Conduit Size

[ducatithunder]

So I am going to be running power out to the shop later next week. It is a 100amp panel. The plan is to run either 1AWG or 1/0 XHHW-2 wire with a 6AWG ground. Larger wire for the voltage drop. The voltage drop with 1AWG is under 2.4% and with 1/0 its under 2% @ 240V and under 5% on 1AWG @ 120V. The price per ft for #1 is .25 cents local and little more for 1/0. It is way cheaper then MHF locally and Im running conduit regardless. I have no interest on pulling MHF nor 90amp max. Looking for a true 100 amp supply without running on the ragged edge. I have a lathe and mill running VFDs, AC Heatpump, LED Lamps, 5HP compressor, 2 welders, plasma, and 2 car lifts. I went down the path with POCO for 400 amp service was not worth pursuing due to cost involved and what they state Im responsible for. I should be able to keep it below 100amps as its a one man shop with a buddy here and there. Cost is under $800 on this route vs 5x that. Im getting side tracked ... back to the real question.

I know XHHW is supposed to pull better due to the slicker insulation. With the Southwire conduit calculator it says Im in the 26% fill range with 1/0 in 1-1/2 conduit. The run is 130 ft straight with a slight 45 into a 90 before the LB at each end. I dont want to run larger conduit then 1-1/2 unless I have to. Honestly I feel like that should be plenty, but Im looking for a real world analysis from the group. Would you bundle or pull each conductor individually. Last time I pulled 4 conductors bundled 4/0 and it was a PITA. Never pulled on a run like this individually. Anyone have experience with a pull like this? Any regerts? Thanks.

 

[Jim greengo]

2" pvc with expansion joints on each end above grade depending on your frost conditions.
I'd take pipe that's a little oversized anyday when it comes to pulling wire.

 

[jchetty]

2" pvc with expansion joints on each end above grade depending on your frost conditions.
I'd take pipe that's a little oversized anyday when it comes to pulling wire.

I would do this and pull in one bundle using a capstan.

 

[Bert_]

It would pull fine in 1 1/2". The 2" wouldn't hurt anything though.

Pull all wires together unless you feel you need some punishment that day.

 

[ducatithunder]

I would do this and pull in one bundle using a capstan.

Thanks guys. I do not have access to a capstan. This will be pulled by hand.

 

[ducatithunder]

It would pull fine in 1 1/2". The 2" wouldn't hurt anything though.

Pull all wires together unless you feel you need some punishment that day.

Understood. I will bundle the bunch. I've had enough punishment in the last couple months. Thanks.

 

[brewchief]

There are cases where you need to upsize your ground wire if you are upsizing your current carrying conductors for voltage drop, someone who knows the code better then myself will be able to tell you if it will apply here if you run the 1/0 wire.

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[alfredeneuman]

Understood. I will bundle the bunch. I've had enough punishment in the last couple months. Thanks.

If you've had enough punishment don't bundle them. They won't go around bends easily at all .
Either remove the tape before pulling or pull them all at once off of separate rolls.

 

[Jim greengo]

Stagger them where you tape them together.

 

[larry4406]

I used 2" conduit and XHHW for my barn project and it went well. I had originally thought of using MHF (in conduit) but the XHHW was cheaper, and the sparkies here said smaller in bundle and slicker so would pull better.

I pulled mine all at once. Vacuum first pulled kite string thru (tied to a wad of newspaper) which then was used to pull the mule tape for pulling the XHHW.

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[Innovate1]

I had about the same size wires and conduit and it went very smoothly with a 200' pull. I did use 24" radius bends. Bent them myself because I couldn't find large radius bends in less than 2". Used steam through a larger pipe as a heat chamber for about 3 minutes and they bend very easily and uniformly. Just used a common tea kettle for steam into one end - you don't need much flow.

I rigged up a tripod with pulley on the pull end to make it easier to pull the wire up. Had a helper to feed the wire and push a bit on the other end. Mine was on separate rolls.

 

[7635tools]

1 1/2” will work but 2” would be easier to pull through. At least with the 2” if you ever want to upsize the wire down the road because you need more power, the pipe is already there. Garages/shops are always evolving. You never know what you might get into down the road. I did 2” to my shop when I first moved here and just put in 100a panel. Fast forward 10 years and I needed more power for all the equipment. Now it’s a 150a feeder with 3/0 copper. If I didn’t put the 2” in at the beginning, I would have had to re trench in bigger conduit.


