Convert Press to Electric Hydraulic?

[Cue]

I have a Harbor Freight 20 ton press with a air/Hydraulic jack now, it works great but electric/Hydraulic is so much smoother and nicer
I already have a Hydraulic pump for my JD2 Tube bender but not sure if it would work OK on this 20 ton ram?

This is the pump I have

https://www.jd2.com/p-37-electric-1-hp-4000-psi-hyd-pump-4-way-valve-and-hose.aspx


There is also the Harbor freight pump to make it dedicated to the press but I dont know if it would work with the ram either to get the full pressure out of the it?
http://www.harborfreight.com/1-hp-electric-hydraulic-pressure-pump-46169.html



This is the Hydraulic cylinder I thought might work in the press.

http://www.autobodytoolmart.com/ram...CbhFH9TjLocjPuCsNd4RNxrOWv7mn-EDfYaAqyL8P8HAQ


Has anyone converted one to Electric?

 

[Bondo]

Ayuh,.... The pump ya got will push 4000psi against the diameter of the ram/ piston,....

The Harbor Fright pump will push 2100psi against the diameter of the ram/ piston,...

I know that don't answer yer question, but I don't see the diameter of the ram/ piston listed,...

 

[f150skidoo]

Won't work the cylinder operates @10,000 psi to give it 20 tons. Using your JD2 pump it would be around 8 tons of force. You need to find a agricultural cylinder with a 4" bore x 8"-10" stroke that operates at 3000 psi, it would give you 19 tons of force. If you go up to a 5" bore cylinder you would be around 28 tons but you would need to reinforce the press frame. Heres a link to get cylinders that would work for the pump, you would just need to modify the cylinder for your mounting needs

http://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydrau..._HydraulicCylinderStrokeRange:6\"\+\-\+11.9\"

 

[Cue]

I have this ram that my Pipe bender uses, it says 10 ton, but if i'm using the 4000 psi pump that they also sold me I am only really getting around 3 tons out of it? The shaft diameter of the ram is 1.5"

https://www.jd2.com/p-35-hydraulic-cylinder-10-ton-14-stroke.aspx

The online calculators I messed with say at 4000 psi and a 4" ram it would be 22 tons?
http://www.baumhydraulics.com/calculators/cyl_calc.htm

Trying to figure this Hydraulic stuff out. Thanks for the link.

 

[f150skidoo]

The cylinder on your bender would be designed to work with the pressure of your pump which is 4,000 psi. The cylinder you originally linked was designed to work with a porta-power pump which works at 10,000 psi. Now the cylinders I linked have a max of 3,000 psi so you shouldn't exceed the cylinder recommended pressure, your power unit should have a adjustable pressure relief to turn it down to 3,000 psi. I would look on your pump to see exactly what its psi is.

 

[Cue]

Here is the cylinder for my bender, so I guess its not really pushing 10 tons or anywhere near it when the pump is 4000 psi correct? Yes, the pump is 4000 psi.
Must not need it to bend pipe.

 

[Bondo]

The shaft diameter of the ram is 1.5"

Ayuh,.... To use the hyd. calculators, ya gotta use piston diameter, the cylinder bore,....

Not shaft diameter,...

That cylinder needs 10,000psi to make 10 ton,.....

 

[Cue]

Ayuh,.... To use the hyd. calculators, ya gotta use piston diameter, the cylinder bore,....

Not shaft diameter,...

That cylinder needs 10,000psi to make 10 ton,.....

OK, thanks. Must not need 10 ton to bend pipe as it works well


So with a 4" bore and 4K PSI that would put me at 22 tons right? I should be able to figure something out now that I understand the Hydraulics a bit better.

 

[brownbagg]

hydraulic cylinder force

The force produced by a double acting hydraulic piston on the rod side (1) can be expressed as

F1 = (π (d22 - d12) / 4) P1 (1)

where

F1 = rod force (lb, N)

d1 = rod diameter (in, m)

d2 = piston diameter (in, m)

P1 = pressure in the cylinder on the rod side (lff/in2 (psi), N/m2 (Pa))

The force produced on opposite side of the rod (2) can be expressed as

F2 = (π d22 / 4) P2 (2)

where

F2 = rod force (lb, N)

P2 = pressure in the cylinder (opposite rod) (lff/in2 (psi), N/m2 (Pa))

 

[Cue]

So has anyone converted one? I found what I was told in email a low pressure 20 ton cylinder that they build from www.potterusa.com

Im going to call them tomorrow to talk more about it.

