Construction cost sanity check: western mass

[sansbury]

Finally starting to get pricing back from my builder and it’s eye-popping.

Project is a ~1200sqft four-season garage in western Mass.

The one that’s blowing my mind is he’s saying close to 250K to frame it, and that’s not including the roof trusses. All the other items—excavation, concrete, electrical, etc.—seem more like what I’d expect.

But the framing seems insane to me for what’s a straightforward building. All in, it’s currently looking like 500-600K to finish this where I was expecting more like 400. It’s just a rectangular box with 8’ framing over 2’ cement foundation walls to give a 10’ inside height.

I’ve worked with this guy on two interior reno projects and he didn’t jerk me around, knows his stuff, does quality work and brings in very good subs. I know building in Mass is wicked expensive but this is my first real structure project so I don’t know what things *should* cost.

 

[Youngandfree]

What's the other bids like? What kind of construction and finish are you talking about?

 

[sansbury]

I haven’t shopped this around yet. It’s a nightmare getting builders to return calls out here. Last I checked most were booking out 12-18 months, at least the better recommended ones.

Fit and finish wise nothing fancy. He is specing the framing as 2x6s and some other things that add a few K here and there but seem like good calls. If the difference between a high quality building and an OK one is 30-40K, I’ll pay.

Im just having a hard time with the framing because everything I’ve looked at online is saying like 10-20 per foot, and even applying a generous amount for materials doesn’t bring me close.

 

[LOW1]

Finally starting to get pricing back from my builder and it’s eye-popping.

Project is a ~1200sqft four-season garage in western Mass.

The one that’s blowing my mind is he’s saying close to 250K to frame it, and that’s not including the roof trusses. All the other items—excavation, concrete, electrical, etc.—seem more like what I’d expect.

But the framing seems insane to me for what’s a straightforward building. All in, it’s currently looking like 500-600K to finish this where I was expecting more like 400. It’s just a rectangular box with 8’ framing over 2’ cement foundation walls to give a 10’ inside height.

I’ve worked with this guy on two interior reno projects and he didn’t jerk me around, knows his stuff, does quality work and brings in very good subs. I know building in Mass is wicked expensive but this is my first real structure project so I don’t know what things *should* cost.

Thats for 12000 square feet, not 1200?

All what you can do is shop around, no?

 

[mike93lx]

Maybe hit up Ken's Karpentry in VT. Garages are his thing and he's pretty solid on price.

He has a YouTube channel where he posts full builds and pricing.

250k for framing is crazy pants ****

 

[DonovanSpeed]

That’s nuts. I’m near Keene NH and a few years ago (pre massive inflation) I was getting quotes for a 30x40 barn with a 12 pitch roof and rafters not trusses for $70-100k. That didn’t include electrical or concrete and bare walls inside.

I’d definitely get some bids. Also a Morton building is always a good option.

 

[Youngandfree]

Maybe kit up Ken's Karpentry in VT. Garages are his thing and he's pretty solid on price.

He has a YouTube channel where he posts full builds and pricing.

250k for framing is crazy pants ****

That's the I don't want to do it price.

 

[PCustoms]

Where in western MA?

I'll come down and do it for $125k

 

[mike93lx]

Where in western MA?

I'll come down and do it for $125k

**** I'll drive up and do it for 120k

 

[sansbury]

That's the I don't want to do it price.

fair enough... I'm going to ask him a few more questions to make sure I'm not missing something here. I just haven't done anything like this since I was 18 many years ago working for a GC so I have a poor sense of what a job like this ought to cost, and God knows everything in this state costs a fortune.

 

[35Ford]

That sounds nuts. A builder we work with is putting up a small ranch for around 300K.
How western MA are you?

 

[PCustoms]

**** I'll drive up and do it for 120k

Yeah, but I actually know what I'm doing.

 

[mike93lx]

Yeah, but I actually know what I'm doing.

