Concrete Help!

[ffjosh]

I have been asking a ton of questions lately but I finally put a down payment on a 24x30 Olympia Steel Building.

Since Im on a budget and I like trying everything my self I want to do the concrete as well.

I need to make footers for each column. By code it needs to be 36 inches deep and 18 inch round. (or 12 inch square)

From my research I am going to use 18 inch tubes.

What I can not find is how much and how to install the rebar into the column

Also I can not find the correct bolts. I would assume you can get these at lowes, home depot ect.

 

[IHI]

I have been asking a ton of questions lately but I finally put a down payment on a 24x30 Olympia Steel Building.

Since Im on a budget and I like trying everything my self I want to do the concrete as well.

I need to make footers for each column. By code it needs to be 36 inches deep and 18 inch round. (or 12 inch square)

From my research I am going to use 18 inch tubes.

What I can not find is how much and how to install the rebar into the column

Also I can not find the correct bolts. I would assume you can get these at lowes, home depot ect.

Think about the wire thingey's that go around tomatoe plants, only instead of being tapered, they're the same diameter all the way down. Hoops of rebar tied to vertical pieces and lowered into the tubes prior pouring the mud.

18" tubes will be special order through a home center, and possibly stocked a a local concrete supply company that sells everything related to concrete..forms/saws/trowels/stamps, etc....

As for bolts, some sort of j bolt...your going to have to find out what the manufacturer recommends, 1/2", 5/8", 3/4" and the can also recommend how deep they should be buried in the concrete for maximum strength.

 

[ffjosh]

Think about the wire thingey's that go around tomatoe plants, only instead of being tapered, they're the same diameter all the way down. Hoops of rebar tied to vertical pieces and lowered into the tubes prior pouring the mud.

18" tubes will be special order through a home center, and possibly stocked a a local concrete supply company that sells everything related to concrete..forms/saws/trowels/stamps, etc....

As for bolts, some sort of j bolt...your going to have to find out what the manufacturer recommends, 1/2", 5/8", 3/4" and the can also recommend how deep they should be buried in the concrete for maximum strength.

I found some 18" x 12' tubes online for $70 a piece which I did not think was too bad.

After adding up a lot of the stuff im thinking I wont be saving as much as Im thinking.

 

[ffjosh]

what if I use concrete with fibers in it? Assuming I do not need rebar then

 

[Riverside]

The engineer-designed footings I have dealt with (not for metal buildings) typically have a hoop of #4 rebar every 6-8" horizontally and four vertical pieces of #5 rebar running top-to-bottom connecting the hoops. The rebar should be 3" in from the surfaces of the concrete. There is usually an extra hoop 2" down from the top hoop. For the bolts, you probably want to use a graded bolt, such as A307. I would expect that Olympia would provide you with some specifications.

 

[ffjosh]

The engineer-designed footings I have dealt with (not for metal buildings) typically have a hoop of #4 rebar every 6-8" horizontally and four vertical pieces of #5 rebar running top-to-bottom connecting the hoops. The rebar should be 3" in from the surfaces of the concrete. There is usually an extra hoop 2" down from the top hoop. For the bolts, you probably want to use a graded bolt, such as A307. I would expect that Olympia would provide you with some specifications.

I called them and he didn't want to give me awnser on the bolts yet but will get back with me. He said most code books stat what you have to use. So in reality im just going to use the strongest biggest bolt I can

So whats your opinion on fiber vs rebar? Is fiber only used for floors?

 

[Riverside]

what if I use concrete with fibers in it? Assuming I do not need rebar then

If that were the case, I don't think anyone would bother with rebar. You should definitely see what Olympia has to say about footings.

 

[ffjosh]

If that were the case, I don't think anyone would bother with rebar. You should definitely see what Olympia has to say about footings.

There minimal footing size is almost scary.

Has to be 6 inches wide and 12 inches deep. Thats it!!!!

Per code I have to go 36 inches deep and 12 inches wide.

 

[T-Mac]

in my construction drawings the anchor bolt size was specified but foundation design and recomendation was always"by others"

 

[Jackfre]

The foundation isn't the place to economize. The fiber concrete MAY be okay, but I KNOW the re-bar and concrete is. You don't have to make hoops with number 4 bar. You can cut it into pieces and make squares and simply tie-wire them together hanging the whole assembly off the top of the sono-tube. The well supported sono-tube that is.

 

[T-Mac]

Plus fiber does not replace rebar as a structural reinforcement-i went through everything you are going through now-piers need a minimum diameter so your anchor bolts dont blow out the sides when you tighten them-need to know footprint of columns for that-everything will be spelled out in your construction drawings

 

[readhead]

Footings for metal buildings are not the same as putting a post in the ground. You are bearing a lot of weight on a single point. I don't know where you are and without going into a lot of engineering my best estimate based on building a lot of similar size buildings would be either a 24" square pier or a 26" round pier. At 30' long there should be only one rigid frame. The corners and endwall columns can get by with a 16" round. Most metal building companys will not specify footings because they don't know your conditions. The bolt plan will call out the bolt diameter but not the length. We would use 16" bolts. I would strongly suggest that you at least pour a perimiter footing so you will have somewhere to end your siding and have something for the doors to attach to and close against. Later you will have a form to pour the floor against.
All this being said, I would urge you to consult an engineer for the foundation design so there is no guessing. My comments are based on several years of experiance but we always have the foundations designed. We haven't even talked about rebar and concrete mix design.

