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Condensation?

bucs012

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Aug 11, 2009
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307
This winter I am going to experiment with my heating of my 300sq foot shop/man cave.

Since our electric cost per kwh is only $0.0863 I am thinking about going with electrical heat. Something that will keep the space at 40 degrees most the time, but also can bump up to 60 degrees during the weekend if need be.

Info- 9' ceiling, insulated R36 ceiling and R13 in the walls, stick building and insulated door. I am located in Iowa so we do see temps below zero too.

Are there any specific (electrical heating) units out there that you guys would recommend for me? Also, to keep condensation low, would I just crack a window a little when I bump it up from 40 to 60?
Natural gas- not right now since JUST running the pipe from the house is going to cost about $1,000.
 
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Gary S

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Dec 27, 2008
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Bismarck, ND
Electric heat has no combustion, so condensation might not be a problem for you. Being well insulated, you are already controlling the water transfer through the walls.
Electric heaters are mostly created equal. They are all near 100% efficient, so whatever you have is probably good.
If you are buying a heater, look at the options. Radiant heaters cost more, but feel good when you are working in the path of the radiant heat. They don't help you at all if you are heating the garage to 40 degrees and leaving it unattended. Fan forced heaters help distribute the heat, but some models have noisy fans that you may not like.
 

redsky49

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Jan 21, 2009
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near the coast in eastern North Carolina
The likelihood of forming condensation on the interior surfaces of your garage are minimal, in most cases, if the garage is tightly sealed. However, if you are dealing with extreme weather conditions, or are generating elevated moisture levels in the garage, some condensation may be observed on poorly insulated surfaces such as window glass. Not the end of the world by any means.

What should be avoided is extended moisture condensing within the interior of walls as a result of poor insulation, poor sealing, missing vapor barrier, etc. Given the winter design temps of Iowa, I would have preferred to see a better wall insulation, but you should still be able to successfully heat your garage. If you see water pouring down the windows you should lower the interior temperature and/or reduce the interior moisture levels, and investigate if you have any large sources of infiltration.

Bear in mind that electric resistance heat has the same heat output regardless of configuration. The only more efficient unit is a heat pump, especially earth-coupled units for your area, which would make sense if you ever required air conditioning of the space. Since you make no mention of that I will assume that you are only in need of heating.

For electric heat there are several possibilities: Radiant panels or heaters, baseboard radiation (convection heaters), or fan-forced heaters.

Radiant panels are the typical choice for high-ceiling areas where you are trying to avoid heating a large volume of air. There are a few manufacturers, such as the Aztec brand, of 24"x24" radiant panels that may be suitable for your application, but I would rate this the least desirable option. Rapid heating of the space is difficult with these units, and there will likely be hot spots in the garage directly below the units due to the ceiling height. At a guess, I would think that your space would require at least six of these units, perhaps more for even coverage.

Baseboard heaters would get my vote for most desirable, though not without some drawbacks. Heating by this manner produces a very even (consistent) space temperature and is a simple install. The units operate silently except for an occasional sound as the units expand and contract. For shop use I would select a unit with a heavy duty cover. The drawback is that recovery times are not as quick as the fan-forced unit but I think that is not a killer detail. Just dial up the temperature a half hour prior to use.

Fan-forced heaters are probably the simplest and cheapest approach. The only complication are the framing requirements and the need for an unobstructed "view" of the shop for even dispersion of the heated air. Typically this unit would have the fastest recovery performance. They also have the highest amp rating due to the fan start up and would likely require a larger conductor. The drawbacks are the noise and the tendency to generate dust due to the fan. Additionally, the fan blades will have to be cleaned from time to time and the fan would have to be turned off during certain shop operations (varnishing comes to mind) which may involve hazardous materials.

All of these devices will most likely utilize a "line voltage" thermostat which should be carefully positioned and labeled as High Voltage. I always recommend a step down transformer and low voltage thermostat if available. If performing operations with hazardous materials be sure to provide intrinsically safe electrical devices to avoid sparks. Always exercise caution when working with high voltages, particularly 208/240 volt.

During periods of extreme cold, reduce the interior temperature accordingly. For example, at 40 degrees outside temperature you should have no problems with a 70 degree interior temperature. If it is zero degrees outside however, a more reasonable occupied interior temperature might be 60 degrees. All depends on your particular application.

Hope this is helpful.

As always, offered only as opinion
 
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Falcon67

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Jun 11, 2009
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Merkel, TX
Been married 29 years, I don't use 'em. Oh - condensation - sorry, misread.

I did find this that may help: "What makes comparing furnaces hard is getting an apples to apples measurement. DOE estimates that 1 kWh of electricity is worth 3.3 cubic feet of natural gas in terms of generating heat. A common method of comparison translates everything into how much energy is needed to produce a BTU. But even that still just measures heat generation. It doesn't take into account how efficient the heat delivery system is."

A little more research comes up with one therm (100 cu/ft gas) is equal to 29.3kW electric. I found a chart giving 14.20/k cu/ft gas in Iowa in June. So in raw material, you'll spend $1.42 per therm for gas vs $2.53 for 29.3 kW of electric. If this statment holds true "A furnace with a seasonal heating efficiency of 80% will use 12.5 therms to produce a million BTU's. " then that's $17.75 in gas vs $25.28 for electric (assuming 100% effeciency figures out at 10 therms per 1m BTU for electric heat) .

If the figures found are anywhere near right, you'd have to run 132 million BTUs through your cave to pay for the gas line. Some heating expert would have to say how long it would take to use up that much heat. For well insulated 300 sq/ft, I'd calculate "a while".

I personally went with electric because it really doesn't get that cold here usually and I got tired of using an unvented propane heater and the associated hassle of bottle filling. I never had any condensation issues here.
 
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tcianci

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Feb 7, 2009
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Location
Walpole, Ma
Agree with the baseboard being the most even but if you like to store stuff against your walls or have outlets on the walls, the baseboard is a drawback. I know there are codes that prohibit the location of outlets over baseboard resistance heating because of the temperatures attained at the heating element and a cord may fall into the opening. A fan forced electric heater mayb the way to go, they distribute a lot of air and are out of the way.
 

Identaltech

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Dec 20, 2008
Messages
514
Location
Norwalk Iowa
I live down the road from you. just south of Des moines.
the only condensation your going to have is on the metal surfaces when you heat the garage up from 40 to 60 fast.
if you slowly heat it up so that your tools warm up at closer to the same rate no problem.
I have found it easy to just leave it set at 60 or if I'm not going to be in it for the whole week (out of town for work) I may lower it to 40.
I heat with natural gas high efficiency force air furnace.
will the city of granger let you have a larg lp tank in your yard?
if so the lp companys will rent the tanks and will set it up.
 
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