Ha! I've built a shed

 

[jollygreengiant]

Finally starting to get pricing back from my builder and it’s eye-popping.

Project is a ~1200sqft four-season garage in western Mass.

The one that’s blowing my mind is he’s saying close to 250K to frame it, and that’s not including the roof trusses. All the other items—excavation, concrete, electrical, etc.—seem more like what I’d expect.

But the framing seems insane to me for what’s a straightforward building. All in, it’s currently looking like 500-600K to finish this where I was expecting more like 400. It’s just a rectangular box with 8’ framing over 2’ cement foundation walls to give a 10’ inside height.

I’ve worked with this guy on two interior reno projects and he didn’t jerk me around, knows his stuff, does quality work and brings in very good subs. I know building in Mass is wicked expensive but this is my first real structure project so I don’t know what things *should* cost.

Those figures for a 1,200 sq ft shop are insane, that's over $450/sq ft! That's what it costs to build higher end houses around here. For a basic square shop you should be well under $150/sq ft, maybe closer to $100.

 

[tom in nh]

Maybe try Morton Building instead?

 

[zak77]

Wow, did you hire Wright Builders?? Even they arent that expensive. I just looked at a permit for a 5,000sq ft garage being built and that had a cost of $300K so if your builder wants $250k for framing, then well i'm sure you can guess what's up.

 

[Captain_Slow]

This definitely sounds insane, what is he framing it with, silver 2x6s?

I was right around $55 a square foot (in late 2022) for site prep, empty barn, and concrete floor, plus demo of an existing building.

 

[firebirdparts]

Framing is very very cheap stuff and it's not even unpleasant work. So I don't know what's going on there.

$400/sq ft is mansion pricing on a finished house. You must know that.

Also, the concept of "Framing doesn't include the trusses" is not meaningful. A garage is just 4 walls and a roof. I'm a total amateur and in a building that size I'd be done in a couple of days. Trusses are not expensive, I guess he just didn't want to throw out a number.

Here's an idea. Volunteer with Habitat for Humanity during a blitz week. What they do on the first day is more effort that you'd have in that garage. You may decide to do it yourself and save $250,000.

 

[sansbury]

Those figures for a 1,200 sq ft shop are insane, that's over $450/sq ft!

He initially told me to expect 300-400/ft versus 700-800 for residential construction around here.

The building will be insulated and sheetrocked inside, with plenty of lighting/power and running water, possibly a full bath. If you added a few interior walls and windows it would pretty much be a house. So I expect it to cost more than a pole barn.

We also need to do a full 4' frost wall, and with the amount of excavation and fill required (I'm on a sloped lot), it made sense to build it with a partial basement. I'm basically trading fill for concrete, and getting more floor space in the process.

I suspect materials alone will be well north of $100/ft.

 

[Slowboat]

He initially told me to expect 300-400/ft versus 700-800 for residential construction around here.

The building will be insulated and sheetrocked inside, with plenty of lighting/power and running water, possibly a full bath. If you added a few interior walls and windows it would pretty much be a house. So I expect it to cost more than a pole barn.

We also need to do a full 4' frost wall, and with the amount of excavation and fill required (I'm on a sloped lot), it made sense to build it with a partial basement. I'm basically trading fill for concrete, and getting more floor space in the process.

I suspect materials alone will be well north of $100/ft.

Totally understand that, but those are all outside of the framing costs, which are bonkers high if we understand correctly.

 

[sansbury]

Totally understand that, but those are all outside of the framing costs, which are bonkers high if we understand correctly.

Definitely.

 

[ericm]

I got a quote last summer for a 1650 sq ft shop here in super expensive too-close-to-Silicon-Valley. 12' walls, stick built, 2x6s. The framing part was $60.5k. That's not roof or siding or anything else, just framing. This is from a builder I trust who was trying to make a good bid. Home building costs here are similar to the numbers you gave if not a bit worse.