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[sberry]

1 1/2 was made for number 2 alum. Last pipe I put larger in we didn't glue it, if you got to turn or lb it's a real job. 2 inch for me.

 

[jchetty]

I had about the same size wires and conduit and it went very smoothly with a 200' pull. I did use 24" radius bends. Bent them myself because I couldn't find large radius bends in less than 2". Used steam through a larger pipe as a heat chamber for about 3 minutes and they bend very easily and uniformly. Just used a common tea kettle for steam into one end - you don't need much flow.

I rigged up a tripod with pulley on the pull end to make it easier to pull the wire up. Had a helper to feed the wire and push a bit on the other end. Mine was on separate rolls.

I like the way you work Funny how it seems to always go smoothly when a lot of knowledge and a little foresight are involved.

1 1/2 was made for number 2 alum. Last pipe I put larger in we didn't glue it, if you got to turn or lb it's a real job. 2 inch for me.

If it is in the ground (direct-bury, pvc, concrete, Tesla tunnel, ninja turtle’s home), I will only use copper. For me- aluminum only goes above ground. Seen way to much aluminum fail over the years.

 

[ducatithunder]

Thanks guy. I will take a look at 2" conduit. Its just that much more pipe I will have to see on my rear patio next to the meter. If I ran 2 inch pipe for the main chase could I reduce it where it come out of the ground to a smaller conduit and LB? Understandable with planning for future loads hence running the larger wire that will handle 100A no issue. I dont foresee having any more load going out the the shop. Its all about compromises and really thinking about wants and needs. Its coming off a 200A panel in the house already. If I have issues splitting the loads then Ill be upgrading the house to 320A service. We have been in this house for 5 years and no issues with power. Pretty much all electric loads in the house. Thanks for the advice!

 

[ducatithunder]

1 1/2” will work but 2” would be easier to pull through. At least with the 2” if you ever want to upsize the wire down the road because you need more power, the pipe is already there. Garages/shops are always evolving. You never know what you might get into down the road. I did 2” to my shop when I first moved here and just put in 100a panel. Fast forward 10 years and I needed more power for all the equipment. Now it’s a 150a feeder with 3/0 copper. If I didn’t put the 2” in at the beginning, I would have had to re trench in bigger conduit.


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I have a bobcat and a small 3500lb remote winch for dragging cars up on the 4 post lift. I might be able to use the bobcat as an anchor or tripod for the winch and pull 8ft at a time if I bowline the pulling strap Thanks.

 

[Innovate1]

Reducing in the middle of a run is asking for trouble in my opinion. Too much chance of the pull hanging up there.

The winch sounds like overkill. If something hangs up you could mess things up quickly. I had no trouble hand pulling it. A little more work but not bad.

 

[jchetty]

Reducing in the middle of a run is asking for trouble in my opinion. Too much chance of the pull hanging up there.

The winch sounds like overkill. If something hangs up you could mess things up quickly. I had no trouble hand pulling it. A little more work but not bad.

I agree with this. That is why I like capstans. The OP should look into at least a pulley system.

I have pulled more wire than I care to admit. For the bigger stuff, we always use a pulling basket, a swivel, and bull line. Never once had a problem.

For the smaller stuff, a rolling hitch, a few half hitches, 1/2 rope and not stopping will get it done. But stopping and taking multiple bites especially when you have multiple 45s & 90s is not a good idea. The reason is wire has a natural coil in it. So if you keep tension by not stopping, you have less of a chance of it coiling before a transition.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

my voltage drop calcs came out a little different (2.6% and 2.2%) but you should be fine with #1 AL and a #6 for the EGC. dont forget to isolate the neutral bus bar

 

[ducatithunder]

Thanks. I’m not looking to reduce it in the middle of the run ... only at the ends were it comes out of the ground. Reduce it to 1-1/2 or 1-1/4 for the vertical 3 feet into the LB after the 90 in the ground. Just a thought so I don’t have a huge piece of conduit on my patio you’ll see. I could upsize the main run for ease of pulling with 2” conduit. Much smaller hole in either exterior wall. The connections to the main and sub are 4 ft on either side of where it comes up out if the ground so that should be hard to pull. Again just a thought.