 

[T-Mac]

footings for metal buildings are not the same as putting a post in the ground. You are bearing a lot of weight on a single point. I don't know where you are and without going into a lot of engineering my best estimate based on building a lot of similar size buildings would be either a 24" square pier or a 26" round pier. At 30' long there should be only one rigid frame. The corners and endwall columns can get by with a 16" round. Most metal building companys will not specify footings because they don't know your conditions. The bolt plan will call out the bolt diameter but not the length. We would use 16" bolts. I would strongly suggest that you at least pour a perimiter footing so you will have somewhere to end your siding and have something for the doors to attach to and close against. Later you will have a form to pour the floor against.
All this being said, i would urge you to consult an engineer for the foundation design so there is no guessing. My comments are based on several years of experiance but we always have the foundations designed. We haven't even talked about rebar and concrete mix design.

agreed!

 

[T-Mac]

If you want to do it yourself you have to start with your soil bearing strength-usually specified in psf-weight of building+max snow load weight-over estimate this-calculate square footage of all column bases-with that info you can estimate the size of pier you need based on soil bearing strength and actual estimated max weight pushing down on it-i dont know if your in an area prone to tornados or hurricanes but thats a different story altogether

 

[ffjosh]

Thanks for all the help! Guess Im trying to plan before I get the engineering plans.

Looks like I will wait for them before proceeding.

I live near Fort Wayne Indiana.

My goal was to pour the footers for the beams and then pour a slab later.

Maybe it would be better to wait for the engineering plans and have someone look over it and see what I should do for footers.

Then maybe do the slab my self.

 

[T-Mac]

like i said,i was in your shoes-after i ordered my building i felt like i just had to do something productive but you will have to wait for the drawings.Permit drawings will come first but my permit drawings were identical to construction drawings.have fun and enjoy your build

 

[ffjosh]

like i said,i was in your shoes-after i ordered my building i felt like i just had to do something productive but you will have to wait for the drawings.Permit drawings will come first but my permit drawings were identical to construction drawings.have fun and enjoy your build

Im going in this week to sign the permits.

Thanks, guess your right, im feeling lazy and no productive

 

[T-Mac]

if your putting up the building yourself,sit back and enjoy the calm before the storm.plenty of productive time to come!

 

[T-Mac]

B.T.W.-brush up on your pythagorean theorem

 

[ffjosh]

B.T.W.-brush up on your pythagorean theorem

Haha, if I do the concrete my self I will diffidently be having another set if not two more sets of eyes helping out.

My first Kid is coming in sept so I am feeling rushed

 

[ffjosh]

BTW how where the blue prints/instructions with your building?

 

[T-Mac]

a bit confusing at times until you actually get the parts in your hands-brackets braces and bolts,then it clears up- bolts and screws omg thousands of bolts and screws

 

[ffjosh]

a bit confusing at times until you actually get the parts in your hands-brackets braces and bolts,then it clears up- bolts and screws omg thousands of bolts and screws

I was trying to find some good articles of people putting one up but no luck.

I did however find a youtube video and it looked like there was a crate just for botls, screws nuts ect

 

[T-Mac]

yep a pallet of nuts bolts screws of numerous colors and lengths+weatherstrip.
heres a sample of the assembly instructions but everything is well marked and identified

 

[readhead]

The plans will come with reactions for the building which an engineer would use to design the foundation.
How are you getting permits without plans?
The plans can be very confusing for a layman. If you study them for awhile you will start to see some patterns. Check in all the parts and I mean all the parts. Go through the hardware box and count everything. Don't let the driver go untill you know you have everything. Trust me. It is easier to make a claim for missing parts when you can mark the bill of lading from the trucking company. In 11 years I have only recieved two complete buildings. You want to make a claim as soon as possible so the parts are not holding you up.
Have a forklift there to unload and then use it to put up the building.

 

[iride47]

I am in the process of erecting an Olympia steel building right now. It is 30x50x12. I have all the framing done and should be on target to start sheeting next week. I went throught the same thing that you did. My inspector finally told me that I had to have foundation plans drawn up by a local engineer. Cost 400 bucks. I put in a monolithic slab and the "piers" for the columns had to be 36wx36wx18"deep. I am in Chattanooga TN so our frostline requirements are only 18" compared to your location. I still have the plans where it shows all the rebar requirements. I will try to scan it just to give you an idea of what you may be up against. I can take some pics of the building also if you have any questions. Although it was a pain,the building went together fairly easy once we figured out what we were doing.

