Construction gurus: Help adding-on to existing garage, ideas needed (pictures!)

[Justin311]

Hi all,

Hoping you all can give me some direction to my project, based on the following pics. I am in the middle of purchasing a home with an existing 2 car garage, with a "bonus room" above the garage.

I want to add a 3rd car bay/shop attached to the existing garage, and a second "bonus room" - basically build a duplicate of "garage/room" structure that is existing (see picture), however a little narrower (~14ft wide +/- depending on setbacks with property line). I would like to join the two "bonus rooms" into one room above all three bays. My desires are:

-Able to fit a lift in the 3rd bay. I haven't measured but I beleive the existing garage ceilings are 10'... but would like 12' for the lift
-I would like to extend the garage deeper than the existing 2 bays (see aerial view of house to see how first 2 bays are shallower than the house itself)
-Add a rollup garage to the back of the 3rd bay so I have access from the back of the house
-Keep overall look of home consistent
-Minimize cost

The problems I would like help with are:
-How to best orient the elevation of the 3rd bay with respect to the other 2 bays - can I dig down 12-24" so there is a "step down" to the third bay? That would give me the add'l ceiling height needed for my lift.
-How can I acheive the backyard rollup door given the basement setup, without having to grade the dirt behind it? I really want to only use it for yard equipment like lawn tractor/etc. Can I have a "step down" in the garage? Is that even possible?
-Can I join the two "bonus rooms" into a large room? How would that work being that its the end of the house? Super $$? (yes, I lack framing education? )
-Any rough, ROUGH idea of cost to the point of drywall? I have a tough time estimating cost based on $ per sq/ft because there are so many weird angles and half is garage/half living space. I have done lots of interior finishing myself in my other houses, but wouldn't try grading/concrete/framing, so will finish the interiors myself. I hope I can do it ALL including the interior finishing and lift/install for under $50k.

Just to set everybodys minds at ease, I will be hiring out all work, however I want to be completely educated on what is possible before I start getting bids/ideas from contractors.

I also apologize for the lack of picture angles - the house is a foreclosure and the existing tenants are not exactly willing to show the house much, I'm tryhing to get back in to take measurements and more pics but this is all I have to work with now.

Any input is appreciated, I'm new to all of this!

 

[bmwpower]

I, personally, would keep the addition at the same level as the existing house. Dropping it down is gonna induce steps all over the place and I hate steps. I would offset it from the original fascade to give it depth - either forward or backward. You might also consider turning the addition either 90 degress or 45 degrees, but that will greatly change the look of the house.

To get ceiling heigh for your lift, get creative with the ceiling thru use of trusses, etc. You can make it fit and still maintain the same level with the rest of the house.

Because of the above, you're going to have to grade the back of the house in order to make use of a rollup door on the backside. Do you plan on driving cars through the back rollup door? Or just the yard tractor? Hard to say if it's feasible without specifics in height here and there, but it looks like it wouldn't be too much dirt.

Joining the bonus rooms should be a no brainer.

I think you could do it for $50k.

 

[tomroblee]

What you are wanting to do sounds like a real challenge!! With enough money, you can do anything.

The first thing I noticed was what appears to be the electric meter on the end wall of the existing garage--with buried service. The main electrical panel is probably located inside the garage on the same end wall. The incoming electric service is probably buried under where you want to put the garage addition and/or where you would need to widen the existing driveway in order to be able to enter the third bay. If you need to move the electric service and main electrical panel, it could be a very major expense.

The next major question is to what degree the end wall of the existing garage and bonus room are load bearing. Removing a load bearing wall is going to be much more expensive that removing a non-load bearing wall.

I don't see much alternative to lowering the garage floor in the garage addition if you want a heigher ceiling in the garage and keep the same floor level in the bonus room above the garage. You can use special trusses to expand ceiling heights, but not if there is a room above.

The fact that the dormer in the existing dormer room seems to be centered over the width of the garage is going to make it difficult to keep things "looking right" with your addition. It would look a bit strange if the additional didn't have a dormer, but you aren't adding enough width for a matching sized dormer.

The pictures don't give me enough idea of the slope in the back yard to understand the problems with adding a rolling door in the back of the garage addition. You say that you want to extend the garage addition further back than the existing garage, but don't mention the desired effect on the bonus room above. If you are just trying to create more space for your lawn and garden equipment, it might be much easier to just make a separate single story lean-to addition to the back of the house at whatever level works out the best.

For what you are wanting to do, it might be the easiest to just consider tearing off the bonus room above the existing garage and starting from scratch in designing a second floor over the expanded garage.

I have no idea of the costs. I would imagine that costs depend on your location and what issues you will have with obtaining any necessary permits.