 

[manwithtools]

hydraulic cylinder force

The force produced by a double acting hydraulic piston on the rod side (1) can be expressed as

F1 = (π (d22 - d12) / 4) P1 (1)

where

F1 = rod force (lb, N)

d1 = rod diameter (in, m)

d2 = piston diameter (in, m)

P1 = pressure in the cylinder on the rod side (lff/in2 (psi), N/m2 (Pa))

The force produced on opposite side of the rod (2) can be expressed as

F2 = (π d22 / 4) P2 (2)

where

F2 = rod force (lb, N)

P2 = pressure in the cylinder (opposite rod) (lff/in2 (psi), N/m2 (Pa))

There are some formatting errors in this post that make the formulas very difficult to understand, even for someone who knows the formulas.

Also, these are written in a convoluted manner in my opinion. Formula for area of a circle is: pi * radius squared

Simple math as oldmachinenut pointed out is:

(3.1416 * Piston radius squared) * available hydraulic pressure = force while extending

((3.1416 * Piston radius squared) - (3.1416 * Rod radius squared)) * available hydraulic pressure = force while retracting

Cylinders in a bender and most presses are single acting, meaning they use a spring to retract, not hydraulic pressure. In that case the econ formula above is not needed.

 

[Cue]

Talked to Mr. Potter, nice guy. They build a lower pressure 20 ton Cylinder with a 4" bore, even told me where to get parts to build my own, he was very helpful.

I am now thinking about upgrading my press.

Looking at the Harbor freight 50 ton
http://www.harborfreight.com/50-ton-hydraulic-shop-press-96188.html

and the Strongway from Northern Tool

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200641790_200641790

I have seen the Northern Tool one in person, looks pretty beefy. I am going to go look at the HF one tomorrow, they look similar in the pics.

Anyone have one or the other? Not sure why the NT one is so much more expensive.


And then I may convert it to electric, I assume they are using 10K pressure in the air/Hydraulic jacks, the ram on the Northern tool one is 2 1/4" but I dont know what the bore is and cant find any specs on it. I assume since its a regular Hydraulic Cyl and not a bottle jack, instead of hooking the line to the air/jack they include, I could just hook it to one of these

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Electric-Dr...402041?hash=item1a21928c79:g:h0oAAOSwopRYZdYp

 

[Cue]

So I went with the 50 ton press from northern, welded up a stand to stiffen up the legs, powdercoated it, and added casters so I can move it around easily. Works great and cant tip it over even if I try and there is now storage on the bottom for press plates and other related stuff.
Next I got a used Enerpac 10K electric pump off Ebay, welded up and powdercoated a tray and mount to add it to the side of the press where I removed the factory Air/Hyd pump, with a couple of fittings and 3/8" hose and its all complete.

The Air/Hydraulic pump that came with this press is terribly slow, forget about even trying to hand pump it, with this Electric pump it is the perfect speed, not too fast and not too slow. Also with the 10 foot remote control I can stand way back when pressing those "iffy" items

 

[texasranger]

Nice rig! How big is your oven? I'd like to powder coat some big stuff like that one day.

 

[Cue]

Nice rig! How big is your oven? I'd like to powder coat some big stuff like that one day.

Thanks, oven is about 3x3x5 inside and sure is nice to be able to coat projects.

 

[Iroc-Z]

I have the 50 ton from Grizzly tools. Works great

 

[amlee]

I've been searching for the same answer. I have the exact setup as you. What I can't find is HOW to attach an elect/hyd cylinder to the press. There's a formula for the psi and tonnage, psi is known for the pump, but how is it going to attach and what shape of cylinder will be easiest to build a mount for. I've also search for converting the bottle jack to accept the 10,000psi JD2 pump, but again, not much info out there. I did find a youtube video of a converted bottle jack, but zero info about HOW he did it.

 

[Cue]

The press from Northern doesnt use a bottle jack, it is a regular Hydraulic cylinder with a air/hydraulic 10K psi pump, I just removed the stock pump and put on a electric pump.