Convert 2 Singles to a Double

[swimrr]

Hiy everyone, I've recently moved into a house that has 2 single garages side by side and I want to convert them into a double. There is a main house support beam that stands in the middle of the dividing wall, but other than that I'm hoping to find only framing behind the drywall.

Any advice you can offer before I begin to take down the drywall would be greatly appreciated. I'm assuming the wall is non-weight bearing and it's just a matter of taking down the drywall and the framing, but I'm new to this and would appreciate any and all advice before I get started.

I'm greatly inspired by everyone's projects and hope to have a nice garage/workshop of my own!

TIA!

 

[reader2580]

A key question would be why are there two single car garages instead of double car garage? Was a second stall added on to the an original single car garage? If it is an addition then the wall is probably structural.

 

[swimrr]

The 2nd garage was originally assigned to another unit, hence the reason for the wall. We've since acquired the 2nd garage for our use so I'd like to create a double. If this helps you can see from the original reno drawings how the garage was divided.

garage.wall by swimrr, on Flickr

 

[James-W]

If the structure was built as one building and then later on a dividing wall was put up, then it's easy, just tear the wall down. On the other hand, if the wall is structural, then you have a much more complicated job on your hands.

 

[swimrr]

It was built as one structure. Is there a simple way to tell if the wall is load bearing or do I need to get someone in to tell me? If it's load bearing I'll be keeping 2 singles.

 

[FJ 432]

Do have intentions of removing the outer doors and installing a single double garage door?

 

[QwikKotaTx]

Typically if it's made to support the whole span the beam going across will be a laminate of multiple 2x10's or 2x12's and hopefully have a steel angle section on the bottom of that beam for support. A quick test is to kick the corner of center support wall. If it's very solid and makes a firm thud it is probably structural.

 

[swimrr]

Do have intentions of removing the outer doors and installing a single double garage door?

No, probably not. At this point I need the option to easily convert back to 2 singles if need be.

 

[bobemmerich]

If the wall runs the same direction as the floor joists, it's probably not structural. A pic or 2 would help.

 

[swimrr]

Here is a pic of the support beams. Each goes into a poured concrete block at the bottom.

pillar by swimrr, on Flickr

 

[swimrr]

It's time to get to work on taking down this wall so I'm bumping my thread for more advice. I've had a contractor tell me that this wall is not weight bearing based on looking at the support beams in the above picture and the fact that the studs are 24 inches apart. He said that if it was load bearing the studs would be 16 inches apart.

I'd like a few more opinions before I take it down or, if necessary, try to find an engineer to come in and give me the all clear.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Is there anything above the ceiling or is it just an attic space ? If would help If you could look above the drywall

 

[swimrr]

The garage is under the living room of the house so the second level floor is above the wall. I was going to start by removing two pieces of drywall from the end of the wall so I would have a walk-through to the other garage. Will seeing the studs give me any more information? I'd even be willing to take the drywall down and leave the studs up but I think I read somewhere that the drywall also provides some strength to load bearing walls, so if it turns out to be load bearing the drywall would need to stay up.

 

[kevinwilly]

I did something similar in december 2014. I had two 8' doors on the front of my house under a gable end. I wanted to put in one big door so that I could pull into the center of the garage to work on cars (and install a lift). The garage is only about 19'6" wide, so pulling into either door was a pain in the ****.

Since it was a gable end, it's not really load bearing, but there are racking requirements to keep in mind for wind loads and stuff.

I had a structural engineer come out (I can do the math but never bothered getting my PE cert, so I just hired it out). He took a look, spec'd new beams (that he was nice enough to size EXACTLY the same height as the old 2x12's used over each old door), just two 1 3/4" thick LVL's. He charged 200 bucks.

I ordered the LVL's, ripped them down to 10 3/4 tall or whatever it was- 190 bucks. Ordered new door, invited a friend over when it got in, and went to town. Took us about 13 hours to tear out, remove siding, re-frame, hang the new door, and then I re-did the siding and trim the next weekend (wanted to paint it first, and it was already 11pm at that point).

Been holding up perfect. I measure it every 6 months or so- still hasn't sagged at all, so I guess the engineer I hired was good.

TECHNICALLY you need to pull permits for this. I didn't bother because nobody would ever know the house didn't come like that, but I do have the stamped drawings so I can retroactively get them if I ever needed to- another perk of having a PE sign off on things.