 

[boseefus402]

My thoughts on how to do it would be to not mess with the end wall, leave it there and just tear off the siding and make a internal door between the two garages. I like the idea of recessing it back some to give it some depth. I don't think I would step it down, regrading would be better. You could match your current roof slope with the adjacent roof so you have plenty of room for a lift, or put in a bonus loft in the middle section of the garage. If this is a shop more than a garage with constant cars in and out, you could put giant french doors on the front instead of a roll-up door and make it look dual purpose for resale.

As someone else pointed out already, your meter would have to move which probably means your main box will move also which really blows.

 

[Doug B]

Here's my take:

-Drop the floor down 2' to get the required ceiling height
-Keep the front wall flush with existing garage
-Bump the rear wall out for extra depth
-Forget the drive thru idea-too much grade to deal with.You will have enough room
to drive lawn equipment around the new garage.
-Match the frame up details of the bonus room and connect the two. If the roof is stick
framed,removing the gable wall should not be a problem. No dormer on the addition.
-Connect the two garage spaces with a man door and landing/steps down. There is
most likely a beam across the center of the existing garage,parallel to the door wall.
There will be a load bearing post under this beam in the wall. This should be your only
load bearing issue in the end wall.

Good luck with the project! Keep us updated.

 

[Justin311]

Wow! Thanks for all the input guys, you have given me a lot of information to sift through and understand, and some great ideas. This board is awesome! So given the feedback I can definitely come to some quick conclusions:

1. The meter will have to be moved. I didn't know if it could stay where it is and be "built around". That *****. Any ballpark ideas how much that will cost to move it and the buried? That sounds $$$

2. I can definitely live with a man door inbetween the garages, and steps down are no problem. I dont plan to move anything inbetween and of course I can just put up the garage door if necessary.

3. Man door between the bonus rooms is an option, but I would much prefer to adjoin them. Purpose of the second bonus room is a media/rec room. You think a 14' wide rec room with the dormer in the front would be usable?

4. Doug mentiond that I shouldn't use a dormer on the additional bonus room. Wouldnt it look funny with a dormer next to it? Anybody ever seen something similar? Any way to remove the Dormer from the existing structure? I like the idea of demo'ing the existing bonus room and making one big room....but that might be $$$ out of my budget. Other input?

5. Cars will definitely be moved in and out regularly - so can't do the french doors. Do need the room above the garage for recreation, so no loft But that would have been a good idea!

 

[Charles (in GA)]

You will not be happy with 14 ft wide and a lift. What you will have is a lift bay, basically that is all.

Charles

 

[blkhonda1991]

how much room do you have to the right to actually build on?

 

[Fiberglass Fred]

I suspect adjoining the 2 rooms upstairs will be a breeze. It depends on how it's framed, but chances are the only thing that end wall is holding up is itself.

Is the main breaker inside the garage just on the other side of that meter? If so, I'd expect at least $3k to move it all.

Here's my take:

-Drop the floor down 2' to get the required ceiling height
-Keep the front wall flush with existing garage
-Bump the rear wall out for extra depth
-Forget the drive thru idea-too much grade to deal with.You will have enough room
to drive lawn equipment around the new garage.
-Match the frame up details of the bonus room and connect the two. If the roof is stick
framed,removing the gable wall should not be a problem. No dormer on the addition.
-Connect the two garage spaces with a man door and landing/steps down. There is
most likely a beam across the center of the existing garage,parallel to the door wall.
There will be a load bearing post under this beam in the wall. This should be your only
load bearing issue in the end wall.

Good luck with the project! Keep us updated.

I agree with everything you said, especially the part about skipping the ramp out the back. It sounds like a lot of problems to avoid driving around the side.

 

[Justin311]

You will not be happy with 14 ft wide and a lift. What you will have is a lift bay, basically that is all.

Charles

right now I have a 14l x 7w bay to work on my back under jackstands. Trust me, I'll be ecstatic with "just" a lift bay lol.

I will build to the full width allowed, but it's looking like 14 feet is all I have

 

[Justin311]

I suspect adjoining the 2 rooms upstairs will be a breeze. It depends on how it's framed, but chances are the only thing that end wall is holding up is itself.

Is the main breaker inside the garage just on the other side of that meter? If so, I'd expect at least $3k to move it all.


I agree with everything you said, especially the part about skipping the ramp out the back. It sounds like a lot of problems to avoid driving around the side.

thanks for the ballpark

it's not to just avoid driving.... There will be a lift in constant use and often a car parked under the lift also (very small race cars). Many times non running. The back door would let me access the whole back half ofnthebgarahe without moving whatevers on/under the lift....

