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Conduit connection

jhrodd

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I'm adding a detached garage to my Tucson house and will need to get a 2" conduit with 4 AWG XHHW-2 wire from this 2 gang box to the ground. What are my options? I imagine an LB on the faceplate would not work due to access. A box extension probably wouldn't accommodate a 2" conduit. Some sort of surface mount junction box? Mount an LB lower down on the wall and fish the wires up to the 2 gang? What do you think?
 

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mike93lx

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Your junction box sizing is based on conduit size... 6x if pulling at a 90 degree angle, if I remember correctly. So that would mean a box with at least a 12" dimension in one direction.

Can you just run a LB into the wall?
 
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jhrodd

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Your junction box sizing is based on conduit size... 6x if pulling at a 90 degree angle, if I remember correctly. So that would mean a box with at least a 12" dimension in one direction.

Can you just run a LB into the wall?
That was one of my thoughts. Then fish it up into the 2 gang box.
 

sparky 1971

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That was one of my thoughts. Then fish it up into the 2 gang box.
They have to be in some type of conduit, so that ain't gonna work either unless you want to tear the wall apart. What is feeding the two gang now that you have to come out of it?
 
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jhrodd

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Pulled the cover and it seems it's only #4 AWG AL I seemed to recall that we were bringing #2 over to that box but I guess not. My sub panel is planned at 60 amps and the total length from the main panel to the sub panel in the detached garage will be about 70 feet so I'm thinking that's still good.
 

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sparky 1971

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It might be #4, but it's more than likely that it's going to be #6 SER cable, I can't tell from the picture, but I don't think a red wire nut will fit that nicely on a #4, but maybe. That also looks like a two gang handy box. I know single gang weather proof extensions are made, there might be a two gang available with 3/4 hubs, I've never needed one so I have never looked. If so, you can run a 3/4 to the garage with three #6 and a #10 ground. There may even be a deep extension with 1" hubs that you could fit #4 in. That's really all that can be done with what you have to work with that won't be a hack job.

Whatever the case may be, you're not going to get an LB in to that box. You could use UF cable through an LB below the box and fish into it, but that's going to be a lot of work.
 

PCustoms

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It might be #4, but it's more than likely that it's going to be #6 SER cable, I can't tell from the picture, but I don't think a red wire nut will fit that nicely on a #4, but maybe. That also looks like a two gang handy box. I know single gang weather proof extensions are made, there might be a two gang available with 3/4 hubs, I've never needed one so I have never looked. If so, you can run a 3/4 to the garage with three #6 and a #10 ground. There may even be a deep extension with 1" hubs that you could fit #4 in. That's really all that can be done with what you have to work with that won't be a hack job.

Whatever the case may be, you're not going to get an LB in to that box. You could use UF cable through an LB below the box and fish into it, but that's going to be a lot of work.

On top of that, how is the cable entering that box?
 

sparky 1971

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The cable that is already there? It probably runs through a knockout. If you mean the cable that is yet to be run, it could come in the bottom of an extension, but that's dependent on if a two gang exists. It could also go through an LB below and fished in, but that would be a beotch. There aren't many ways to do it clean but a couple ways to hack it that I'm going to keep to myself for now. I've been in a similar situation, but it was a flush 6X6 box and inside so I didn't have to worry about WR.
 
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jhrodd

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It is #4 XHHW wire and it enters the 2 gang from above.
 

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jhrodd

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The cable that is already there? It probably runs through a knockout. If you mean the cable that is yet to be run, it could come in the bottom of an extension, but that's dependent on if a two gang exists. It could also go through an LB below and fished in, but that would be a beotch. There aren't many ways to do it clean but a couple ways to hack it that I'm going to keep to myself for now. I've been in a similar situation, but it was a flush 6X6 box and inside so I didn't have to worry about WR.
Why would it be hard to fish the wire up from an LB? Couldn't the wire have some slack which would be pulled back through the LB after mounting it?
 

sparky 1971

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Why would it be hard to fish the wire up from an LB? Couldn't the wire have some slack which would be pulled back through the LB after mounting it?
Because the wire is going to be stiffer than a wedding **** and there won't be much room to get it bent around and into the box on top of the knockout may not be big enough for a UF cable. UF is flat and wide.
 
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jhrodd

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Because the wire is going to be stiffer than a wedding **** and there won't be much room to get it bent around and into the box on top of the knockout may not be big enough for a UF cable. UF is flat and wide.
I'm not using UF, I'm planning on XHHW in conduit out to the new garage.
 

sparky 1971

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Yes, the existing cable.

