contractor payment delema

[ddjjeep]

OK, so I hired a local "handy man" (recomended by a friend) to do some sheetrocking for me. He came over and gave me a rough quote up front (he consider it a verbal agreement) and told me he charges by the hour. He also said he doesnt mind me helping, and what ever work I did, would be that much less he would have to do, thuss costing me less.
The work consisted of sheetrocking a 12'x16' ceiling (works out to 6 pieces of 4x8 drywall if you cant do the math). and sheetrocking another room entirely also 12'x16' with 8' walls and a small closet and hallway.
His quote was $2000-$1500 for labor (I bought all the materials) depending on how much I was able to help.
The problem is, He called saying he had a hurt back and wasnt going to make it over the first day he was scheduled to. So I started hanging the drywall. Well, It ended up with me hanging every piece of drywall.
All he had to do was come over and tape and mud and sand. Had a few minor fixes to do (where edges cracked and what-not, nothing major).
He spent 11 hours on just the ceiling of the first room and only got 1-2 coats of mud on it. (it looks like doo-dee).
He spent another 21.5 hours on the second room, it got 3+ coats of mud and was mostly finished.
I had to tell him to stop working because it was costing me too much and Im running out of money.
He did not do any sanding, I sanded it all out after he left. Also had to do a few more coats of mud in the hallway that still needs to be sanded.

So basicly he is charging me $1100+ for just his labor of putting up tape and mud in the two rooms, no haging drywall, no sanding or priming.
Everybody I talk to (both in the field of construction and people who have had similar work done) say he WAY overcharged me, and took far too long to complete what he did do.
Now he wants his money, but I am having a real hard time justifying paying him that much for what he did.

He did tell me up front his hourly rate, but I never imagined it would take him so long to do such a small job. I called him and told him I didnt agree with the amount he charged me, but he just said "thats what it works out to be, sorry"

I posted this on another board I use, and was looking for opinions here as well.
As a follow up, I had a few people give me quotes and told me I should be paying him about $500-$700, so I offered $700 to him and he refused and threatened to take me to small claims court.

any opinions?

 

[Luckydevil]

I'd get quotes from 3 other local guys in writing to do the same exact job he did and then pay him the middle amount. After that let him try to take you to small claims, I'm pretty sure the judge would just side with you. The verbal agreement you had applied to the whole job which he did not do.

Give him a check as payment and keep records of everything.

 

[XR7G428]

The first time I did sheet rock was a real learning experience. What I learned was that how well the sheet rock was hung, made a big difference in how much work would go into mud and tape. When you say he had to put on several layers of mud it makes me wonder what he was trying to do. If he was trying to make an amatuer job of sheetrocking look straight, it might have really taken a lot more work. I later worked as a trim carpenter and really started to appreciate the difference that the rock crew could make.


I don't know anything about your skill level, so if none of this applies, then he just flat sand bagged the job. Did it look like he was working in slow motion or doing nothing?

Good luck....

 

[REFLEXX]

Did you say that it was a "verbal agreement." You know that those are only worth the paper they are written on! Good luck to him in any court.

I agree with the gents above, get 3 estimates and see him in small claims.

Friends + money =

 

[bmwpower]

A "handyman" who charges by the hour? That should have been the first red flag...lol.

It sounds like he stretched out the job somewhat. It defintely should not have taken that long to do the 12x16 ceiling. It took my father about 24 hours to do a 29x29 ceiling PLUS 4 - 8x29 walls....3 coats....and he has one arm.

Without a contact, he's sunk. I had a similar problem with my waterproofing guy. He came out to patch some holes I made in my foundation...never gave me a price or a written contract. A couple of months later I get a bill in the mail for $250 for about 15 minutes worth of work. So I wait and wait until the guy calls me (at this point it's past the legal number of days for him to file a lein on my house....too bad for him). I told him I wasn't going to pay that much for the job, he basically said screw you and I said ok. I haven't heard from him since.

Moral of the story is he doesn't have much to stand on in court without a contract. He will more than likely have to hire a lawyer to defend him in court (more money) so he would like to rather not go to court if he can avoid it. I would try and make him another offer via registered mail once you get other estimates and see if he bites.

I wonder if he took longer than expected because of the back problem?