 

[Justin311]

Is the main breaker inside the garage just on the other side of that meter? If so, I'd expect at least $3k to move it all..

I suspect it is, hopefully will get in to confirm this weekend.

Assuming it is, can I just have the meter/buried cable moved? Or do I have to move the breaker box as well? There is no reason I would wnat to move the breaker box if I dont have to....I would prefer to just leave the box where it is and leave at least part or all of the existing wall there.

 

[autoist]

How tall is the ceiling in the existing garage?

 

[Justin311]

It looked to be 9-10ft but I have yet to be able to measure it, hopefully saturday. I know all this info is *necessary* to get accurate help, but due to the financial situation I have to get this all planned out, loan ready to go, etc, just before closing.

 

[autoist]

My garage is 11'4" & there's plenty of room for a lift....so, you might have enough height by just adding on at existing slab level......getting inside the garage to measure os the first thing you need to do.

 

[Justin311]

Forgive me if I'm slow....but if the existing slab height and existing second level floor result in an existing garage ceiling height of 10', how would I end up with more in the addition? Or are you saying that 10' is plenty? My last house was 10' so I know I can technically fit a lift, but if I have my wrangler or my SUV on there I wont be able to work comfortably so I would prefer 11-12'. 10 is just too short.

 

[tomroblee]

You really didn't say whether the ability to build the addition you want will make or break your purchase of the house. If it is a major factor in your decision, you need to explore all the factors involved.

The need to move the electric service/meter is one I already mentioned. When possible, most builders will put the service panel as close to the meter as possible (generally opposite sides of the same wall). Obviously, all the electrical circuits branch from the service panel. From an electrician's viewpoint, it would be a pain to have to run all the branch circuits to the house from the far side of the garage. You may be lucky and find that the main service panel is on the "house" side of the garage. If this is the case, there would only be the service entrance cables to reroute, and the service panel wouldn't have to be relocated. Generally, the local electric utility likes to install the service entrance wires to their side of the meter. They should be able to give you some estimate of what they would charge for their part of the the move. You should also consider whether the existing electrical service is sufficient to meet your needs if you intend to use any high amperage equipment in your garage. If you have to move your electric service, it's the perfect time to upgrade it as well.

You also need to research what else may be buried under your proposed addition and the expanded driveway that would be needed to use the addition. It looks like there are some other small wires near the electric meter. Maybe there is a telephone or TV cable that would have to be rerouted? (These should be less expensive issues). If the house has gas service, where is it located? How about water, sewer, or septic lines? Are there any utility easements or other restrictions on that side of the lot?

The picture shows the downspout from one corner of the house going into the gutter on the front of the garage. The downspout from the garage seems to go down the corner of the garage where you are planning your addition. This is another minor issue to consider.

Removing the existing dormer on your present bonus room (if you decide to go this route) shouldn't be much of an issue or very expensive.

Are the existing garage and bonus room heater and cooled? Will you want your addition heated and cooled? Have you considered whether major changes will need to be made to the existing heating and cooling to meet your needs?

 

[Justin311]

You really didn't say whether the ability to build the addition you want will make or break your purchase of the house.

No, I'll buy it either way, but would be very sad if I was stuck with that garage

You may be lucky and find that the main service panel is on the "house" side of the garage. If this is the case, there would only be the service entrance cables to reroute, and the service panel wouldn't have to be relocated.

I'm not following this portion...assuming the panel and the meter are on the same wall (given the area and type of constuction I'm pretty sure it is), if I simply put a man door inbetween the exisitng garage and my new addition garage, why do I have to relocate the service panel? I understand the meter and incoming lines will have to be moved and rerouted, but that shouldn't affect the service panel...only the main lines going to it. Unless I'm missing something...then please educate me

You also need to research what else may be buried under your proposed addition and the expanded driveway that would be needed to use the addition. It looks like there are some other small wires near the electric meter. Maybe there is a telephone or TV cable that would have to be rerouted? (These should be less expensive issues). If the house has gas service, where is it located? How about water, sewer, or septic lines? Are there any utility easements or other restrictions on that side of the lot?

All excellent points I did not consider....I will be sure to call all the "dig lines" and have them come out and locate their runs.

Are the existing garage and bonus room heater and cooled? Will you want your addition heated and cooled? Have you considered whether major changes will need to be made to the existing heating and cooling to meet your needs?

I'm an HVAC engineer and major HVAC mfg sales rep by trade, so that won't be an issue For the record, I plan to condition the bonus room, but not the garage. IF possible and affordable, I will run IR heat in the floor of the garage.

