coo

[maddawg308]

I got screwed about 10 years back out of the Craftsman replacement guarantee. I buy hand tools at pawn shops and flea markets for a dollar or so. One obviously broken Craftsman wrench I took to the local Sears, with a bunch of others to replace. The gent behind the counter replaced them all except for this one wrench. He said, "I can't replace this one for you. Look closely at the name." It said "CRAFTMAN", made in China. This was about 1998 or so, before the real Craftsman was being made in China. So someone over in the land of crappy metal and short people made a knock-off with a closely-related name, in order to run on the name recognition of a then-American-made company.

True story. Just thought I would share.

 

[plumber84]

You must be employed, and secure about it. -- I am a independent contractor, but not as secure about it.
We are both really lucky to be employed, because our products/services have a market. Also, your job and my job has not been sold-out.
-- We both know numerous good, hard working, people that aren't so lucky.

Some employed people are slow learners ..and from their bubble, they are kinda not aware of COOs shifting.. so these firm COO reminders are valuable ..everywhere.

..that is all..
.

You make a very good point, my old man started his working life at 15 years old as a machine fitter in a card board factory, back then he did a 8 year apprenticeship in engineering and worked there for another 16 years before the factory was forced to closed, that factory provided his family with home and a reasonable standard of living, the road that factory was on was home to 8 other factories empolying thousands of skilled people, nowadays the factories have been replaced by call centers and office blocks, its no wonder we now have a generation of teenagers that cant repair a leaking tap or change a light bulb, very sad.

 

[BrokewrenchLS1]

Electronics?..........puh--lease......we don't really have that much of a choice now do we..? Clothes??.......Yep....screwed again...unless you wear Dickies or Carhardt....and that ain't no guarantee...lookit at Levi's.....

Carhartt isn't US-made any more; at least, not the jeans or duck jacket I bought last year, nor the boots my dad's been buying for the past three years.

I prefer US-made stuff, but I'm not stuck on the bandwagon that any tool made in the US is inherently superior to any tool made in a different country (strangely, EU-made tools seem to be exempt from this, even though their regulations on "Made in..." labeling is much less restrictive than comparable US laws). There are plenty of ****** US tools, and plenty of good imports. The biggest cultural thing we need to do in the US is to admit that we're not leading the pack in a huge number of categories, and to sit down and figure out what needs to happen for us to do things right again.

I prefer not to buy Chinese for political and cultural reasons - I want as little of my money supporting the current government there as possible. I do occasionally buy things built by individuals or very small businesses in China for specific niche applications (there are some very well-designed and built headphone amplifiers and equipment built by small Chinese businesses).

 

[shoturtle]

I say buy the best you can fine, that fits in your budget. And if you can find it with the made in USA stamp fine. It is your money spend it the way you want to.

But some need to buy according to budgets. a 25 dollar kolbalt ratchet vs a 100 dollar snap on ratchet, both works the same and both have quality construction. But some need to spend the 75 dollars in saving form the SO for baby diapers or grocery.

I personally try to avoid chinese made goods when possible. But it is impossible to not buy made in China. Most my tools are US, German or Taiwan made. I buy Wrangler Riggs work pants made in the USA. I like Mac's so I type on a made in China computer. I own a german made car, my bikes are german, italian and japanese.

I recently brought my first made in china tool, craftsman 81pc pass through. No other company has a set with that many options with the pass through socket, hex and torx bits. Quality is good, and price was great for 65 dollars. Could spend 3x as much for a USA made set, but would not have the torx and hex bit options. You make your own decision.

I think the COO bashing on tools is just silly. You do not know the budget and needs of the person buying the tools. There are compromises that everyone makes. I say respect the needs of that person that buys the chinese made tool.

 

[SMKS]

I buy Wrangler Riggs work pants made in the USA.

I'm not familiar with the Riggs models specifically, but all the other wrangler jeans I've seen are no longer made in the US, they're now "made in Mexico of US fabric."

There are a few large work clothes stores in my area and all of them carry Wrangler, and all the Wrangler pants they have are made in Mexico.

 

[shoturtle]

The riggs have the US flag on the paper label. The ones I buy are the ones made of cordura. Very rugged pants. I know the regular wrangler are made in Mexico. The riggs I have may be NOS. As I got them couple years back. As they really last.

 

[Thumper]

Ok.......I stand corrected on the Carhardt and Dickies clothes.....fucked again....!