250 for framing sounds so high that it must be a mistake. Wouldn't the "go away" or "you're rich" prices be 20% or whatever high on everything instead of astronomically high on one item?

 

[Natty Bumppo]

A quarter million dollars for a basic 30x40 with a 10' ceiling and that doesn't include a roof? Let me guess....you're in Lenox or Williamstown? Maybe Stockbridge?

Like the others have said, that's insane.

 

[LOW1]

Your shed, your $$$.
But $500,000 for a 1200 square foot garage should never happen.

 

[sansbury]

250 for framing sounds so high that it must be a mistake. Wouldn't the "go away" or "you're rich" prices be 20% or whatever high on everything instead of astronomically high on one item?

I would think. Like I said, I've done other projects with this guy (all interior, smaller scale) and he was at the high end of medium priced, and did the job right. It's odd.

Let me guess....you're in Lenox or Williamstown? Maybe Stockbridge?

Winner winner, $100 per person chicken dinner...

 

[purplezr2]

You don't mention anything about finishes or mechanical systems

I have a build that is 3x the size, and will be well under 200k when finished. It is a steel sized building, with spray foam and steel interior.

Do you have a more detailed description of you build?

 

[sansbury]

Do you have a more detailed description of you build?

Forgive the goofy photo but wanted to give a sense of the site and what I'm doing.

Basically we're demoing the existing structure and building a replacement that's about 20' longer and shifted ~15' south (towards the lower LH corner) to give the required 25' setback. The existing building is non-conforming and I can use the footprint, but I can't expand it without a variance which I've been told would be hard to get. I still might try for aesthetic reasons but zoning... enough said.



Since we have to do a decent amount of terraforming no matter what, I asked to price this out with a basement section covering (IIRC) the back 18' or so to get another ~500' of floor space. The lower drawing is showing the foundation and frost walls as well as a bit of the grade/landscaping (dashed line).



In terms of finishes I am looking for something similar to match the house on the exterior. Interior just basic finish, insulation and sheetrock. Electrician is quoting a 200A panel though it will be only 100A to start (I need to upgrade the house, first) and plenty of outlets/runs for overhead lighting. I really want to have a sink, full bath if the cost isn't outrageous. Probably a heat pump for HVAC.

 

[PCustoms]

What exactly are you supposed to get for $250k?

 

[jd_1138]

$250k?!?! That's the "I have plenty of work and don't need the money, but if he's willing to pay me 4 times the fair price I'm game!" price.

 

[jonesg]

Finally starting to get pricing back from my builder and it’s eye-popping.

Project is a ~1200sqft four-season garage in western Mass.

The one that’s blowing my mind is he’s saying close to 250K to frame it, and that’s not including the roof trusses. All the other items—excavation, concrete, electrical, etc.—seem more like what I’d expect.

But the framing seems insane to me for what’s a straightforward building. All in, it’s currently looking like 500-600K to finish this where I was expecting more like 400. It’s just a rectangular box with 8’ framing over 2’ cement foundation walls to give a 10’ inside height.

I’ve worked with this guy on two interior reno projects and he didn’t jerk me around, knows his stuff, does quality work and brings in very good subs. I know building in Mass is wicked expensive but this is my first real structure project so I don’t know what things *should* cost.

maybe the project is bigger than he is.

 

[mike93lx]

What exactly are you supposed to get for $250k?

Things that can't be acknowledged publicly, I hope

 

[Natty Bumppo]

Winner winner, $100 per person chicken dinner...

LOL. Yeah...had a feeling.

I'm up in Savoy. To put it in perspective, I just finished a roughly 30x40 garage....12' ceilings, 2nd story attic trusses, cement slab, site work, heat, insulation, electric, AND a used Rotary lift and I have about $40k invested. Except for the cement slab I did all of the work myself. Even if you triple the price for labor, you're still only looking at $120 which is what a few of the other members quoted.

 

[sansbury]

Well, for anybody curious about this, after hearing from all of you I went out and started reaching out to a couple more builders and am waiting on some additional quotes.

