Concrete Spalling 30 x 36 Detached Garage

[DTL504]

I hired a contractor pour this 30 x 36 slab and now the concrete have a serious case of spalling. I have only gave him the down payment and waiting until I am completly satisfied with the finish before I complete the payment.

This was done before Thanksgiving but seem to have gotten worse as time goes by. He want to scabbler the top coat and add a color layer of epoxy over the top.

What do you thing about adding epoxy over the top? Will it just be a bandaid or should I have the top complete scab and redone. I want a good surface that will withstand the abuse of working on cars and I dont need the floor to be peeling everytime its cold or when I jack a car on it.

Here is a few picture of what my detached garage floor look like.
http://s594.photobucket.com/albums/t...l504/Concrete/

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Same problem as Viper.
Wet concrete, over-troweled.

Leaves a weak cream cap.
I looked at one today that was coated as-is.

Peeling like a grape.

Need to grind off that cream cap, get back to strong base and coat with a SELF LEVELING epoxy coating (won't find this at Home Depot or even your average garage floor kit company).

Once the SL is down, you can coat with any coating you like, flake, poly-aspartic, etc...

Lastly, I am sorry to see you have the issue, once you get it coated and looking sharp, you'll put it behind you.

 

[ViperJon]

Good lord you would think after concrete being around for oh 2 billion years you could get a floor done right. Sorry to hear your problem, but your NOT alone.

 

[cowboyjosh]

If i were the builder id eat it, rip it out, repour, and make sure your happy. I wouldnt try to repair that new of a slab, it will never be right.

 

[DTL504]

I have not heard from him in 2 weeks. He did come by with the QA rep from the concrete company and she said everything will be ok. However, since we have been get some pretty cold weather and snow in N Carolina the floor has continue to spall during this period. This was before X-Mas, luckly I have only paid half down and the rest is suppose to be paid once everything is done. I just paid him to do the concrete then I was building the garage myself. Our last conversation was for me to start stick builting then he would come back with heaters in the garage and get epoxy down.

 

[Full Size 66]

Oh my, this type of thing makes me so nervous. I just got my permit approved and will go this week to get it. I will check and triple check to make sure we will not have this. What a nightmare. I would tell them to start over!

 

[David79z28]

Wow!! Hopefully they will make this right and the rest of the project will be trouble free. Good luck.

 

[Justanoldguy]

If i were the builder id eat it, rip it out, repour, and make sure your happy. I wouldnt try to repair that new of a slab, it will never be right.

Typically an over the top reaction that is totally unjustified.

 

[ViperJon]

If i were the builder id eat it, rip it out, repour, and make sure your happy. I wouldnt try to repair that new of a slab, it will never be right.

Not true. There are many options available to resurface assuming the slab itself is sound which it probably is.

 

[cowboyjosh]

Maybe my reaction is "over the top", Im a contractor, if its not right from the ground up, its getting ripped out and redone to my satisfaction BEFORE I bill my customer; again I WOULD eat the cost of rip and replace if it was my job. I personally wouldn't take my chances on that the slab is "sound", especially a garage slab, one that is likely to see vehicular traffic in the course of its life. THere would be no way in hell if I had a slab spalling from the moment is was poured that I would repair it, and expect a customer to watch me repair something so new and then him pay for it and then hope for the best going forward. Just my .02

 

[folgers]

Maybe my reaction is "over the top", Im a contractor, if its not right from the ground up, its getting ripped out and redone to my satisfaction BEFORE I bill my customer; again I WOULD eat the cost of rip and replace if it was my job.

I agree. The customer is paying for a sound concrete floor. If you look at his pictures, DTL504 has large areas that aren't sound. He'd be well within his rights to ask it be re-poured. There are going to be other areas of his floor that are weak even if the surface hasn't separated yet. If you have an old chunk of concrete you want to patch that's one thing, but I wouldn't start patching concrete that should have been finished right in the first place.

 

[Phil S.]

Looks like it froze. what was the low temp. for the first 5 or 10 days after it was poured?

 

[DTL504]

This floor is continuing to peel. Which lead me to think it may have a serious defewct in the cement because after peeling off the top layer I can scrape cement below into dust without grinding into it.

 

[DTL504]

Here is the temp from the day of the pour in NC.

