Construction type, pole barn vs steel building?

[sardo_67]

I was looking around the forum for some old threads and didn’t see any.
Did I miss them?



I was looking for some info on pro/cons of each building type and rough costs.

I’ll be doing all the site prep and foundation work but will hire someone to put the actual structure up. Friend here in CT had one of the Amish built pole barns put up that was nice but I just want to look into all the options first.

 

[matt_i]

Steel as in tube-steel or red-iron? The difference there is pretty big.

Also the size of the building you are targeting is important as well.

 

[readhead]

There is no doubt in my mind that a pole barn would be less expensive. They are by concept designed to be cheap and fast and some would say, not permanent. Steel and lots more concrete are at the far, other end of the spectrum. Steel offers longer clear spans and more volume because there are no trusses. That may or may not be an advantage depending on size. Tube steel requires less equipment and is more DIY friendly but can be labor intensive depending on the supplier.

Matt makes a valid point about the building size. As the building gets larger steel can close the cost gap pretty quickly. I’m often confused by the people that build a pole barn because it is less expensive and then frame walls inside for insulation and a finished interior. At that point they probably used more material and labor than if they had stick framed the building.

Size vs budget will drive your decision. You didn’t mention the exterior finish but I presume you are comparing metal on all the options. There again material cost will affect the final price. For the same size building there will be a large difference between 29ga and 26ga.

 

[69supercj]

I would save my money and borrow the money needed to build with steel vs. a pole barn. I've got a pole barn style shop that was built in '90 and its still in good shape but I've been fighting roof leaks for the past 6 or 7 years and its been a pain in the ***. Granted you can still have leaks with a steel building but you dont have to worry about rot if you dont find them right away. Next shop I build will be steel.

 

[Skunkape]

When I looked at this, I decided to go with pole barn. My reasoning.. I was 45 years old at the time.... I won't be around in 50 years to worry about it.

 

[joey1320]

I would save my money and borrow the money needed to build with steel vs. a pole barn. I've got a pole barn style shop that was built in '90 and its still in good shape but I've been fighting roof leaks for the past 6 or 7 years and its been a pain in the ***. Granted you can still have leaks with a steel building but you dont have to worry about rot if you dont find them right away. Next shop I build will be steel.

22+ years of leak free roofing sounds good. Not saying I would welcome it but the dealership I work at, that was built in '07 to the supposedly tune of $11mil, has had about 7 leaks for the past two years.

 

[sardo_67]

Steel as in tube-steel or red-iron? The difference there is pretty big.

Also the size of the building you are targeting is important as well.

this is exactly why i am starting this thread or looking for older ones that discuss the pros and cons of each type along with costs.

i have seen 30x40 steel buildings advertised on Facebook for like 20k however i am guessing that is made with extremely cheap material.


i am many years away from building mine however i want to start doing research now so when the time comes i'll know what i want instead of figuring it out in a hurry

 

[theoldwizard1]

If you choose a pole building, you either want it on piers or Perma-Columns. There is nothing wrong with "built up"/laminated columns as long as the joints do NOT line up.

Also the top longitudinal beam on each side, called the truss carrier, should be set into the post, NOT through bolted to the face of the post. This is MUCH STRONGER !

 

[sardo_67]

If you choose a pole building, you either want it on piers or Perma-Columns. There is nothing wrong with "built up"/laminated columns as long as the joints do NOT line up.

Also the top longitudinal beam on each side, called the truss carrier, should be set into the post, NOT through bolted to the face of the post. This is MUCH STRONGER !

i don't understand most of that lol

if i went pole barn type i would have a regular foundation to anchor it to so no need for posts rotting or the need for concrete pillars if that is what you are talking about.

 

[readhead]

A pole barn in the classic sense has posts buried in the ground to provide lateral support to the walls. What you are talking about is a hybrid that uses post frame construction but placed on a more traditional foundation. There is a very fine line between the hybrid system and stick framing. The post construction is faster but if you end up framing walls inside for the interior finish you probably lost whatever cost advantage you had. You are also not getting the savings on concrete that a typical pole barn provides. If you are considering the hybrid system I would suggest that you stick frame the building.