 

[ffjosh]

The plans will come with reactions for the building which an engineer would use to design the foundation.
How are you getting permits without plans?
The plans can be very confusing for a layman. If you study them for awhile you will start to see some patterns. Check in all the parts and I mean all the parts. Go through the hardware box and count everything. Don't let the driver go untill you know you have everything. Trust me. It is easier to make a claim for missing parts when you can mark the bill of lading from the trucking company. In 11 years I have only recieved two complete buildings. You want to make a claim as soon as possible so the parts are not holding you up.
Have a forklift there to unload and then use it to put up the building.

My code do sent care about the building just the location and cement

 

[ffjosh]

yep a pallet of nuts bolts screws of numerous colors and lengths+weatherstrip.
heres a sample of the assembly instructions but everything is well marked and identified

Thanks!¡!

 

[ffjosh]

I am in the process of erecting an Olympia steel building right now. It is 30x50x12. I have all the framing done and should be on target to start sheeting next week. I went throught the same thing that you did. My inspector finally told me that I had to have foundation plans drawn up by a local engineer. Cost 400 bucks. I put in a monolithic slab and the "piers" for the columns had to be 36wx36wx18"deep. I am in Chattanooga TN so our frostline requirements are only 18" compared to your location. I still have the plans where it shows all the rebar requirements. I will try to scan it just to give you an idea of what you may be up against. I can take some pics of the building also if you have any questions. Although it was a pain,the building went together fairly easy once we figured out what we were doing.

That would be awesome

 

[ffjosh]

Did you have to unload the trailer or did the semi driver have a fork lift in the truck?

 

[T-Mac]

i had to unload-luckily my father has a backhoe with fork attachment-some of the material is very heavy because its banded together-sheeting was almost 1400 lbs by itself

 

[iride47]

Still working on getting these plans scanned. I had to unload also. The driver pretty much just sits in the truck until you are done. I had a tractor with forks to unload it. The tractor will only pick up 1000 lbs. I had to break the band on the purlins and take pick up only half of the load in order to get it off the truck. Same with the sheeting. Be very careful while checking the packing list. My building was not missing anything but the driver told me that the other building that was dropped off first from the same load was missing quite a bit and if you do not document it on the packing list and have the driver sign they will not cover it. It took us a few hours to unload everything.

 

[readhead]

Rent a 6,000 lb Skytrak with some nylon straps for a week. It will be the best money you will spend. You need it to unload the truck and then use it to put up the building. You can assemble the whole end wall on the floor and then stand it up. Put the two main columns up then bolt the main rafters together and set them and then build the other end wall.

 

[bobscogin]

what if I use concrete with fibers in it? Assuming I do not need rebar then

I'm assuming you're talking about synthetic fiber such as polypropylene. Despite what you've probably heard, that's not correct. Fiber is a secondary reinforcement not intended to replace steel as a primary reinforcement. Steel fibers are available than can be used, but that will ed up costing more than conventional steel.

Bob

 

[ffjosh]

Still working on getting these plans scanned. I had to unload also. The driver pretty much just sits in the truck until you are done. I had a tractor with forks to unload it. The tractor will only pick up 1000 lbs. I had to break the band on the purlins and take pick up only half of the load in order to get it off the truck. Same with the sheeting. Be very careful while checking the packing list. My building was not missing anything but the driver told me that the other building that was dropped off first from the same load was missing quite a bit and if you do not document it on the packing list and have the driver sign they will not cover it. It took us a few hours to unload everything.

Goodie guess I'll have to see if I can use my biddies bobcat with forks


NP on the prints thanks!!!

 

[ffjosh]

so I am for sure farming out the concrete work.

Back to the building.

Do you have to have something to pick up the wall? From what little documentation I have saw people just build it in steps.

Im assuming a couple people can hand carry most the parts.

 

[ffjosh]

Also why did it take so long to unload?

I was debating on having the truck come to my work (big parking lot with forklifts) so I could unload it easier.

While my work won't mind, they will mind if it takes me 3 hours to unload.

 

[readhead]

Depends on the size of the forklift. If you have a small machine it will take more lifts. With a 6K lift for that size building it would be about an hour.
Just curious. If you unload at work how will you get it to the site?
Yes you can do it in steps but it is a lot easier to bolt everything up on the ground and then lift one piece.

 

[ffjosh]

Depends on the size of the forklift. If you have a small machine it will take more lifts. With a 6K lift for that size building it would be about an hour.
Just curious. If you unload at work how will you get it to the site?
Yes you can do it in steps but it is a lot easier to bolt everything up on the ground and then lift one piece.

I have a car trailer I can haul everything home with. Put 3-4K of parts on the trailer every day and haul it home.

However my friend has a bobcat with Forks he said we could use. Im sure that will work just fine.

 

[readhead]

This is a small load and it may be on top of another load. Make sure the Bobcat can go high enough and still have enough capacity. It would not be unusual to be lifting at 12'.