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copper airline installation (dialup beware)

byrdman

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I don't know that this is really a "how-to", but I'll put some pictures here and maybe leave a few bits of info about my installation. Big thanks go out to everyone who answered all my copper airline questions back in April, when I THOUGHT I'd get to do this project.

1. Like everything else, it took longer than I planned to get this done. The 10 trips to Lowe's didn't help! This took about a week's worth of 6-8 hour days. It was somewhat unnerving to not really be able to pressurize the system untilI was basically done. I had sweated pipes only one other time in my life so I wasn't 100% confident the system wouldn't be super-leaky when I finally got to test it. Every joint I sweated, I muttered "I hope this doesn't leak".
2. I used schedule "L" copper, lead-free solder and flux, regular propane "Benzomatic" torch. I did NOT find myself wishing I had MAPP gas. The brass ball valves took a little longer to heat up, but even those were only a minute or two. The main feeds are 3/4" and the drops are 1/2" Regular fittings fit "Schedule L" copper. The inputs to my filter/regulators were 3/8". It may not be obvious in the pictures, but the entire system is angled to run water back towards the tank.
3. 70+ joints sweated, only one tank of gas required! I assembled and sweated on the ground/in my vise as much as possible, then mounted to ceiling/wall. I think I only sweated 3 joints against a wall.
4. My general procedure: after measuring and cutting a piece, I'd wipe it down using a paper towel lightly misted with 50/50 water/rubbing alcohol, then use emory cloth on the pipe, and a wire brush specially sized for 3/4" or 1/2" on the fittings. Clean just until copper shines, not enough to change size of fitting or pipe. Brush both surfaces liberally with paste flux. (Keep the garbage out of the flux! At one point I noticed I was getting trash in my joints from brushing the flux on- over time you brush flux into joints that have already been sweated once, then double-dip the flux and get **** in there) Push together and sweat.
5. The flex line at tank is actually hydraulic line good to 3000 fluid psi. I had a local hardware store make it for me.

-The wooden spacers behind the pipe are a)to promote cooling by allowing air to circulate all the way around the pipe, and b)one the ceiling, to obtain the proper uphill slant.
-I know the area for water to collect at the main water drain (where the line first enters the building) is not very big. I wanted as long a run as possible between the tank and my first drop.
-Each drop has it's own regulator(OK, so I'm missing one for right now). Each drop has 4 filtered outputs, two regulated, and two full pressure. I've left tees on each end of the system in case I want to run additional lines later.

I've got some leaks to fix, but they seem to be located at fittings on these regulator/filters, NOT in the sweated joints. I've been over the whole thing with a bottle of soapy water and have yet to find a leak related to my joints. Who-hoo!

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byrdman

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rest of the pics

06.jpg


07.jpg


08.jpg


09.jpg


10.jpg


Yeah, yeah, I know- I'm going to blow leaves RIGHT NOW... :thumbup:
 
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Roadster

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Very nice! Great compressor, too. Your set-up really rocks! :rocker:

You might want to consider putting thicker wooden blocks under the anchors on those down-legs to minimize stess in the vertical copper pipe from the apparent bending visible in the photos (better aesthetic appearance, too).
 

motorheadjohn

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Poquoson VA
Very nice!!! Good looking system. Excellent.

....and very similar to how I had done mine. I assembled 6-8' legs in my vice where it was easier to sweat the pipes, then assembled them with brass unions up on the wall. Made it easier to install as a one-man job, especially up on the ladder (12' garage here).

I had never sweated copper pipes before my air project, but I didn't have any leaks at the joints. You will get some leakage from quick disconnect fittings. No biggie. It's not like water pipes where a leak is major problems. A small amount of bleed-off in your air system is just a given. Don't worry about it much. I do make sure my threaded fittings into filter/regs are sealed with tape and tightened well.
 

kartracer55

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motorheadjohn said:
Very nice!!! Good looking system. Excellent.

....and very similar to how I had done mine. I assembled 6-8' legs in my vice where it was easier to sweat the pipes, then assembled them with brass unions up on the wall. Made it easier to install as a one-man job, especially up on the ladder (12' garage here).

I had never sweated copper pipes before my air project, but I didn't have any leaks at the joints. You will get some leakage from quick disconnect fittings. No biggie. It's not like water pipes where a leak is major problems. A small amount of bleed-off in your air system is just a given. Don't worry about it much. I do make sure my threaded fittings into filter/regs are sealed with tape and tightened well.


Yeah all the sweats hold on my system (probably because my dad only let me do a handful :lol: ) but 2 threaded connectiongs have a very slight leak... Im talking like 5psi over a few hours.

