Contractor Taking Me For a Ride?

[bbdude513509]

Hi All - Hope this is the right spot for this.

I have south facing stamped concrete patio that's ~1k sqft and was here when we bought the house, but probably ~12 years old. Previous owners did not keep up with staining / sealing.

Last June, we hired a contractor to power wash, stain and seal the patio. I believe he used Deco-Guard. After sealing, there were some spots with bubbles. It seems like these were most likely due to the concrete not being fully dry before sealing. Anyway, contractor came back and addressed the larger bubbles with xylene. Contractor said the smaller bubbles will go away over time and, for the most part, this seemed to be true.

Now that winter is over, spots are showing up on the patio. You can see them in the attached photo. These are in some of the same areas where larger bubbles were treated with xylene. Prior to winter, these spots were not there or not noticeable. When I rubbed a wet rag on these spots there is a small indent in each spot.

I contacted the sealer to remediate these spot and he’s saying these are either wear marks from whatever the winter provided or its moisture spots. He said he recommends another sealing or xyzlening (which he doesn’t recommend with new stain being down).
Is this contractor playing me? Last year he said stain should last several years and sealing could be every other year or even longer. Now we need to do it again? What do you think?

 

[duneslider]

No idea what your area is like but I know winters can be pretty hard on this stuff in my area. Nothing seems to last as long as I would like.

 

[dcg9381]

Now that winter is over, spots are showing up on the patio. You can see them in the attached photo. These are in some of the same areas where larger bubbles were treated with xylene. Prior to winter, these spots were not there or not noticeable. When I rubbed a wet rag on these spots there is a small indent in each spot.

I contacted the sealer to remediate these spot and he’s saying these are either wear marks from whatever the winter provided or its moisture spots. He said he recommends another sealing or xyzlening (which he doesn’t recommend with new stain being down).

Is that a water based stain and then coated? That's what it looks like.
When my stained/sealed porches "wear" the sealant tends to take the stain with it and you end up with lighter spots.
I can't tell for sure if that's what is going on.... Perhaps not if there were light spots initially after staining/sealing.

We don't have "winter" problems here, so snow and ice are not something that I have experience with in combination with sealant.

Is this contractor playing me? Last year he said stain should last several years and sealing could be every other year or even longer. Now we need to do it again? What do you think?

I use HD-6600MMA to seal. I get about 2 years out of 2 coats on unexposed (covered) exterior concrete. When it starts to wear, it'll lift the stain with it.

On "exposed" concrete (driveway / sidewalk) I get no more than 1 year before I have to coat it again.

 

[Rusted Nut]

Sounds like you have moisture coming up through the slab.

 

[bbdude513509]

Is that a water based stain and then coated? That's what it looks like.
When my stained/sealed porches "wear" the sealant tends to take the stain with it and you end up with lighter spots.
I can't tell for sure if that's what is going on.... Perhaps not if there were light spots initially after staining/sealing.

We don't have "winter" problems here, so snow and ice are not something that I have experience with in combination with sealant.

I use HD-6600MMA to seal. I get about 2 years out of 2 coats on unexposed (covered) exterior concrete. When it starts to wear, it'll lift the stain with it.

On "exposed" concrete (driveway / sidewalk) I get no more than 1 year before I have to coat it again.

I can't remember the antiquing stain he used but the sealer was Deco Guard, which I understand is water-based. I am finding the stain leaves with the sealant. The areas impacted were under snow all winter so weren't disturbed by anything, which is why I was surprised.

I think the original patio may have been stained with an acrylic sealant considering how the final product looked after he applied Deco Guard. My guess is these spots might be related to the water-based sealant on top of the acrylic as the 'dots' are appearing in a spot where the acrylic seems the highest gloss.

Sounds like you have moisture coming up through the slab.

Fortunately, this is not the case.

 

[CombatNinja]

Not sure why you need to 'seal' a concrete patio. I've seen hundreds of attempts and it never works as planned.

 

[bbdude513509]

Not sure why you need to 'seal' a concrete patio. I've seen hundreds of attempts and it never works as planned.

I'll admit I don't know the answer. Whether it's sealed or not I don't really care, but I do want the color to look nice. Maybe you can share what you'd do? I think dropping ~$2k every year for a new round of power washing, antiquing and/or sealing is a racket.

Here is the patio 3 years ago. You can see some lighter spots where the raw concrete is showing because the sealer and antiquing wore off. 3 years later with lots of foot traffic and my kids playing on it - it was beginning to look much worse so I wanted to remediate it before it got even worse.

I had four separate companies come out and share how they would handle it. Three of them recommended the same thing: power wash, antiquing, water based sealant. Most estimates were ~$1,800.

One contractor recommended shot/sand blasting, antiquing w/ acid-based, and acrylic sealant. His estimate was $10k+.

 

[Dig Doug]

We have a stamped backyard patio and yes we sealed it…. It looked Amazing, just like your patio !

Once you seal it it is a NEVER ending maintenance project!

