conduit fill chart for LAN cables?

[dogdog]

I am trying to figure out the proper conduit fill size... for my current apartment renovation... makes swapping out the cables later on easier... going with either cat6A or cat6E+ maybe, cat5E... dependent on price..


is this a good chart to use ?

https://www.mohawk-cable.com/hubfs/Support-Assets/conduit_fill_guide_thumb.png

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I wouldnt bother with CAT6a unless youre doing some massive file transfers on the LAN and need the 10Gbps speed @ 100 meters AND you have the hardware that runs 10Gbps.

And dont bother buying CAT6e because there is no standard for it, so who knows what youre really buying.

CAT6 should be fine for any home user. Actually, 5e works just fine too but if you must have newer cable, then CAT6 would do fine.

Also, that chart lists plenum rated wire which may have a slightly thicker jacket. Are you running these cables through air handling spaces? If not, then you dont need plenum rated wire which is a lot more expensive.

 

[m96ag]

I wouldnt bother with CAT6a unless youre doing some massive file transfers on the LAN and need the 10G speed @ 100 meters AND you have the hardware that runs 10Gig.

And dont bother buying CAT6e because there is no standard for it, so who knows what youre really buying.

CAT6 should be fine for any home user. Actually, 5e works just fine too but if you must have newer cable, then CAT6 would do fine.

Also, that chart lists plenum rated wire which may have a slightly thicker jacket. Are you running these cables through air handling spaces? If not, then you dont need plenum rated wire which is a lot more expensive.

I would run Cat 6, it’s cheap enough and it supports 10GB

 

[Kaizen]

I ran cat6. Did it in half inch pipe and it sucked bigtime. They list 3 in a 3/4 pipe? Good luck with that.
The way everything is going you only need some direct points to a few locations then use wireless devices and signal boosters. I used it to get out to the garage. Ran cat6 open through walls in house. Never used any of it but it’s future proof.


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[dogdog]

Yes, contemplating... the major point on this thread is the conduit... run is about 40' maybe... I have everything knocked down, so thinkng maybe installing conduits of cause that means trying to get a reasonable size conduit for two rooms .... so I don't break ceiling and walls to remove and fetch next time around in cable upgrades... or in my other cases... bad cable in one of the run after everything is painted.... as far as cat5e cat 6 cat6a cat6E+ stuff... I guess that can be some what flexible ... choice. More of a wisdom question from you seasoned pros / experienced what size is good choice.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I would run Cat 6, it’s cheap enough and it supports 10GB upto 55meters

fixed it for you

 

[Higgins]

Going in should go OK. IMHO The problem you will have is when you start to remove one or more cables, as they will get all wrapped together and will be difficult to pull out!

AL

 

[Stuart in MN]

Everyone is ignoring the actual question, which is about conduit fill. If the chart you posted is for plenum rated cable, as mentioned it's typically a little thicker than regular cable but that will just give you a little margin of safety. Also, there are any number of online conduit fill calculators available, this one will work as long as you know the diameter of the cable you'll be installing. https://tools.belden.com/conduit-capacity-calculator/

Higgins makes a good point - if you need to install more cables in the future, just plan on pulling them all out and then reinstalling them again. It's next to impossible to try to pull another cable in a conduit that already has cables in it.

 

[jeffmoss26]

I ran cat6. Did it in half inch pipe and it sucked bigtime. They list 3 in a 3/4 pipe? Good luck with that.
The way everything is going you only need some direct points to a few locations then use wireless devices and signal boosters. I used it to get out to the garage. Ran cat6 open through walls in house. Never used any of it but it’s future proof.


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I feel like you could barely fit 1 cat6 cable in 1/2" conduit lol

 

[dogdog]

Everyone is ignoring the actual question, which is about conduit fill. If the chart you posted is for plenum rated cable, as mentioned it's typically a little thicker than regular cable but that will just give you a little margin of safety. Also, there are any number of online conduit fill calculators available, this one will work as long as you know the diameter of the cable you'll be installing. https://tools.belden.com/conduit-capacity-calculator/

Higgins makes a good point - if you need to install more cables in the future, just plan on pulling them all out and then reinstalling them again. It's next to impossible to try to pull another cable in a conduit that already has cables in it.

thx for the link... maybe it's not a good idea then? Yes main point is about the conduit. but anything else is extra...

 

[Kaizen]

I feel like you could barely fit 1 cat6 cable in 1/2" conduit lol

Did fine till it turned. Never putting less then 3/4 in again.


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[Kaizen]

Yes, contemplating... the major point on this thread is the conduit... run is about 40' maybe... I have everything knocked down, so thinkng maybe installing conduits of cause that means trying to get a reasonable size conduit for two rooms .... so I don't break ceiling and walls to remove and fetch next time around in cable upgrades... or in my other cases... bad cable in one of the run after everything is painted.... as far as cat5e cat 6 cat6a cat6E+ stuff... I guess that can be some what flexible ... choice. More of a wisdom question from you seasoned pros / experienced what size is good choice.