I’m going to pull it by hand ... just thought the winch might work if needed. Understood about keeping tension. I’ve pulled a fair amount of wire in ships ... the worst is breaking the tugger in a deck penetration and having to start over on a 400ft run to a motor.

I also have a small 1/2T chain come along which might work well vs a small winch if I hit some resistance. The run is pretty straight forward. It would be a breeze with #1 .... maybe it’s overkill running 1/0. Just added security for down the road. Thanks for the volt drop calc check.


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[sberry]

Going in is easier than pulling out. In you can use push pull. If it can't be done by hand here home diy then the pipe is really too small.

 

[ducatithunder]

Going in is easier than pulling out. In you can use push pull. If it can't be done by hand here home diy then the pipe is really too small.

Sounds good. Last time I had to pull in conduit it was 300 plus going out to a subpanel on a pier. Not a great job. We had to used a winch to pull the bundle and tons of lube. With the info and lessons learned from the group I think I have a pretty good plan forward. Thanks.

 

[Innovate1]

I didn't explain myself clearly on reducing the size. I didn't mean literally in the middle, more like anywhere along the run. If you were to reduce only one end you could feed from that end and the transition would be from smaller to larger so no problem with the wire jamming. With reductions on each end you have a chance of jamming going either way. If the lead end of the wires is tapered and the fit not too tight you are probably ok but something to consider. When I did mine I stripped back the insulation about a foot and folded half opposite ways to form a loop. This resulted in no abrupt steps on the leading edge so less likely to hang up. I put all the bells on the sections in the direction to have the taper and not the step in the direction of pull - maybe overkill but hardly any extra trouble to do.

 

[Jim greengo]

Thanks. I’m not looking to reduce it in the middle of the run ... only at the ends were it comes out of the ground. Reduce it to 1-1/2 or 1-1/4 for the vertical 3 feet into the LB after the 90 in the ground. Just a thought so I don’t have a huge piece of conduit on my patio you’ll see. I could upsize the main run for ease of pulling with 2” conduit. Much smaller hole in either exterior wall. The connections to the main and sub are 4 ft on either side of where it comes up out if the ground so that should be hard to pull. Again just a thought.

I’m going to pull it by hand ... just thought the winch might work if needed. Understood about keeping tension. I’ve pulled a fair amount of wire in ships ... the worst is breaking the tugger in a deck penetration and having to start over on a 400ft run to a motor.

I also have a small 1/2T chain come along which might work well vs a small winch if I hit some resistance. The run is pretty straight forward. It would be a breeze with #1 .... maybe it’s overkill running 1/0. Just added security for down the road. Thanks for the volt drop calc check.


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Dont reduce it any place.

 

[brewchief]

If you really want to reduce it for aesthetics then I would come out of the ground with 2" into a straight pull body( like an LB but straight in and out) and then reduce coming out of that for the vertical piece up the wall. It will give you access at the reduction point.



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[sberry]

I got 1000s of feet direct bury alu . Some pipe but most plowed. Never not once a problem, never seen it where someone didn't hit it with equipment.

 

[nadogail]

IMHO, it is impossible for a conduit to be too big to pull wire through. On The Other Hand, it is too easy to have a conduit too small to pull a bundle of wires through.

 

[Bert_]

IMHO, it is impossible for a conduit to be too big to pull wire through. On The Other Hand, it is too easy to have a conduit too small to pull a bundle of wires through.

It does get to a point we're the pipe won't fit in the equipment. With residential equipment you are going to run into that past 2 or 2 1/2".

 

[Bert_]

I'm pulled 4/0-4/0-2/0-4 into 2" conduit over 100' before without problems. With that size wire you really don't want to do it by hand though.

Refed this existing panel with 4/0 in 2" conduit. Sometimes you just get a little creative. The panel is behind the tower in this picture

 

[Jim greengo]

I'm pulled 4/0-4/0-2/0-4 into 2" conduit over 100' before without problems. With that size wire you really don't want to do it by hand though.

Refed this existing panel with 4/0 in 2" conduit. Sometimes you just get a little creative. The panel is behind the tower in this picture

That's my preferred tugger for pulling also!

 

[Bert_]

That's my preferred tugger for pulling also!

It's amazing what you can do with a pulley and a piece of equipment. Sure beats setting up the real wire puller.

 

[rburke65]

I’d be crazy not using 2”