We played that game a few times and then stopped the process, had it all stripped off and NOW enjoyed non sealed concrete.
It was a HUGE let down at 1st it was beautiful and very rich looking
but
after a while you get used to the flat look ! My wallet looks rich and beautiful now !

it’s been 12 years after stopping the sealing game.

a lot of factors play into how long it lasts - - elements & weather conditions

 

[bbdude513509]

We have a stamped backyard patio and yes we sealed it…. It looked Amazing, just like your patio !

Once you seal it it is a NEVER ending maintenance project!

We played that game a few times and then stopped the process, had it all stripped off and NOW enjoyed non sealed concrete.
It was a HUGE let down at 1st it was beautiful and very rich looking
but
after a while you get used to the flat look ! My wallet looks rich and beautiful now !

it’s been 12 years after stopping the sealing game.

a lot of factors play into how long it lasts - - elements & weather conditions

Did you have your patio stained too?

I had my broom finish concrete pool coping sealed last year. I regret it. Slippery now for the kiddos. Think I'm just going to stop sealing all together.

 

[dcg9381]

Not sure why you need to 'seal' a concrete patio. I've seen hundreds of attempts and it never works as planned.

Yet we seal our garage and shop floors.
Same reason. For me, using water based stain (to change the color or aesthetics of the porch) you need to seal it with something.
Mine went exactly as planned, it's just a maintenance item.

Driveway is sealed in the same stuff. When the Amazon delivery driver's car drops 1/4 quart of oil and a bunch of transmission fluid, I just wipe it up with a paper towel and am done.

And yea, sometimes I park on the porch..

 

[bbdude513509]

Yet we seal our garage and shop floors.
Same reason. For me, using water based stain (to change the color or aesthetics of the porch) you need to seal it with something.
Mine went exactly as planned, it's just a maintenance item.

Driveway is sealed in the same stuff. When the Amazon delivery driver's car drops 1/4 quart of oil and a bunch of transmission fluid, I just wipe it up with a paper towel and am done.

And yea, sometimes I park on the porch..

Is the HD-6600-MMA an acrylic sealer? I googled a bit and looks pretty high gloss. If you were me, how would you handle the patio in the photos? Power wash, stain and water-based sealer as needed (every 1-2 years)? Sounds like I may have to DIY as $2k a year or every other will add up!

 

[dcg9381]

Is the HD-6600-MMA an acrylic sealer?

HD6600-MMA Concrete Sealer - Legacy Industrial

HD357 Etch Delta-Dye® Concrete Stain Tech Data SDS

www.legacyindustrial.co

"Methyl methacrylate (MMA) in its solid form, known as polymethyl methacrylate (PMMA), is a common acrylic plastic"

As I understand it, it's plastic suspended in a chemical that evaporates. It basically leaves a plastic like coating that is very thin.

I googled a bit and looks pretty high gloss. If you were me, how would you handle the patio in the photos? Power wash, stain and water-based sealer as needed (every 1-2 years)? Sounds like I may have to DIY as $2k a year or every other will add up!

It probably depends on the surface. I chose it as it's very UV stable and makes cleaning up messes like oil very easy. I use it on both porches, the driveway, and the sidewalks. Downside on smooth finished concrete (not what you have) is that it's slick when wet.

I would call it a "satin" finish on my applications. Definitely not high gloss. Brings out the stain a bit, but it's not flat either.

I defer to @LegacyIndustrial on how you'd need to prep the existing porch in terms of cleaning it and/or removing the existing sealer.

To re-apply, I don't have to power wash anything. I just get the surface clean and re-coat it with an 18" roller.

 

[bbdude513509]

HD6600-MMA Concrete Sealer - Legacy Industrial

HD357 Etch Delta-Dye® Concrete Stain Tech Data SDS

www.legacyindustrial.co

"Methyl methacrylate (MMA) in its solid form, known as polymethyl methacrylate (PMMA), is a common acrylic plastic"

As I understand it, it's plastic suspended in a chemical that evaporates. It basically leaves a plastic like coating that is very thin.


It probably depends on the surface. I chose it as it's very UV stable and makes cleaning up messes like oil very easy. I use it on both porches, the driveway, and the sidewalks. Downside on smooth finished concrete (not what you have) is that it's slick when wet.

I would call it a "satin" finish on my applications. Definitely not high gloss. Brings out the stain a bit, but it's not flat either.

I defer to @LegacyIndustrial on how you'd need to prep the existing porch in terms of cleaning it and/or removing the existing sealer.

To re-apply, I don't have to power wash anything. I just get the surface clean and re-coat it with an 18" roller.

Thanks, @dcg9381 . Interested to hear what @LegacyIndustrial suggests.

I think we'd avoid the PMMA seeing as we have a pool and it can get pretty wet in summer and we've already had a few spills. Want to try and thread the needle between a good looking patio, but not so slick that it's a slip and slide

 

[Dig Doug]

Pics of the frt and back concrete

they are both the same color the back is a texture stamp and not a pattern, they were done in 2006/7

Frt

back yard

 

[Dig Doug]

The front porch area has some minor issues circled in green

this sealer has been down for 5-6 years and just plan to keep it as it is for now