Hoping it's not just a standard 2-gange that someone drilled out....
It is. I thought it was a handy box, but in the new pics it looks like a plastic two gang. I don't think it's that big of a deal even if it had to be drilled. When I thought it was a handy box and #6 SER, it would have been in a 3/4 romex connector. But, now it's been shown to be #4 and that would have to be a 1" KO if it were a metal box.
 

rlitman

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Is it just me, or is the thought of trying to splice that aluminum IN that 2-gang box just nuts? Forget it. It may be big enough to use as a pull box, but even if you can pull your new section of wire up into that box, how do you plan to stuff all the connections back inside? That box has got to go. Is there slack on the inside? Enough to pull the whole jacket into the back of an exterior surface mount disconnect box?
 

sparky 1971

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I'm not using UF, I'm planning on XHHW in conduit out to the new garage.
You won't be able to fish that unless it's in some type of conduit like flex and you can't get a flex connector in that plastic box. The SER cable you have a picture of could be fished, but can't be used underground so the XHHW you want to use will have to be individual conductors, thus, it needs to be in conduit.
 

sparky 1971

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Is it just me, or is the thought of trying to splice that aluminum IN that 2-gang box just nuts? Forget it. It may be big enough to use as a pull box, but even if you can pull your new section of wire up into that box, how do you plan to stuff all the connections back inside? That box has got to go. Is there slack on the inside? Enough to pull the whole jacket into the back of an exterior surface mount disconnect box?
An extension box would make it much easier in all ways but still might not be easy enough.
 

PCustoms

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You won't be able to fish that unless it's in some type of conduit like flex and you can't get a flex connector in that plastic box. The SER cable you have a picture of could be fished, but can't be used outside so the XHHW you want to use will have to be individual conductors, thus, it needs to be in conduit.
What?

Ser can't be used outside?

Besides, he says (in what you quoted)
I'm not using UF, I'm planning on XHHW in conduit out to the new garage.

What am I missing?
 

sparky 1971

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What?

Ser can't be used outside?

Besides, he says (in what you quoted)


What am I missing?
I fixed it while you were posting. I meant underground.

He posted a picture of XHHW conductors, but they are in SER cable and that may be what he thinks he's going to use.
 
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jhrodd

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You won't be able to fish that unless it's in some type of conduit like flex and you can't get a flex connector in that plastic box. The SER cable you have a picture of could be fished, but can't be used underground so the XHHW you want to use will have to be individual conductors, thus, it needs to be in conduit.
Why would it need to be in conduit inside the wall?
 

sparky 1971

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Why would it need to be in conduit inside the wall?
Ok. Pay attention. The XHHW cable you posted a picture of is part of a cable assembly known as SER cable. That does not have to be in conduit so it could be fished without conduit. Unfortunately, it cannot be used underground so you would have to use individual XHHW conductors for that part. Those have to be in some type of conduit. So, how are you going to pull those from the garage to the LB, then get them into the existing box? Hint: you need to transition from the individual conductors to the SER cable and you can't splice in an LB. To do that, you will need a box 6X the diameter of the conduit you use. 2" conduitX6= a 12" box which could be used instead of an LB but it's going to look like ****.
 
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sparky 1971

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Without doing math, I think 1" might be good to go?
It will fit in 1" but I don't know if a two gang Bell box extension with a 1" KO exists. I've used many one gang extensions when I couldn't fit 10 pounds of **** in an eight pound box and those always had 1/2" hubs but I didn't need those so I didn't care. I do know that there's no way they were deep enough for a 1" hub, but there might also be deeper versions but I'm not going to look. Google is a friend.
That would be fine with me, it looks like a box extension would work with 1".
 
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jhrodd

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That would be fine with me, it looks like a box extension would work with 1".
Could I use something like this sealed and fastened to the wall over the existing 2 gang?
 

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PCustoms

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@sparky 1971 can confirm, but I'd have to consider using the existing box as "a hole in the wall" where a SER bushing/clamp screwed into a 6" PVC box would fit. Box would then be glued to stucco and 1" PVC can go wherever.

Not sure how NEC would view that...
 

sparky 1971

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@sparky 1971 can confirm, but I'd have to consider using the existing box as "a hole in the wall" where a SER bushing/clamp screwed into a 6" PVC box would fit. Box would then be glued to stucco and 1" PVC can go wherever.
Not sure how NEC would view that...
I honestly don't know about that one. I would think that at a minimum, the jacket of the SER would have to make it into the new box. Then there's the listing on top of everything else.

I know what I would do and that would be get a two gang extension, if one isn't available with a 1" hub, use one with 3/4 openings and run #6 copper. But I like to keep things simple as well as it isn't my project.
 
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