 

[sublimate]

The 2nd garage was originally assigned to another unit, hence the reason for the wall. We've since acquired the 2nd garage for our use so I'd like to create a double.

Is this a condo/apartment?
Or do you own the whole building?

 

[swimrr]

kevinwilly, thanks for the info. Your skill set is way above mine and that would be an ideal solution. At this point just taking down the wall (if it's non-weight bearing) is about all I'm ready to take on, but if things change I might have someone come in and make it into a pure double. That would be great!

 

[matt_i]

Not sure what's above, living space?

Its not stated anywhere but doing anything with the posts or cross-beams is absolutely out. Those must remain in place no matter what else happens.

I can't tell if the wall is a shear plane for the posts, it definitely might be designed for that, to keep the posts in place and not rack sideways. If my question above is answered: living space there can be some different loads above than those on a trussed roof...

Were it my property I'd definitely want an on-site engineering opinion before proceeding. The best insurance you could buy in such a situation if you ask me.

 

[swimrr]

Is this a condo/apartment?
Or do you own the whole building?

We own the whole building and now the separate unit that the second garage was originally assigned to. Because we now own that unit we're using that garage as well but making it into a double would be much better than 2 singles, even if it had a support beam in the middle.

 

[matt_i]

If you are desperate for space...can you just frame in a double door that could be locked up later on? Or even filled back with plywood and drywalled over....

 

[swimrr]

Not sure what's above, living space?

Its not stated anywhere but doing anything with the posts or cross-beams is absolutely out. Those must remain in place no matter what else happens.

I can't tell if the wall is a shear plane for the posts, it definitely might be designed for that, to keep the posts in place and not rack sideways. If my question above is answered: living space there can be some different loads above than those on a trussed roof...

Were it my property I'd definitely want an on-site engineering opinion before proceeding. The best insurance you could buy in such a situation if you ask me.

Yes, it's living space above. I wasn't planning on doing anything with the posts or cross-beams at all, just taking down the drywall and framing. I hadn't thought about the wall being a shear plan for the posts, so that's another dimension to be considered.

I think it'll be best to have an engineer come in to give me a second opinion. How does one go about getting an engineer to come out for this type of advice? Just do a google search for structural engineers or is there a better way to find one?

 

[swimrr]

If you are desperate for space...can you just frame in a double door that could be locked up later on? Or even filled back with plywood and drywalled over....

It's more about being able to work on cars. Even with the beam in place, if I pull right up next to it I'll be able to use the jacks and maneuver around the car much easier than if the wall was there. The posts are not ideal, but much better than having a whole wall to deal with. The singles are not very big on their own, so even the space the wall is taking up is valuable.

 

[kevinwilly]

Yes, it's living space above. I wasn't planning on doing anything with the posts or cross-beams at all, just taking down the drywall and framing. I hadn't thought about the wall being a shear plan for the posts, so that's another dimension to be considered.

I think it'll be best to have an engineer come in to give me a second opinion. How does one go about getting an engineer to come out for this type of advice? Just do a google search for structural engineers or is there a better way to find one?

Yeah, that's how you'd normally do it. Make sure to ask what their hourly rate is and if they do fractional hours. My guy did 200/hour but split it every 15 minutes. He was only there for about 45 minutes, but I have a habit of being a "talker", so I got charged for an extra 15 minutes before I realized and shut my trap.

He had to get into the attic. If you have any of the plans from when the house was built, that would save him a LOT of time. Sometimes you can request them from the city planning office from when permits were pulled for the initial construction.

I actually found my guy because a friend was buying a house and had to have an engineering report done on some additions that were not up to code, so I didn't have to do a blind google THIS time, but in the past that method has worked for me in an industrial setting (getting overhead gantry beams stamped off on and such).

 

[swimrr]

I called a couple of offices yesterday and spoke with a guy who charges $200/hour. He said he'll need to look behind the drywall which is no big deal because I was planning on taking down a couple of panels anyway. He also suggested cutting a couple of feet from the ceiling so he can get a good look. So today I bought a drywall saw and I'm ready to go. Looking again at how the exposed support beams sit, in addition to the beam that runs across the garage from left to right I really think it's not weight bearing, but better safe than sorry. $200 is cheap insurance.

I spent some time pondering what I'll do if it turns out to be weight bearing. I figured I'll frame some doors into the wall giving me easy access to both sides (of course, it'll also be a good way to learn how to frame doors).