Conduit questions

[jpcjguy]

Hi all,

This is an offshoot of another similar thread I had. There are two questions.
First - In order to run electrical to my detached garage, I am limited on options. I have attached pictures of my panels in the attached garage and where my proposed line run will be marked in red. I also have a picture that shows a yellow line that comes out and then goes down and around the corner. That actually might be easier as I am not going around an inside corner. Either way, red or yellow, the conduit will go along the garage slab (18" down) and under the stone steps to the mudroom and then punch into the crawlspace to go to the other corner of the house and then punch out again to go to the detached garage. Thoughts on the red or yellow conduit lines?

Second question. Since my house panels are not convenient to running any new lines to the house, I was thinking of making the conduit big enough to be able to pull other wires (12/2) for anything else I might need. For example, we might enclose the patio as a screened porch so I would run new wires for ceiling fan/lights/outlets ideally in the same conduit since it would be the path of least resistance!
Is that possible? If so, how do I size the conduit? What about in the crawl space where I will have the large wire for the detached garage continuing on, but need to have any 12/2 "break out" under the house for other things?

Thanks,
Joe

 

[FordTruckWench]

Either way, red or yellow, the conduit will go along the garage slab (18" down) and under the stone steps to the mudroom and then punch into the crawlspace to go to the other corner of the house and then punch out again to go to the detached garage.

Is there any possibility of an interior route to the crawlspace? Those panels have plenty of breakers, so clearly those circuits are routed indoors.

 

[jpcjguy]

Is there any possibility of an interior route to the crawlspace? Those panels have plenty of breakers, so clearly those circuits are routed indoors.

Not really. I would have to go up and into the unfinished area behind the knee wall above the garage, then fish up into the attic space and down two stories back to the crawlspace and then out. Not only is there no easy path, but it increases my already 200'+ foot run to the detached.
Here are the two possible routes. As you can see coming out away from the house puts me right into the retaining wall and then across my septic field which is directly behind the house.....

 

[wyliesdiesels]

you mentioned 12/2. just an FYI that NM-b is not permitted to be used outdoors or underground.

Also, if you run multiple wires in pipe you have to be mindful of not only pipe fill but also reduction in ampacity depending on number of wires.

Also, NM-b would not be fun to pull through a pipe that already has wires in it. Would be better to use THWN then splice to NM-b in a junction box

 

[jpcjguy]

you mentioned 12/2. just an FYI that NM-b is not permitted to be used outdoors or underground.

Also, if you run multiple wires in pipe you have to be mindful of not only pipe fill but also reduction in ampacity depending on number of wires.

Also, NM-b would not be fun to pull through a pipe that already has wires in it. Would be better to use THWN then splice to NM-b in a junction box

Thanks for the information on THWN and pulling new wire. I was using 12/2 as an example of the wire size that would be used for other circuits around the house. I don't have much experience in pulling in conduit.

So if I use a large, such as 4", conduit to get me under the house, can I have that go to a junction box where the large wires for the detached garage can pass through and other wires can then go up into the house where needed?
It would be nice to only dig once and have a large conduit that will also meet any future needs. (There has been talk of a pool on the other side of the main house also, so I would need to run power for pumps and a pool house)

 

[Radix2]

You are not going to want to do all those bends as you show on your pictures in conduit. You need to plan on getting through the wall, down into your conduit, turn to follow the ground and at most one more. Don't try to zigzag around the corner and down, etc. tear open the inside wall to easily get to your starting point at least. How big of a feed are you installing?

Maybe use a direct bury like uf to get from inside to the crawlspace without messing with conduit, put a conduit in for your small expansion wires if needed. Then you can easily zig zag all you want to stay close to the foundation and not worry about conduit. That is a very protected location, and you can sleeve it simply if you want extra protection.

 

[jpcjguy]

You are not going to want to do all those bends as you show on your pictures in conduit. You need to plan on getting through the wall, down into your conduit, turn to follow the ground and at most one more. Don't try to zigzag around the corner and down, etc. tear open the inside wall to easily get to your starting point at least. How big of a feed are you installing?

Maybe use a direct bury like uf to get from inside to the crawlspace without messing with conduit, put a conduit in for your small expansion wires if needed. Then you can easily zig zag all you want to stay close to the foundation and not worry about conduit. That is a very protected location, and you can sleeve it simply if you want extra protection.

That is why I am thinking the yellow path would be best. I figure I can use a conduit body at the garage wall, then I would have 2 turns before the run to under the house.

 

[teamextreme]

All the bends can be minimized by using conduit bodies (LB's, etc) as you mentioned. There's a ****-ton of obstacles, walls, transitions, etc in that conduit run that will be a pain to deal with and possibly be an eyesore when you're done. Have you considered just running out away from the house into the yard and underground trenching the whole way around the patio? You can route the conduit in big gentle sweeps to avoid 90's.

 

[jpcjguy]

All the bends can be minimized by using conduit bodies (LB's, etc) as you mentioned. There's a ****-ton of obstacles, walls, transitions, etc in that conduit run that will be a pain to deal with and possibly be an eyesore when you're done. Have you considered just running out away from the house into the yard and underground trenching the whole way around the patio? You can route the conduit in big gentle sweeps to avoid 90's.

I have, but if you look at the pic of the back of the house closely - there is a retaining wall that I would have to go through and then circle far around to avoid my septic lines. This would increase overall length meaning larger wire size. Also this does not help me with new circuits for the house (screened porch) - so the idea is to dig once, cry once.

 

[njccmd2002]

as someone who had his back and upper arms of pulling three 3g + one 5g wires through 2 inch conduit. You will be better off doing it into 2 conduits. pulling wires in already filled conduit will not be fun, unless you pull all the wires needed on the first go around.

how deep are the septic lines, and how big are they. PVC? you can pass the conduit underneath them. Use a shovel to dig near them... I trenched with a ditchwitch on the clear paths, and used a shovel near the bad stuff.

 

[Radix2]

I'll say it again, for that path, direct bury it. Bury a couple 12 or 14 ga too for other uses. If you think some spot might need to be dug up in the future put a sleeve there. Conduit is a fetish on here and a heck of a lot of extra work in cases like this IMO.

 

[tinysparky]

Not an electrician...but why not run a sub panel then a circuit or two back to the porch if you are so inclined?

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[dcg9381]

I kinda agree with the above. Amazon has a great exterior grade RV sub panel, comes with 50A, 30A, and 20A breakers for about $120. I think it has 4 or 5 breaker slots left in it. Bring 55A of main power over via 6/3 to that box and distribute it from there. 6/3 will fit in 1" conduit (might use 1.25 - and you can flexible non-metallic conduit for some of the bends.