Confused on what to do??????

[caper150]

Ok I have been dealing with my infloor heat system for a few years now and am still not convinced on what to do. Right now I have a 32X40 shop well insulated floor,walls, ceiling but I run my infloor heating system off a 40Gal (Short) eletric water heater. Last year was better than the first(no Ceiling that yr) but my eletric bill more than doubles,almost triples in the winter.

now last year I was in to find out at the building supply store where I had bought everything, talked to them in there, got some info on how the setup should be, but while I was there I was talking to an older gentman who told me that no matter what I would never get what I wanted out of my infloor system and need something to supplement the floor, now that got me to thinking. I have/am looking at 3 options to have decent heat that is not go broke.

1) install a larger water heater 75/80 gal or tankless.
2) Install a LP Ventless hearter
3) Install a LP hot air furnace

I have the ventless heater that is in my attached garage that is not used, but I am worried about running it all the time plus possible condisation. I have an oppturnity to buy an LP hot air furnace at a reasonable price. I hardly ever open the OH doors in the winter. I am just confused on which would be the best option for me.........HELP!!!!

 

[caper150]

Can anyone help me......

 

[phbsales]

If you can get a 60,000 btu LP hot air furnace, that would do the trick nicely.

I would shy away from the ventless heater, though. In order for that to fire it needs oxygen. Where's it going to draw from? You guessed it...from inside the garage. Now with the by-products of combustion (CO and CO2) where's it going to go? Right again...inside the space, displacing any oxygen that you need to breathe, or that the heater needs to work.

Direct vent is the way to go, IMO.

Can't tell you a whole lot about your radiant infloor, though. Could be a number of issues there....

Good luck!

 

[caper150]

Thanks phb, it's just that money is a little tight and I don't want to spend money on something like a furnace when a bigger water heater may do the trick as well.

 

[Fastback]

I am curious, I have a 720sf slab with 11' ceilings and I have a tiny water heater and use approximately 6 gallons of RV antifreeze to keep the shop at 65º. I cant remember the KW hours off the top of my head, but its about $100 a month in Jan, but I am in Indy and you are like in the arctic circle compared to that..

Does your small water heater have one or two elements? If it has two did you strap them together so it could handle the return temperature differential? (Deta-T)? And what is the temp going into the floor and coming out of the floor?

Post a pic of the system and lets figure this out, I'm no pro, but I am captain cheap and while my system is not state of the art, it works killer and whats on the wall costs under $500 for everything.

 

[anthony666]

hey darryl, if i was you i'd install a decent sized, propane powered, vented tankless water heater and i'd plumb it in so that it used your water tank as a buffer/storage tank for your infloor system .. use your aquastat to trigger an inline pump to get your tankless fired up when your tank temp drops .. you can leave the water heater wired up to the panel in case you run out of propane

ive done this a few times and it works great

if you can draw a schematic of how you're plumbed now i can show you how to modify it

hope this helps

 

[Dragster Racer]

Not to be a wise guy, but you are saying that your electric water heater costs a lot to heat, and the plan could be to get a bigger electric water heater? I like the lp water heater idea. I don't like anything about the ventless idea...nothing.
If you are giving up on the floor heat, then there are all sorts of vented lp heaters you can go with.

 

[tdkkart]

Darryl, the problem I have here is that looking back through your posts, you have been complaining about your radiant floor system for 3 years. We have told you over and over that your heat source is not large enough, it does not put out enough heat plain and simple.
3 years later you have not done anything about the size of your original heater and you are back here asking the same questions.

There is nothing wrong with your in floor system other than you do not have enough heat input. It will work fine if you put a larger heat source in the system. Larger meaning more heat output, not neccesarily larger water volume.
A 50 gallon Propane water heater should have a 75,000btu burner under it, 5 times what you have now.
We have suggested a 14KW Hydro Shark more than once which is almost 3 times what you have now.

All you have to do is follow the advice that you have already been given...........

 

[caper150]

TD your right, I just need to get either one of those items and then leave it be. I guess when I had that conversation with that gentleman it got me to thinking. But here is the next question, I want to keep it at 60-70 in the shop because I paint in there, will either of those keep it there, would I be able to run it off of a couple 100 LB tanks or would I need a larger tank.

Anthony thanks for your help I do like your ideas as well.

 

[anthony666]

you're very welcome sir

a pound of propane contains potentially 22000 btu's @ 100% efficiency if memory serves .. you need to calculate your heat loss to figure out how many btu's you need to maintain your desired temperature, then factor in your heat sources rated efficiency give or take .. of course that all goes out the window (no pun intended) if you're opening up overhead doors and such .. i think if i were you i'd look into a larger tank to cut down on delivery costs and keep from running low

you could also plumb in an air handler for quick room temp recovery .. a fella with a mind for budget could make one very easily with an old car rad and a squirrel cage fan

 

[Fastback]

Fwiw my cheap insta hot water heater just uses two of the large elements found in a tank style water heater, so I would be curious if your existing tank heater could just be upgraded with two larger elements to keep up with demand?

 

[caper150]

Well I just got back from town and was looking at the different water heaters and hydro sharks and what not. I guess my biggest worry is that a LP or eletric water heaters are not going to cut down much on my cost? I can get NG plumbed to the shop and do a used boiler that there seem to be plenty of on craigslist for cheaper that what I have been considering. such as
http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/for/2631643064.html

 

[koditten]

I went the used boiler route as well. If you have someone in the heating biz that can check it out for you, you will be well ahead money wise. I have to be honest here, from your posts, you only sound a bit more than novice when it comes to working with heating systems and radiant floor systems.

There is nothing wrong with a used boiler, people are changing out perfectly good boilers for forced air systems all the time. Please spend a bit of time and money to have a pro check out the boiler beforehand if at all possible.

As for going the route of a boiler, you can't do better than a boiler when it comes to floor heating systems. Thats what they are designed to do.

When you do find a boiler that has your requirements...proper amount of BTUs, venting, controls...that sort of thing, don't be afraid to low ball the seller. The only ones buying used boiler are guys like us that want cheap heating units for our shops. I got my 75k unit that was 3 years old for 300 bucks. The seller was first asking 900 and I told him 300. he jumped on it.