Hello, is it ok to pour concrete over ground posts (for a house)? I have one ground post (that is wired to the panel) that sticks up about 3 inches from ground surface level and I plan to keep it that way. But the ground wire then runs to a second ground post about 6 feet away. This second ground post is below ground level and I discovered it as I was creating the form for the concrete. Can I cover this SECOND ground post with concrete? I plan to keep the first ground post visible above ground level.
Concrete over ground post
- Thread starter mick6701
- Start date
sparky 1971
Well-known member
You can pour concrete over them. The rod that is sticking up should be pounded below grade as well as the wire between them buried.
alfredeneuman
Well-known member
If the rod is 10' instead of a standard 8' it can stick up.
Ground rods are only required to be driven to a depth of 8'
(Not a likely scenario though)
Zeke
Well-known member
I would place cans over the rods even if the can is skimmed over.
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Good point. Pull them and measure
nadogail
Well-known member
I am sure that the ground rod and conductor need to be available for inspection, if you want to pour concrete leave an access opening.Good point. Pull them and measure
sparky 1971
Well-known member
Not for future inspections. I put them below grade then put a piece of scrap PVC over them for the one and only inspection. As soon as the inspector looks down the pipe and sees the rod, the PVC gets pulled and the rod is covered for what could be forever. Leaving a little bit exposed is a trip hazzard and could wreak havoc on a lawnmower blade. I've probably planted 100's of ground rods that have been covered by driveways and sidewalks over the years. One concrete building, I didn't want to drill a hole through the wall so I put it the rods inside before the slab was poured with the ok from the AHJ to take pictures of them to show him for the service inspection.
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Zeke
Well-known member
Nothing lasts forever when copper, brass, moisture and pH are all present. I want to see it periodically.
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
You are an outlier.
Also, how do you inspect the underground portion of the grounding system
Zeke
Well-known member
With a meter?
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Why would it need to be exposed for that?
You have the equipment to measure the resistance of an earth ground? That's not done with a DMM and isn't something most people have
I really don't think this is something that needs to be worried about, but to each their own.
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BreeStephany
ALLIANCE MEMBER
As others have stated, once you pass your service inspection, you can cover the ground rods with earth and then cover with finish material, whether that be with concrete, asphalt, lawn, landscaping rock, etc.
I like pounding rods at least 4~6" below bottom of concrete / asphalt and covering with sand, then compacting and covering. If your ground wire comes up through concrete, sleeve it from below concrete, through concrete and up with a 1/2" or 3/4" piece of PVC (assuming its a #6 GEC) to the main disconnect to protect the GEC from damage.
Also, when in doubt, consult your AHJ / local inspector, as ultimately, they have the final say on whether you CAN or CANNOT do something a particular way most of the time.
Just my two cents.
I like pounding rods at least 4~6" below bottom of concrete / asphalt and covering with sand, then compacting and covering. If your ground wire comes up through concrete, sleeve it from below concrete, through concrete and up with a 1/2" or 3/4" piece of PVC (assuming its a #6 GEC) to the main disconnect to protect the GEC from damage.
Also, when in doubt, consult your AHJ / local inspector, as ultimately, they have the final say on whether you CAN or CANNOT do something a particular way most of the time.
Just my two cents.
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
It would have to be a specific meter and the rods dont need to be exposed to do such a test.
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
Nope
Not required by code and unless you have an open building permit, an inspector wont be coming out to inspect anything
Zeke
Well-known member
Good to know.
I have doubted buying of ground rods for a long time. As you can see, I live in Long Beach CA, L.A County. Now I don't know what inspectors here want other than to see the EGC from panel bond to water and gas supply (if applicable). So we've never buried one below grade on old work. New construction I seem to remember that the ground rod was placed inside the concrete forms and left high so that the electrician can put the bond clamp on while roughing in. IIRC, the lathers went around a plaster ring placed on a nearby stud. Eventually a blank plate was put on that.