I get what you are thinking but how are you terminating it? Using a four square deep box that has side knockouts? Or are you just bringing to a box in the wall? Never seen conduit in a 2x4 wall. Emt sure in concrete


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[Max]

A couple of observations:
- It’s 10 Gb/s, not 10 GB/s. “B” is bytes (8 bits), and “b” is bits. Either speed is well past what almost all home users will be able to use effectively.
- I am not an expert on the NEC, but my understanding is that conduit fill requirements in the NEC are due to concerns that the wires carrying current will overheat in the conduit. I do not think that this an issue for any kind of ethernet cabling. Even PoE (power over ethernet) is relatively low currents and voltages. Once again the NEC experts can correct me if I am wrong, but I think cat 5/5e/6/etc. is not covered by the NEC at all.
- As data rates get faster the termination of the cable is increasingly critical. Testers that can effectively test high data rates are expensive and rarely used. (As an example, my $500 Fluke tester can do a lot of tests but it can’t do data error tests.). The ethernet protocol can detect and correct many errors at the cost of lower bandwidth, so most folks have no idea if they got it right or not. Do the research up front so you terminate the cables correctly. Or at least leave yourself some extra cable so you can redo the ends later.

Max

 

[volleyball]

You never can future proof. Just extend time is your goal. I ignore anyone that says such and such is all you will need. Speed will always increase.
Copper has a limited life in wiring equipment. But is the best solution for today and near future.
I don't get the 40% fill. Maybe space for additional circuits. I'd run the largest conduit that comfortably fit the wall, add more conduit if it is not big enough. Home running a conduit for each unit is the way I would do it if possible.
I run pull string in my conduit. That way I can pull more wire. It goes in less tangled. Just remember to pull a new string along with your wire. That way you don't have to pull back existing wires.

 

[grounded-b]

I ran cat6. Did it in half inch pipe and it sucked bigtime. They list 3 in a 3/4 pipe? Good luck with that.

You ran ONE cat 6 in a 1/2" conduit, and had trouble?

How many degrees of bends were you trying to pull through?

Wire lube would have helped.

Steve

 

[GRB]

Two Cat6 plus one Cat5 two pair is the norm that we pull to desks in many of my businesses. Most of them are 1/2" pvc that is run down from above the drop ceiling to the box. Zero problem. 1/2" flex is difficult but doable.
If you are having a tough time getting one network cable thru 1/2" it has to be due to too many bends.
These are when running new cables in old buildings. On new work we just use the 3/4" plastic low voltage flex.

 

[dogdog]

I get what you are thinking but how are you terminating it? Using a four square deep box that has side knockouts? Or are you just bringing to a box in the wall? Never seen conduit in a 2x4 wall. Emt sure in concrete


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previously I just run it over the ceiling and down the wall into a 4" metal box, with the mug rings... outside they sell those plates for it.. ... but apparently some of the cables were bad batch from HD.. so... that was bad. found out after it was too late.

yes 4" square gang box mug ring... with an appropriate cat6 or cat5 connector then a coupler and a plate....

 

[bamawildcat]

If the comm cable is in wall (and thus ceiling) rated, I'd skip the conduit. In this case the most important object is a pathway and a pre-run pull string or mule tape. As long as you can get a wire from A to B, you are golden.

 

[dogdog]

If the comm cable is in wall (and thus ceiling) rated, I'd skip the conduit. In this case the most important object is a pathway and a pre-run pull string or mule tape. As long as you can get a wire from A to B, you are golden.

Everything is opened, all walls are down right now (literally removed).. so getting the wire from Point A to B is no issue at this point... but of cause being a home gamer, I don't have fancy ***** meters to verify the wiring unless I fully hook it up somehow with 2 gigbit Ethernet switch, just to see that I have a gbps connection between the two points.... to verify in short of having one of those fancy ***** meters (can't justify to buy one).

The thinking is that the conduit will at least let me pull new wires if the old one is bad after the wall/ceiling are up and painted... most likely I'll go with EMTs since pvc I can't do some minor bends with the bender... and a good 90deg sweep for easier wire pull, no LBs or tight corner ones...

 

[volleyball]

if you are having problem with new cable they you have really cheap wire you don;t want to use or you are yanking on it way too hard.
You can test the wire before you put it in the wall.
Since this is your property investing in conduit is a no brainer. While you can use the old wire to pull the new one it doesn't always work.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Everything is opened, all walls are down right now (literally removed).. so getting the wire from Point A to B is no issue at this point... but of cause being a home gamer, I don't have fancy ***** meters to verify the wiring unless I fully hook it up somehow with 2 gigbit Ethernet switch, just to see that I have a gbps connection between the two points.... to verify in short of having one of those fancy ***** meters (can't justify to buy one).

The thinking is that the conduit will at least let me pull new wires if the old one is bad after the wall/ceiling are up and painted... most likely I'll go with EMTs since pvc I can't do some minor bends with the bender... and a good 90deg sweep for easier wire pull, no LBs or tight corner ones...

If yoyre talking about a certifier, you could hire someone to certify your cables or rent one for few hundred bucks.

But as long as you keep the cables away from sources of interference and terminate properly, you should be fine.