 

[Norcal]

Can one compare the pressure treating for wood posts of the past compared to what is used now for pole barns?

In my opinion, a red iron building is the best choice, but not the most economical one.

 

[sardo_67]

Can one compare the pressure treating for wood posts of the past compared to what is used now for pole barns?

In my opinion, a red iron building is the best choice, but not the most economical one.

see that's what im looking at but i know "you get what you pay for" and prices are all over the place or "call for estimate". i am not buying any time soon so i don't want to take up their time and i also don't want them to constantly call me.

ideally i would love a real heavy duty commercial grade steel building, however i do have to be realistic on costs. i am ballpark expecting to spend around 200k on the building total. i have access to equipment so land prep, foundation/septic digging/prep will really only cost me fuel and time plus few other construction friends to hire for when the important stuff comes around.

i am just wondering what a rough price is. like this seems way too cheap here
https://www.ebay.com/i/142750819241?chn=ps
https://www.simpsonsteel.com/
http://www.americanbuildingoutlet.com/red-iron-buildings.html


ideally this here from GenSteel but not as big as it looks in the pic here
https://gensteel.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Barndominium-with-Gambrel-Roof.jpg

A pole barn in the classic sense has posts buried in the ground to provide lateral support to the walls. What you are talking about is a hybrid that uses post frame construction but placed on a more traditional foundation. There is a very fine line between the hybrid system and stick framing. The post construction is faster but if you end up framing walls inside for the interior finish you probably lost whatever cost advantage you had. You are also not getting the savings on concrete that a typical pole barn provides. If you are considering the hybrid system I would suggest that you stick frame the building.

ok so then just frame up walls and use trusses for a roof?

 

[Duker]

I have a pole barn which is a Barndominium (built by Morton) that has living space and my woodworking shop and a separate 40’ x 60’ red iron metal building for my welding, machine shop and storage. Both have their advantages and disadvantages. I went with a pole barn for the Barndominium as it was a better fit for the style, size (42’ x 80’ x 18’) and finish out I wanted for both living and shop spaces. The red iron shop building is still a work in progress but will just have plywood walls (added a steel girt at 8’ for minimal cost ) so it really comes down to use, finish out and budget and a key component....the quality of the contractor you can get for each.

 

[NUTTSGT]

There is no doubt in my mind that a pole barn would be less expensive. They are by concept designed to be cheap and fast and some would say, not permanent. Steel and lots more concrete are at the far, other end of the spectrum. Steel offers longer clear spans and more volume because there are no trusses. That may or may not be an advantage depending on size. Tube steel requires less equipment and is more DIY friendly but can be labor intensive depending on the supplier.

Matt makes a valid point about the building size. As the building gets larger steel can close the cost gap pretty quickly. I’m often confused by the people that build a pole barn because it is less expensive and then frame walls inside for insulation and a finished interior. At that point they probably used more material and labor than if they had stick framed the building.

Size vs budget will drive your decision. You didn’t mention the exterior finish but I presume you are comparing metal on all the options. There again material cost will affect the final price. For the same size building there will be a large difference between 29ga and 26ga.

The interior. How do you plan on finishing it ? Unless you plan on doing the complete build over a few years to spread the cost, I think you need to figure out what the intended use is.

What type of building style you choose, will dictate how much more work and cash it will take to finish the interior of the building, shop/garage/workshop or whatever your intended purpose.


Sardo,

fwiw, Redhead used to erect red-iron buildings, he is probably one of the more (if not the most) knowledgeable guys on the subject here at GJ that's willing to help and share his knowledge and experience.

Also, you might want to add that CT location to your profile for future reference.

 

[sardo_67]

The interior. How do you plan on finishing it ? Unless you plan on doing the complete build over a few years to spread the cost, I think you need to figure out what the intended use is.

What type of building style you choose, will dictate how much more work and cash it will take to finish the interior of the building, shop/garage/workshop or whatever your intended purpose.


Sardo,

fwiw, Redhead used to erect red-iron buildings, he is probably one of the more (if not the most) knowledgeable guys on the subject here at GJ that's willing to help and share his knowledge and experience.

Also, you might want to add that CT location to your profile for future reference.