 

[shoturtle]

well there are still allot of NOS carhardt stuff out there that are made in the USA.

 

[NC-Fordguy]

No doubt you are E-tough.. Well Kinda.. The whole "Will the Mods please step in" thing kinda ruined it for you.



Obviously the Mods have already spoken.. Again.. You have Complained multiple times in the "Carlye" threads about people discussing the COO in the Threads. I still havent seen anything Derogatory in the Discussions....

E-tough...give me a break and I really could care less about the carlye threads at this point

I guess you don't get the point or can't get past whatever you have fabricated in your mind about me personally. I could care less.

There is nothing wrong with inquiring about coo. This is a factor many use when purchasing something. I do this as well.

The problem is that it doesn't stay at just an simple question. It progresses into comments such as "I'm not buying that chinese junk", "I won't have chinese **** in my tool box" along with the racial slurs that have popped up. There was even a thread about segregating chinese tools. Not to mention the amount of clutter that chokes a thread to the point of it being a lost discussion. Nothing positeve comes out of stuff like this.

There is a fella that sews up softops for me that is from china. Real nice guy and works hard. I think he would be appalled over the comments that are made here if he was to visit this site.

Let me put this in another way since you have issues grasping simple thought processes.

There are tools made in Mexico. Black and Decker if memory serves me right. So someone asks where is that B&D drill made? Someone says Mexico. All is fine and well.

Then the ensuing comments begin. Wait lets start a thread about segregating mexican tools.

You really think this kind of thing is good for a forum?

Let me restate this in case you still don't get it. There is nothing wrong with asking where something is made. The problem is it does not stop there. Read nearly any thread on this site once this becomes the focus point of the thread

 

[woody 73]

Today I was in Home Depot (in the tool dept section) and just by chance I stopped two men about my age and I asked the following question to both of them:

What is important to you the price of the tool you are buying ? or where that tool is made?

The first man said the price is the most important to him and the other man thought for a few minutes before he said Coo was more important to him. (Now mind you he was buying a husky tool that was made in China!

Next time you are shopping ask others and see what they think, I say price will get them most of the time.

 

[shoturtle]

funny thing, I was talking so some one at HD yesterday, we were looking at the milwaukee fuel 18v brushless. And I said they are very good tools, they other guy said he has the the hammer drill, and they are great. I just said I just think that is allot of money 300 for a made in China hammer drill. But next to that they are way better then the dewalt with the battery. I doubt anyone really looks at coo anymore, as the guy did not know his tool was made in china.

 

[d_rock]

Today I was in Home Depot (in the tool dept section) and just by chance I stopped two men about my age and I asked the following question to both of them:

What is important to you the price of the tool you are buying ? or where that tool is made?

The first man said the price is the most important to him and the other man thought for a few minutes before he said Coo was more important to him. (Now mind you he was buying a husky tool that was made in China!

Next time you are shopping ask others and see what they think, I say price will get them most of the time.

We all work hard for our money, and in this economy we have to stretch every dollar we can. Your post reminded me of something I read (on here I think). It went something like this "nobody buys a drill because they need a drill, they buy a drill because they need a hole".

 

[pipsters]

We all work hard for our money, and in this economy we have to stretch every dollar we can. Your post reminded me of something I read (on here I think). It went something like this "nobody buys a drill because they need a drill, they buy a drill because they need a hole".

IMO if you have the means to support American companies you should. My first year out of college I made $12,000. My wife and I made $30,000 COMBINED...that was in 2004...so not that long ago. I couldn't even afford Harbor Freight back then!! I did a brake job behind a mall to save myself money, I was that desperate.

I've been lucky enough to not get completely screwed in this recession (yet...) and buying US tools made me feel better about going on a tool binge while others were on unemployment for years as my income has grown to solid middle class. Honestly I feel like I am living the American dream at this point, but I know millions of hard working Americans are getting completely screwed by companies moving production overseas.

I don't get upset at people struggling buying imported products, but I really get upset when well off people do. They are pulling up the ladder.

 

[boostedgt]

vintage usa tools are the best, usually cheaper than new import and they have high quality

 

[shoturtle]

I don't get upset at people struggling buying imported products, but I really get upset when well off people do. They are pulling up the ladder.

I would not agree with this statement. As it is a free country. And people can opt for what every they want.