I haven't been around new construction much for quite some time. Certainly not since 2 rods were required. So I can't speak for that. But on all service upgrades I have been even remotely involved with, the rods are left above grade. When I say 'remotely' I can look over my fence and see an upgrade to 200A service on an 85 YO house done 5 months ago and see the EGC to the water supply and 2 rods 6-7' apart, and one more armored cable going through the foundation vent which I assume bonds the gas line.
It's not pretty but I do remember listening to the inspector while he rejected the riser hub as not being waterproof enough. No kind of compression fitting would satisfy him and they had to put in a threaded hub and gasket. So it's tough here.
justsam
Well-known member
Certainly claim little knowledge on this topic however I did notice on my sister in laws newly constructed production home in Utah, there was a quad sized cover plate on the exterior of the house, near where all utilities come in. Removing the cover it revealed the connection point to the ufer ground rebar. I am sure with a production home they were not doing anything they were not required to do.
sparky 1971
Well-known member
The UFER clamp has to be accessible even though no-one is ever going to check it . The ground rod clamp does not since it's designed and intended to be buried.
Zeke
Well-known member
OK, since my new construction knowledge is limited, I must be talking about UFER grounds, not ground rods per se. I knew the term from my early days in construction going back into the 70's. But my electrical fu was not up to par then, nor is it anywhere near complete today.
I have been mainly involved with home improvement, which includes remodeling, and more specifically doors and windows. Probably the one thing I have done most is wire in new porch lights when making new door openings. But some kitchen and bathroom work as well. I worked for an electrician doing light commercial (tenant improvements) mainly AM PM type stores 30 years ago. I was a grunt but learned a lot about isolated grounds for the new (then) cash registers that didn't like all the noise on the lighting and equipment circuits.
But the service was already in.
I have been mainly involved with home improvement, which includes remodeling, and more specifically doors and windows. Probably the one thing I have done most is wire in new porch lights when making new door openings. But some kitchen and bathroom work as well. I worked for an electrician doing light commercial (tenant improvements) mainly AM PM type stores 30 years ago. I was a grunt but learned a lot about isolated grounds for the new (then) cash registers that didn't like all the noise on the lighting and equipment circuits.
But the service was already in.
Miss the Pontiacs
Well-known member
I pulled a ground rod once when moving a building, figuring I might reuse it. The end was tapered down to a point so sharp I doubted it could have been done mechanically unless you had a lathe.
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
sounds like a UFER electrode but it wouldnt be a ground rod....
2 rods have been required for a long time.... unless 25ohms or less to earth is proven... or UFER is used which then means no rods are required.... if the rods are longer than 8' then they can be left above grade
that wouldnt be an EGC which is an equipment grounding conductor.... if its to rods or electrodes then its a GEC- grounding electrode conductor... if its to water or gas or other metal plumbing for bonding, then its just a bond wire...
alfredeneuman
Well-known member
Additionally the test meter needed is super expensive
https://www.fluke.com/en-us/product/electrical-testing/earth-ground/fluke-1630-2-fc
You can buy and drive a lot of ground rods for the price of a tester, and probably will end up driving a second rod anyway when it fails the test with a single rod.
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kaffine
Well-known member
You are pouring concrete can you put in a UFER ground? In that case I would leave the rods in place since they are there but tie in the UFER ground.
sparky 1971
Well-known member
The UFER goes to the rebar in the footing, not a slab.
Ufer ground electrical code requirements
Ufer is required to be 20 ft. long minimum and it shall be one continues piece, or if in multiple pieces, use a rebar tie wires or exothermic welding to achieve the 20 ft length and it shall be covered with a minimum of 2 inches of concrete.
The Ufer (concrete-encased electrode) required to consist of one of the following according to NEC section 250.52 (A)(3) (1)(2),
- A minimum of No. 4 rebar (half inch diameter).
- Bare copper conductor not smaller than 4 AWG.
Before pouring footings for a new house or an addition, You should spot the location of the electrical panel and add a minimum #4 rebar, 20 feet long in the footings. #4 Rebar is sufficient for 100 and 200 amps Panel.
Zeke
Well-known member
@wyliesdiesels I guess then it was all 3 in one bird's nest.