 

[Bad Habit]

Don't use emt, use the blue Smurf Tube (ENT). real easy to work with, allows for adds/changes down the road.

Don't bother with anything beyond Cat 6, the likelihood of doing anything beyond 1Gbs is minimal (actually Cat5E will handle it too). That's assuming you're using real Cat5e or Cat 6, not some copper clad offshore ****. If you're planning on doing some real high end Centralized video system and using HDBase-T for transport, that's a different story, but then we probably wouldn't be having this discussion because with those kind of bucks, you'd be paying somebody to engineer it all

Part of the rationale for conduit fill ratios is basic space limitations for placing cables, there is a lot of wasted annular space between cables.

 

[outdoorspace]

Use CAT6 unless you have long runs, then CAT6a. These will support 10GbE. 10GbE prices have fallen dramatically in the past couple years. In 10 years it will be commonplace.

 

[dogdog]

Don't use emt, use the blue Smurf Tube (ENT). real easy to work with, allows for adds/changes down the road.

Don't bother with anything beyond Cat 6, the likelihood of doing anything beyond 1Gbs is minimal (actually Cat5E will handle it too). That's assuming you're using real Cat5e or Cat 6, not some copper clad offshore ****. If you're planning on doing some real high end Centralized video system and using HDBase-T for transport, that's a different story, but then we probably wouldn't be having this discussion because with those kind of bucks, you'd be paying somebody to engineer it all

Part of the rationale for conduit fill ratios is basic space limitations for placing cables, there is a lot of wasted annular space between cables.

I thought about those ENT, but the price goes crazy after 1", not sure if plastic should be that much 1-1/2 @25' is $85 while 1" @25' is $27... crazy pricing ....... but the 1" might be what I needed 2x rolls...

yes not able to pay for a certify engineered tested systems, not needed and certainly can't afford or justify the spending... it's just a DIY thing... learning in process, trying to do it to standard as much as possible, and see what is good practice.... more for the conduit side at this point..... wires, I have and not worry.....

 

[GRB]

I wouldn't use ENT larger than 3/4". 100' is about $35.
1" becomes an issue with the short standard roll of 25'.

Are you running more than six or seven wires?

 

[Kaizen]

You ran ONE cat 6 in a 1/2" conduit, and had trouble?

How many degrees of bends were you trying to pull through?

Wire lube would have helped.

Steve

actually it was two. by the time it got stuck i was 95 percent there. couldnt pull it either way easy and didnt want to break it. still not sure what it was stuck on. had to dig it and cut the conduit and pull it further. blew lube in after the fact with some compressed air. that was funny

 

[Kaizen]

previously I just run it over the ceiling and down the wall into a 4" metal box, with the mug rings... outside they sell those plates for it.. ... but apparently some of the cables were bad batch from HD.. so... that was bad. found out after it was too late.

yes 4" square gang box mug ring... with an appropriate cat6 or cat5 connector then a coupler and a plate....

gotcha. that *****. I make them all and test them before i install them. learned the hard way not knowing they are 100percent before install is really hard to fix.

 

[dogdog]

I wouldn't use ENT larger than 3/4". 100' is about $35.
1" becomes an issue with the short standard roll of 25'.

Are you running more than six or seven wires?

just the biggest possible since I don't know what wire, how many wire... ... within a reasonable price range of cause.

 

[Arkive]

Just to reiterate what others are saying, unless you have runs over 50M (which in an apartment I doubt), CAT6 is your best bet. It supports the same transfer speeds when installed properly and you gain nothing with the Cat6A apart from a lot of headaches managing the cable runs (especially at the wall box and double especially with multi-drops). You could go foil/shielded if you're concerned about adjacent traffic but if you have clean runs that only intersect/cross with power lines I wouldn't bother with the headache of the termination at each end.

 

[dogdog]

Just to reiterate what others are saying, unless you have runs over 50M (which in an apartment I doubt), CAT6 is your best bet. It supports the same transfer speeds when installed properly and you gain nothing with the Cat6A apart from a lot of headaches managing the cable runs (especially at the wall box and double especially with multi-drops). You could go foil/shielded if you're concerned about adjacent traffic but if you have clean runs that only intersect/cross with power lines I wouldn't bother with the headache of the termination at each end.

Yes, cabling is not the problem I have spools of them (cat5 cat5E cat6 and cat6E and cat6A stuff, not sure why I keep buying them...) .... the problem is the piping, trying to see what is good size I should run.. ... since that will be sealed up into the walls and ceilings... I wanted to be able to pull new cables without breaking walls and ceilings later on... Not concerned with interference... all electrical cables that have potential to interfering is BX and the run probably cross a small 1 or two wires... as for adjuscent traffic... maybe... that is the wonders of having a pipe (EMT or ENT) installed... hopefully I can snake a new one in...with ease...

 

[dogdog]

If yoyre talking about a certifier, you could hire someone to certify your cables or rent one for few hundred bucks.

But as long as you keep the cables away from sources of interference and terminate properly, you should be fine.

probably not going to hire out or buying or renting one if the cable is bad, I'll just redo the whole bundle...cheaper for me. at least if I go with this conduit setup....