Good idea, i changed it so it should display now.


thanks for the info and i will check it out, right now i don't know what i want, i know my end goal is to have more garage/shop than house but that's it lol.
i am researching the pros and cons of all the building types and i am liking the red iron the most right now.

 

[sardo_67]

is anyone on here in the new england area that i could talk to for ideas on this?

 

[cj7jeep81]

i don't understand most of that lol

if i went pole barn type i would have a regular foundation to anchor it to so no need for posts rotting or the need for concrete pillars if that is what you are talking about.

Perma-columns are pre-cast concrete "posts" that go in the ground, and the rest of the wooden posts is bolted to them. Adds a bit of cost, but then you have no wood in the ground to rot, and no pressure treated wood that you are screwing/nailing into (which is a bonus).

As for the truss carriers (usually a 2x10 or 2x12) ran perpendicular to the posts that the trusses sit on), many pole barns are built with them nailed onto the posts, and as long as the correct nails are used (at the correct spacing/number), its perfectly fine. Mine held up to 70mph straight line winds with no issue, and my dad's has been up for almost 30 years with 0 problems.

 

[sardo_67]

Perma-columns are pre-cast concrete "posts" that go in the ground, and the rest of the wooden posts is bolted to them. Adds a bit of cost, but then you have no wood in the ground to rot, and no pressure treated wood that you are screwing/nailing into (which is a bonus).

As for the truss carriers (usually a 2x10 or 2x12) ran perpendicular to the posts that the trusses sit on), many pole barns are built with them nailed onto the posts, and as long as the correct nails are used (at the correct spacing/number), its perfectly fine. Mine held up to 70mph straight line winds with no issue, and my dad's has been up for almost 30 years with 0 problems.

I've been doing a lot of research and watching among other things this guys videos here which seems to have the best of both worlds where he uses brackets bolted to the cement to attach the pole barn.

you can see them at 7:30 min mark

i'm still looking into all my options but learning a massive amount which is good

 

[cj7jeep81]

I've been doing a lot of research and watching among other things this guys videos here which seems to have the best of both worlds where he uses brackets bolted to the cement to attach the pole barn.

you can see them at 7:30 min mark

i'm still looking into all my options but learning a massive amount which is good

I'm not sure I see the benefit in that method, but I'm definitely no pro. One of the biggest benefits to pole buildings is you don't spend nearly as much money in excavation and concrete for the foundation. If you are going to have the foundation anyway, then it seems you just have the extra cost of posts and brackets vs traditional stick framing (especially if you plan to finish the inside).

 

[sardo_67]

I'm not sure I see the benefit in that method, but I'm definitely no pro. One of the biggest benefits to pole buildings is you don't spend nearly as much money in excavation and concrete for the foundation. If you are going to have the foundation anyway, then it seems you just have the extra cost of posts and brackets vs traditional stick framing (especially if you plan to finish the inside).

i forgot to mention he also does this on poured cylinders or piers (i forget the name) and will set them into the wet concrete or drill them like this.

i only meant to use this as a reference for attaching a pole barn to concrete or the ground that uses normal wood with no ground contact for rot issues.

i have also seen this method used for building on a slab floor in southern areas where frost isn't an issue or smaller shed types.

 

[cj7jeep81]

i forgot to mention he also does this on poured cylinders or piers (i forget the name) and will set them into the wet concrete or drill them like this.

i only meant to use this as a reference for attaching a pole barn to concrete or the ground that uses normal wood with no ground contact for rot issues.

i have also seen this method used for building on a slab floor in southern areas where frost isn't an issue or smaller shed types.

Perma-columns are commerically made, and do basically the same thing. Basically, the bottom 5' is pre-cast concrete the same dimensions as the post (so 4.5"x5.5" for triple 2x6), with a bracket cast into the concrete. The company I bought my lumber from attach the laminated posts (of the correct length) to the columns. Then you dig your holes as normal for the posts, and set them like any other post (albeit slightly heavier). Total cost increase was $100 per post (4 years ago for me), so more than traditional pole barn, but a lot cheaper than footers, and $0 in extra labor to install. Just another option, that seems to work well for me.