 150 with a 0.5" threaded rod 4" into the CMU grouted bond beam should give you about 5000lbs capacity if installed correctly.
Might look into this when the brick is pulled off and you can see the CMU.
Might look into this when the brick is pulled off and you can see the CMU.
LS6 Tommy
Well-known member
Or even "Lag Screw Eye"...
I'm on board with the line of thought that the eye shank was too small for the anchor, too.
Tommy
6768rogues
Banned
What the hell is a fairy light? The opposite of a heavy leprechaun?
It's already been mentioned, so one more time...you should be anchoring to structure. The brick on your house is a fascade, not structure (that's why the concrete block was put there). You should be equating the brick to vinyl siding for these purposes. So failure is a question of when, not if. The concrete block behind it is structure and you can epoxy a threaded anchor into the block and screw your fastener into the anchor. Lot's of options to do this, yes, you'll waste a lot of product for one fastener, but who cares as long as you or your family aren't picking glass out of your heads?