Jim
 

SteveL

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St. Louis, MO
Nice job!!!!!!!!! I wish I had put a regulator/filter at each drop when I did mine! They can add up quick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ I will eventually come back and add them to the two hose reels on the ceiling and a couple of other drops that I have. Can I ask where you got yours and how much they were??? I've been tempted to get some from Harbor Freight but I'm always nervous about the quality of their stuff.
 
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byrdman

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Thanks to all for your comments and praise! Thanks especially for the reassurance about the how common leaks are in a system such as this, that makes me feel a little better about it.

(One thing I forgot to mention above concerning threaded fittings- teflon tape *****! Those regulator/filters had leaks all over the place so I took each fitting out, cleaned it up, teflon taped it and put it back together. It still leaked! I began using the tape along with some yellow paste thread sealant, and that worked much better. I'll never use tape by itself again.)

Roadster: The short focal length I used on that shot really exaggerated the bend. The pipe was at the very edge of the photo where the "barrel distortion" is the worst. It does have a slight bend, but nothing serious. If it was as bad it looks, I'd be doing exactly what you suggested. Good eye though!

Steve, I got my regulator/filter "air control units" at Autobody Store, $118 each. A little pricey, but I liked having a main line pressure gauge, a filter, and a regulator all in one unit.
 

nova65ss

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That's awesome, very nice setup! Man if I had that compressor outside my garage like that I'd be the least liked neighbor in the neighborhood!

Nice garage too 1st time I have seen it. What kind of car you working on there?

Jimmy
 
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byrdman

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Yeah, I hope the noise is not too much of a problem. Really, it sounds no louder than a lawn mower to me, maybe quieter. I plan on being as courteous as I can with it.

Thanks man. I've only posted scattered pics of my shop here and there in other people's posts, I've never really done the "Here's my shop" post.

For detail on my projects, go here.
 
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Byrdman, you must do computers for a living. That page about your truck is the neatest internet page I've ever visited. That magazine cover with the links in it is topnotch.
 
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byrdman

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Firefighter: What a compliment, thanks!:eek: That's quite nice to hear, I spent a lot of time on that page. It's sadly out of date now, but at the time I created it my inspiration was to produce something different than the typical "before and after" page of pictures. (And yes, actually I do "do" computers for a living- Windows desktop and LAN support)

Tom: Thanks man. Coming from you that's a rather flattering comment...

Gerry: Like I said, I made about 10 trips to Lowe's so I'm left a little uncertain as to the final cost. I'd guesstimate $250 - $300 for copper (does not count regulator/filters, quick-connects or the pulldown reel). I used schedule L copper.
 

Fuzzydog

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British Columbia
Hi guys, total newb here but been lurking for a while.
First off let me add my compliments on the job. I have a much smaller shop that I am in the process of finishing. (I have a concrete floor, walls, a roof and lights) I do have a compressor and I want to hardline as you have.
one question (so far) that has struck me is the complex bend at the top where the vertical line joins the horizontal line. why does the pipe go up and over the horizontal, then back down?
 

bmwpower

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Is it common practice to run a hose to things such as a filter/regulator or hose reels instead of a hard line?

Going to paint the copper?
 
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byrdman

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Fuzzydog said:
...one question (so far) that has struck me is the complex bend at the top where the vertical line joins the horizontal line. why does the pipe go up and over the horizontal, then back down?

Thanks FD. The pipe turns upward first to discourage water from finding its way into the drop.


BMWpower: I don't know that it's UNcommon, but I've never seen anyone else do it. I'm not sure what the standard practice is. A lot of times I've seen hard line run to a regulator, then a hard line from regulator to water filter, then more hard line to quick connect. I didn't want all that hanging on the wall, so bought these all-in-one style "air control units".

I used the hose mainly because the main input up on top of these air control units things is REALLY hard to get at if using a wrench. It's tough to get it tight enough to stop leaks. A barbed fitting could be installed with a deep socket before the hose was attached, which was MUCH easier. Mounting the units first, then slipping the hose on and tightening the clamp just seemed like the easy way to go. Does it look funny?

I think if anything, I might polish the copper and clearcoat it. I think it looks cool, it makes the shop look like it means business!
 

REFLEXX

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Riverside, CA
WOW!

that is fantastic. That's Wikipedia quality work, file it under "how to!"

I'm using that as my on-line manual whe I do my lines (soon I hope). I'm **** enough to polish the tubing and clear. I'm also thinking of machining some custom delrin clamps to use in place of the wood and pipe clamps.



REFLEXX :thumbup:
 

bmwpower

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Speaking of clamps...don't they make offset clamps for instances like this? Looks sort of like an eye hook. I'll have t look.
 