22 Nov 2010
72° Lo 44°

23 Nov 2010
77° Lo 54°

24 Nov 2010
66° Lo 45°

25 Nov 2010
64° Lo 42°

26 Nov 2010
67° Lo 54°

27 Nov 2010
55° Lo 34°

28 Nov 2010
52° Lo 31°

29 Nov 2010
56° Lo 30°

30 Nov 2010
74° Lo 48°

 

[darkk]

Hire an independent company to come out to test and evaluate the slab before doing anything else. This way you will know whether to repair or replace...

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

The more I look at the pics, the more I suspect too much water, coupled with cool temps. It diluted the cream and once the water evaporated you were left with weakness.

The only thing a contractor can do is skim the water off a few times and run fans over it to speed up the evaporation. Constant troweling only makes it worse.

 

[GTViper]

Hire an independent company to come out to test and evaluate the slab before doing anything else. This way you will know whether to repair or replace...

Exactly. Why does everyone here freak out over spalling? On one of my car sites folks were ready to lynch a contractor. It is not great but it happens and can usually be fixed.

 

[41ratrod]

I'm not a contractor but have poured lots of concrete and that looks
like a bad batch of cement . call the concrete co. again and have them do a
core sample and see how it looks and do a compression test on .
Do you know what mix they used ?
Good luck. If they don't replace it grind the top off it and coat it with a industrial
type floor coating. I've put down a polyester vinylester type of coating on some rough
concrete with good luck.It's a three part system and you must put the primer
on first or it will pill up.
good luck

 

[ViperJon]

Exactly. Why does everyone here freak out over spalling? On one of my car sites folks were ready to lynch a contractor. It is not great but it happens and can usually be fixed.

LOL gotta be the VCA been there since 2004....

 

[DTL504]

Exactly. Why does everyone here freak out over spalling? On one of my car sites folks were ready to lynch a contractor. It is not great but it happens and can usually be fixed.

Should I expect to pay the same price for a not so great of a job? My expectation and details was laid out before he accepteed the job and took the 2k cash down payment. Also, patch work will have different shades of portland finish throughout the slab. Some may accept substandard workmanship but sorry I will not. Just Asking.

Basically what I have was the soupy mix that came in the yard was used to stretch with water instead of getting another yard of concrete. I did not see them add water but I vividly remember the guy thinking they might not have enough concrete.

Another question: He agreed to pour a the 30 x 36. However since I was putting a bathroom in the back corner he wanted another $175.00 to pour that 10 x 3 area. paid for pour of 1080sf, he only poured 1050sf, I bought 26 bags of quickcrete and finish that myself.

 

[GTViper]

No you should not accept it . I am just saying that it happens and when it does you should get some relief. In my own case my contractor not only had to fix it but put an epoxy covering over it. He also warranted it for 5 years.

 

[Justanoldguy]

but I vividly remember the guy thinking they might not have enough concrete.

I am struggling to visualize how you saw his thoughts...

 

[DTL504]

I am struggling to visualize how you saw his thoughts...

Correction:
I heard him state to the guy working the concrete he may not have enough and telling him to get away from the edge because it was soupy.

 

[DTL504]

No you should not accept it . I am just saying that it happens and when it does you should get some relief. In my own case my contractor not only had to fix it but put an epoxy covering over it. He also warranted it for 5 years.

What concern me is the fact that I can scrape sand underneath the spalling. I have a HD truck that will be on the floor and Pearson lift that will be used, so I need a good solid foundation.

 

[folgers]

What concern me is the fact that I can scrape sand underneath the spalling. I have a HD truck that will be on the floor and Pearson lift that will be used, so I need a good solid foundation.

One of the problems with pouring concrete too wet is that the portland, sand, and aggregate won't stay in suspension. They segregate out. When I looked at the photos you posted I didn't see any large aggregate under what had peeled off the top. What you have is a lot of the portland coming to the top, under that is the sand and the rock aggregate sinks to the bottom. I think if you have it tested you'll find it's not near the strength it should be.

 

[jkuro]

I don't know where you live but there is a cut off date where the concrete supplier wont warranty the mix due the 60-90 day cure time of the concrete and the cold temps. Call the supplier and check with them, I used to live in Ohio and it was sometime in October. You take a chance when pouring in cold temps.