I did sit down with my original guy today to talk to him, and he confessed up front that the framing quote was cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs. He had the sub do a detailed breakdown, which had around $180K of material costs, and over $100K in labor. He went and had the local yard work up a full materials package separately and arrived at about $40K to cover almost everything except concrete, so there's no question the original framer's quote is wildly off. He is going to sit down with him again and ask wtf?, and is also conversing with some other guys who might be able to pick the job up to see if he can come in at a more reasonable number.

Either way he said he knows the original number was nuts and knew after that I'd be shopping the job around.

He did mention that the big challenge right now is that locally there is such a backlog of large houses and multi-family projects that small, one-off projects like mine are less enticing. As a result the builders know they can ask absolute top dollar. I'll see where the next round of quotes comes in....

 

[sansbury]

On the off chance anybody finds this thread in a search, I ended up finding a contractor who bid about 230K all in to do the job. My original guy did eventually find a much more reasonable framer, but in the end he told me to take the other guy's quote as he didn't think he could do it for under 300K. We are hoping to break ground in early May.

 

[mike93lx]

On the off chance anybody finds this thread in a search, I ended up finding a contractor who bid about 230K all in to do the job. My original guy did eventually find a much more reasonable framer, but in the end he told me to take the other guy's quote as he didn't think he could do it for under 300K. We are hoping to break ground in early May.

That's a bit scary. I hope it turns out well

 

[sansbury]

I'm cautiously optimistic I found a good one. Very young guy (late 20s maybe?) who has worked for others since his teens, decided to hang his own shingle out last year. He struck me as very smart, mature, and professional, returns messages promptly, always shows up on time, etc. I asked for references and he gave me one for a homeowner a few miles away who had a very similar project and gave him a glowing review.

I've interviewed probably 1000 people for jobs at my company over the past 10 years, so I have developed a decent sense for BS and phonies. The one sub of his that I've met (framer) so far also gave me a good vibe and in my experience the quality of the subs tends to say a lot about the quality of the GC. There's so much work out here they can afford to be picky.

 

[mike93lx]

I'm cautiously optimistic I found a good one. Very young guy (late 20s maybe?) who has worked for others since his teens, decided to hang his own shingle out last year. He struck me as very smart, mature, and professional, returns messages promptly, always shows up on time, etc. I asked for references and he gave me one for a homeowner a few miles away who had a very similar project and gave him a glowing review.

I've interviewed probably 1000 people for jobs at my company over the past 10 years, so I have developed a decent sense for BS and phonies. The one sub of his that I've met (framer) so far also gave me a good vibe and in my experience the quality of the subs tends to say a lot about the quality of the GC. There's so much work out here they can afford to be picky.

Control the flow of money well and you will hopefully end up OK.

Real in person reviews are key. If someone doesn't cultivate good reviews, they have no chance.

Share info as you go, we love that stuff


I did a pool build two years ago and really enjoyed using a go pro for time.lapse video. I still need to edit it down, but it was fun documenting the process

 

[sansbury]

Control the flow of money well and you will hopefully end up OK.

Yeah. His bid has things staged into 6 or 7 payments as specific milestones are completed, and was fairly detailed. So things seem well aligned there.

 

[nadogail]

When you get proposals that make you say OMG, your next question should be WTF? Satisfaction comes from knowing that you are being given “Straight Answers” even if you don’t like the answers you are being given.

Second Opinions are good until you are unable to make the decision, just because you don’t like the answers.

 

[nicholsmf]

That pricing seems crazy to me. I built my 1,380 sqft shop at what seemed to be the height of Covid prices increases. I ended up right at $90K total. That included the dirt work, footers, 6 inch concrete slab, 12ft block walls, 200A service and all interior electrical, trusses 16" on center, shingles, heat and air, drywall ceiling, etc. etc. I know I'm in East TN things are cheaper here, but still.