 

[ddjjeep]

He justifies his amount of time by saying that he works alone and his 32 "man hours" equals 3-4 guys on the same job for 8 hours.
But every contractor Ive talked to said it would have been a one person job as well, but at a fraction of the time this guy spent.

 

[GearHead_1]

Here's another perspective for you. I had my house sheet rocked I didn't do it, 5-6 guys here most of the time. Mind you it's a little over 5000 sq. ft. finished upstairs and down plus a sheet rocked garage that has 1600 sq. ft. It also has vaulted ceilings 19 ft. high in the house and 21 ft. high in the garage, more work than an 8 ft. ceiling. It was alot of sheet rocking. I paid roughly 7 times the amount of you initial quote and that included materials 5/8" in. sheet rock, screws, glue, edge moldings, mud, including a rather special mud finish (not your typical orange peel finish) and clean up for that price. I've been in the home for 6 months now and have yet to find a flaw in the sheet rock, it was a great job. What you have described here compared to what I had done sounds like armed robbery.

 

[NHCharger]

That's the problem with hiring a handyman. Ever hear the phrase "Jack of all trades, Master of none". Who do you think invented that? Tell him that before you pay him you need his S.S. number or federal tax ID number because you plan on giving him a 1099 at the end of the year. Most of these "Handymen" have the checks made out to them and cash them at your bank so they don't have to claim it, especially in your case where you bought all the materials. If he knows he will be paying taxes on it you might be able to settle on a lesser amount.

 

[Bill K]

Offer him 300 bucks that's about double what he's worth. If he refuses tell him to piss off. The verbal contract is worthless, he breached the agreement by not doing all the work he quoted.

 

[fasteb]

I had a 24 X 24 Garage with 10' ceiling done for 500.00 labor to finish and hang the drywall. I purchased the drywall and tape and screws and they hung it on the ceiling and walls.

 

[trovato]

No doubt that's a high price for the job done. But here's another scenario:

Judge: Did you agree to pay the man ** per hour?

You: Yes

Judge: How many hours did he work?

You: yy hours.

Judge: Let me see, ** times yy. Pay the man.

You: but, but, but...

 

[mleichtle]

Unfortunatly I have to agree with trovato, as I have a little expierience with small claims, this is a sticky situation, Then to make matters worse, if he does win, you end up with a judgment on your credit report for 10 years, weather or not you pay him. However your state might set you up with a mediator so you could sort it out and avoid a trial.

 

[maniac]

I have a little expierience with small claims, this is a sticky situation,

The fact that he mentioned small claims at all would say to me that HE has experience with small claims and knows the outcome.

Like trovato said the judge will ask if the work was done and if it was done you will end up paying, there could also be court costs involved here as well as his lost income for missing work and having to go to court.

Now for all those that say the price was too high, keep in mind what you pay is dependent on where you live, some areas the price is higher than others, because the labor rate is higher, OR because the service provider goes for the highest bidder.

Here in Ct the drywallers are getiing between $350 to $500 a day, thats just to hang and tape, no material.

Ever hear the phrase "Jack of all trades, Master of none". Who do you think invented that?

So what your're saying is NO ONE can be skilled at more than one thing?

While there is definitly an "art" to taping it really isn't that hard to do, when I started in the building trades most builders did everything themselves, so they HAD to be skilled in everything.


There are lots of good handymen out there, BUT there are a lot of phonies too, its a crapshoot.

ALWAYS get references, if you don't its only YOU to blame.

ALWAYS get it in writing, and REWRITE it if it changes.

ALWAYS get more than one estimate.

By the way ddjjeep, how did it come out? does it look OK? will it lok OK when its painted?

 

[ddjjeep]

ALWAYS get references, if you don't its only YOU to blame.
I had a few references, but not a lot.
ALWAYS get it in writing, and REWRITE it if it changes.
definiatly will next time.

ALWAYS get more than one estimate.
I did, and he was right on with everybody else (when his price included doing all the work)

By the way ddjjeep, how did it come out? does it look OK? will it lok OK when its painted?

It looks OK, I had to tuch up a few spots and ran out of time and had to get some paint on it before the carpet installers come tomorrow. Im satisfied with it, but it could definiately look better.