 

[Justin311]

OK, so pretty good news all around, was able to get into the house today and took measurements and pics. Turns out I can build over a lot further than I thought, so structure will basically be an EXACT duplicate of the existing garage/bonus room, but HOPEFULLY I can dig down 24" down and extend the back wall approx 4'.

Existing garage is 20'W x 20'D x 10' ceiling. I'm hoping to build the add-on about 20'W x 24'D x 12' ceiling. The extra 4' depth will depend on how much it will cost to add the $$$ fill dirt, as it is graded level pad (20'x20') even with the existing garage and then has a decent slope down. I plan to put a double man door thru the existing wall and leave the breaker box where it is.

I hope to have the electric co place the meter on the NEW end wall of the "second garage", and extend the main leads back to the EXISTING breaker box in the interior "original" wall. Is that a legitimate way to do it? Still think about $3k or less if I dont move the box itself?

Given that there is now extra square footage, any ideas on cost/sq ft I could expect for the two spaces? Garage will be 480 sqft and finished upstairs will be 480 sqft. Driveway will match existing asphalt drive and will be about 50'L x 20'W.

Any help or guidance is appreciated!

(looking up slope that will have to be backfilled to make garage 4' deeper):

 

[Justin311]

And for the lift gurus, How usable is a 2 poster in a 10' garage? 90% of the time I'll be working on small 2 seater coupes so no biggie. But every once in a while my jeep or Armada will be on it for maintenance. I would REALLY like to have 12' height for those occasions, and for extra headroom while working on the 2 seaters.

But I'm also doing this on a semi-tight budget, so how much more do you all think digging down 2' will cost me? Is backfilling for the 4' deeper more expensive than the 2' down, if I could afford one or the other?

Decisions, decisions!

 

[smedly]

Not to hijack,

I'll be working on small 2 seater coupes so no biggie. But every once in a while my jeep or Armada will be on it

+ username Justin311=

one of these perhaps?

 

[Daniel Dudley]

I think you are ready to talk to a designer/builder, an architect or engineer.

Looks very buildable. Landscape between the two drives with a little step down by the building and hedges or plants between the grade split. I have a split level floor plan between my 26x30 and my 26x22. It is not a problem.

 

[Justin311]

By "split level" you mean a step down from one garage grade to the other? When I think of split level I think of steps down to one and steps up to the other, with an entrance in the middle

 

[pattenp]

First of all, a clear floor two post lift will not fit with 10' ceiling, so you're limited to the models with the lines running under a plate on the floor. You will be looking at a max lifting height of around 50" to 60" depending on the vechicle. So you will be losing around 20" of lift. But that's better than no lift. It's not a show stopper, just makes it a little uncomfortable doing some things with being hunched over.

 

[Justin311]

I used to work at a shop that had nothing but floor plates....not sure why they bother people so much? But yeah I'm OK with that, Being hunched over is much better than laying on my back Hopefully I can dig down and get an extra foot or two to help out!

 

[OccupantRJ]

Looking at your pictures, and considering the budget, could you not move your planned addition face back just past the meter, keeping the same garage depth you have planned? Step the entire roof back? Keep the roof aligned, and provide a front overhang to allow the meter to still be outside? You would lose the continuous size of the upper room, with a roof setback, but not with an overhang. Everything is a tradeoff, unless you have money to burn. You could either fill in earth as needed to remain level, or dig out 24" and use the diggings to help backfill the needed area, could you not? I would also use rain runoff pans under the deck to turn the space into storage space, using the setback garage as one wall, making a nice storage alcove..

 

[Justin311]

I actually thought about setting the face back, but really, unless its outrageous ($5k+) to move the meter, its really the right thing to do. The overall look will be perfect if I move the meter, and if I dont, it skews everything including the upstairs. Damn meter placement *****

Is anybody able to answer my questions regarding moving the meter with respect to the service panel?

 

[OccupantRJ]

Unless there's a code issue, I don't see why you cannot just move the meter. Mine is not backed up to the panel. It's about 10 feet and 2 walls away from the panel. Think about what I said about keeping the rooflines aligned, but setting the face of the garage back, creating a porch-like front overhang. That would not disturb your bonus room plan.

RJ

 

[Justin311]

I will give it some thought. I just have a hard time imagining residential construction until I see it. I will keep everybody updated on the project...thanks for all the replies!

 

[OccupantRJ]

There is software for picturing what the house will look like finished, with a relatively small learning curve. Something like this, there are many.

http://www.plan3d.com/pages/home.as...t=homeDesign&gclid=COqsy-ShjJ8CFSMEswodBxDQRg

RJ

 

[Justin311]

That looks really great...but I have a hard time paying $16 for a month for something without even a trial. Is it worth it?

 

[OccupantRJ]

Not sure about that one. It was just one of many in a search.