Why should someone making 200k buy a 300 dollar ratchet set, if they really don't use it. That they just want something handy around the house where a 50 dollar set would do.

 

[d_rock]

I don't get upset at people struggling buying imported products, but I really get upset when well off people do. They are pulling up the ladder.

There is a reason there well off. They don't spend 100 bucks on an extension!

 

[pipsters]

I would not agree with this statement. As it is a free country. And people can opt for what every they want.

Why should someone making 200k buy a 300 dollar ratchet set, if they really don't use it. That they just want something handy around the house where a 50 dollar set would do.

Like I said it's pulling up the ladder.

Buy a cheaper US made ratchet set. My 3 pc thin profile Craftsmans cost me $53.11 after tax...bought last year...US made. Unfortunately they are no longer.

Hell buy a 260 pc Craftsman set with all 3 ratchets in them plus a ton of sockets and wrenches for $170...you don't have to spend anywhere near $300 to buy US made...come on now.

 

[shoturtle]

more is not alway better. it is just more. Kolbalt makes a nice 50 dollar set. Why spend the extra 110 dollars when not needed. Even HIE think about budget and spend accordingly.

 

[pipsters]

There is a reason there well off. They don't spend 100 bucks on an extension!

You don't have to spend $100 on an extension though. One can be frugal and still buy US made.

You can also be frugal and buy foreign goods, I agree, but spending an extra couple hundred or thousand a year on US products does not hurt your long term financial health.

 

[A_Pmech]

Why buy Made in USA?

Because if we don't NONE OF US ARE GOING TO HAVE JOBS.

Unless flipping burgers is your idea of a "career".

Discussing where tools are made is on-topic discussion. But if this thread devolves into name-calling or politics I'm going to lock it, assuming one of the other mods doesn't get here first.

 

[thesilverone]

In 2008, Irwin announced the closing of its DeWitt, Nebraska plant, ending 80 years of American production for Vise-Grips

go ask all those people who lost their job why COO is important (and that's a small sample).

and NC-Fordguy

If you don't like the COO debate then don't read the thread. Simple as that

 

[pipsters]

more is not alway better. it is just more. Kolbalt makes a nice 50 dollar set. Why spend the extra 110 dollars when not needed. Even HIE think about budget and spend accordingly.

Why spend even $50? What will this go for? Maybe $35 or $40?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CRAFTSMAN-3...825?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20c878da19

 

[Hiball]

The problem is that it doesn't stay at just an simple question. It progresses into comments such as "I'm not buying that chinese junk", "I won't have chinese **** in my tool box" along with the racial slurs that have popped up. There was even a thread about segregating chinese tools. Not to mention the amount of clutter that chokes a thread to the point of it being a lost discussion. Nothing positeve comes out of stuff like this.

LMAO... Could you do "Us" <--- Community and show us these threads where people have posted your Quotes. Ive been here 3+ years, Over 7K posts and while ive seen this type of behavior, Its Nothing that has happened with any Recent Regularity. Sure... We have a few Guys who like to stir the pot but not to the EXTREME and Regularity that you claim. I can promise you that GJ MODS dont hesitate to Ban someone for "Racist" claims. What do you think the chances of what you think is "Cluttered Discussion" may be something someone else is interested in? Im done talking about it.. Ive been around here long enough to see the Bad, The Good and i know the Positives outweigh the Negative 99% of the Time.

Over and Out..

 

[wmartin]

I would not agree with this statement. As it is a free country. And people can opt for what every they want.

Why should someone making 200k buy a 300 dollar ratchet set, if they really don't use it. That they just want something handy around the house where a 50 dollar set would do.

Maybe because they opt for whatever they want?

lol...I suppose that in 90% of cases, one 1/2 wrench is about as good as another, maybe 99%.

Personally, I'm in favor of having less, but really good, stuff, and there's something inherently pleasing about high end hand tools. Unlike a lot of hobbies, it's affordable. Try buying a really nice flute or a hemicuda and you'll see what I mean.

These are always tough discussions since it's so hard to talk about the theoretical case. Everyone thinks that they are being picked on, even when it's not true.

As an aside, the problem I've had for the last few years is the need to buy bargains. In a few cases, I'm way overtooled because I saw some smoking deal on Amazon or eBay. Both of those have mostly gone away now, so it's not an issue, but it's easy to end up with an abundance of screwdrivers.

anyhow, it's probably time to close the thread down before knickers get completely twisted.