 

[ddjjeep]

No doubt that's a high price for the job done. But here's another scenario:

Judge: Did you agree to pay the man ** per hour?

You: Yes

Judge: How many hours did he work?

You: yy hours.

Judge: Let me see, ** times yy. Pay the man.

You: but, but, but...

I thought the same, but my question is where do you draw the line? If he came and just put up tape and never mudded it, but spent 32 hours doing it would it still be acceptable to charge me for those 32 hours. I guess my point is, I dont mind paying him for his work, but think that he took an unreasonable amount of time to do what he did and I shouldnt have to pay for him being slow.

 

[maniac]

I dont mind paying him for his work, but think that he took an unreasonable amount of time to do what he did and I shouldnt have to pay for him being slow.

Well I hate to say it, BUT when he said he was charging by the hour, did you ask how many hours it would take?

Charging by the hour is OK, BUT there needs to be a time table.

Also is he licensed? here in Ct you HAVE to be licensed (to do just about anything) If he is licensed you can look his license up, it will tell you if he's been involved in any disputes or judgements.

 

[ddjjeep]

Well I hate to say it, BUT when he said he was charging by the hour, did you ask how many hours it would take?

Charging by the hour is OK, BUT there needs to be a time table.

Also is he licensed? here in Ct you HAVE to be licensed (to do just about anything) If he is licensed you can look his license up, it will tell you if he's been involved in any disputes or judgements.

No license, not needed in NH.
The more I think about it, you are probably right. I didnt ask how many hours he would spend on that particular part of the job, just a general total amount of time. He didnt break it down for me, nor did I ask him to. I assumed (i know, i know) that as a "profesional", he would perform the tasks in a resonable amout of time.

 

[NHCharger]

Maniac, I've been in construction for 21 years. I wasn't meaning no disrespect to the guys in the trades. As ddjjeep said, no licensing required up here. Anyone with a PU truck, magnetic sign and some basic tools can call themselves a general contractor.

 

[maniac]

Anyone with a PU truck, magnetic sign and some basic tools can call themselves a general contractor.

HMMMM, well I hate to say it but its almost the same way here, only difference is you need to get a license Once the state has your money you get the license, the thing that bothers me is the state doesn't require any kind of insurance.

I have a 2 million dollar contractor liablity policy and 2 different licenses.

The one good thing about the license is the customer can look you up and find out about any problems you have, and the license number MUST be displayed on all paperwork, advertising, and anything with your company name on it. The newspapers won't even let you put in an ad without a license number.

Still there are lets say "less than honorable" people in the buisness, but then again why would this buisness be any different than any other One bad apple................................

 

[Rory Bellows]

Did the "handyman" quote you $35.00/hr? If not tell him to piss off and go to court. Even if he quoted you that, it is not in writing and most judgements would be the average rate. $35.00/hr sounds pretty damn high for a sheetrock guy. Don't worry about any other incurred costs such as loss of work etc. Small claims court does not have any allowances for them. At worst you will have to pay the $1100. Guys who do that work don't have deep pockets especially one w/ a bad back so just wait him out and go to court. With nothing in writing his claim is very weak. Realize you are getting swindled and welcome any court appearance because judges see this BS everyday. Your offer of $700 is fair and still works out to over $20.00/hr. Without anything in writing he can't even get a mechanics lien which is one of the simpliest judgements for recourse. Most everyone knows of small claims court so his mentioning of it is just a ploy for payment.

 

[maniac]

$35.00/hr sounds pretty damn high for a sheetrock guy

Maybe it's high in Ohio, here in Ct they would laugh at you if you offered them $50.00 an hour.

 

[Ron Lombardo]

I~m a Contractor and Construction Manage mostly Mechanical Contracts. I will not repremand you for hiring someone who is defineatly not a Liscenced or legitament business man. So lets get beyond contracts and verbal BS. I agree get three prices from legit guys and pay him at the LOWEST price. My personal backround is 4 GEN Plumber and schooled in BUS ADMIN and MECHANICAL trades.. My family were TAPERS. I can tape sheetrock with no sanding and I~m not a pro. But from what you describe he is a BUTCHER. He is a LABORER and they make 20.00 perhr in NY. x 31 hrs pay him 620.00 and tell him by by. A real pro doesnt sand compound and take 4 8 hr days for 2 rooms.