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86swb

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nova65ss said:
That's awesome, very nice setup! Man if I had that compressor outside my garage like that I'd be the least liked neighbor in the neighborhood!
Jimmy


That is what is nice about living in the country. No neghbors close enough to hear the compressor. By the way, looks like a great job you did. Seems like the walls would get alful hot getting the flame so close to the walls? I have never done any of that sweating myself. The leaks you talk about can always be stopped. Alsome looking garage.
 
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byrdman

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86swb said:
...By the way, looks like a great job you did. Seems like the walls would get alful hot getting the flame so close to the walls? I have never done any of that sweating myself. ...

Thanks man. For someone with next to no experience sweating joints, I'm rather proud of it. I was meticulous about getting things clean before fluxing and sweating and I attribute positive things to that.

Of the 80+ joints in the system, only 3-4 were sweated with the pipe installed on the wall. Most of the joints were sweated with the pipe clamped in my vise, or just laying on the floor. For those 3 or 4 joints against the wall, I stapled a piece of asbestos to the wall behind the joint.
 

ThreeBay

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That looks really great. I have a similar set up in my garage ... without the fancy regulators.
I am in the process of mounting my new air compressor outside like yours. I am in NJ so mine "enclosure" will have walls.

What type of "hose" did you use from the compressor to the through-the-wall fitting. What you have looks much cheaper than the braided type that is usually used.

And yes I do agree CHEVYS RULE !!!
 
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byrdman

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Thanks threebay.

The hose is a hydraulic hose good to about 3000psi. A local hardware store here makes them. It might look cheaper, but it was not. The 90° fittings were expensive, and I guess a 3/4" hose in the hydraulic world is relatively large. I got a friendly price at $70. One with regular straight fittings would have been $40-50.

hyrdhose.jpg


(good to see another Chevy fan on board, welcome to GJ!)
 

TL1

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Looks Good But I Think A Better Way To Control Water Is To Put You Drops Straight Down But Extend Them Past Your Coupler And But A Ball Valve On The Bottom This Way The Water Runs Past Your Outlet And Collects In The Extra Pipe, All You Have To Do Is Drain It Into A Bucket And You Don Have To Mess With The Tank As Much.
 
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byrdman

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I don't understand- how is that different than what I've done? :headscrat
 

bmwpower

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byrdman said:
I don't understand- how is that different than what I've done? :headscrat

I think he's saying put some pipe and a ball valve immediately after the tank... another drain of sorts.
 

pony

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Thank you for your efforts in sharing that with us. That is my next big project and I have been ruminating on this for some time now; much has been gleaned from your post :thumbup:

One thought is you have all the water draining back into your tank. You are comfortable not using some form of "condensor" in your line between your compressor and water separator? I was planning on piping a ladder system of 10 pipes 3' with 180 degree ends to allow the air to cool and condense to a drain **** at the bottom.

Hopefully your are correct and I am overkill as it'll save me a lot of work and cost :bow:

BTW You and I are of the same Profession
 
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byrdman

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I like your signature!

Glad this helped you out. I know I had a lot of questions when I was researching this project. As far as the water draining back to the tank- there is a collection point below the T at the main input right as the pipe comes into the building (see first picture) that should catch any water in the system running back towards the tank. Whatever water that is in the flex hose will run back to the tank, but that should be it. Condensor/evaporators are big and expensive, I'm hoping to get by without one for now. So far I've yet to see my die grinder spit water, and I've used it for several hours in a row. I'm sure that summertime will be a better season to test this.

Regarding your "ladder system"- I guess you just need enough surface area to allow sufficient cooling prior to your first drop. If your first drop is super close to your tank, the "ladder" might be necessary.
 

gary whipple

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When I bought my compressor from Eaton they told me if you have auto drain you should have the air line drain back to the tank so the auto drain will remove the water.
Anybody have any thoughts on this?

Gary
 

TL1

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I Was Mistaken I Looked Closer And That Is Exactly What You Did, I Thought That Was A Coupler At The Bottom Of Your Drops.
 

Ron Lombardo

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byrdman not to throw a shovel in the works but a couple things are wrong wioth your layout. All of the drops which come down the wall to feed air to a use point need to come off the main air trunk off the top of the main with a tee facing up to the cieling then a small piece of pipe and loop down with two 90's. the main should pitch back to the compressor and drain back to the tank. This will prevent water from coming out of the use points.

Ron
 
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byrdman

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"Johnand", I went back and changed the links so the pictures work again, sorry about that. Big thanks to Luke for not locking down these old threads.

Hey Ron, take another look, that's what I did. I guess if the pictures were not showing up, then you couldn't see that!
 

fatboy

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Mar 19, 2006
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Louisiana
I have a shed in my back yard which I want to put my compressor in but it is about 80-100yards from my garage. I was planning on running the black steel piping between the shed and garage that Home Depot sales. Seems that it might be easier and a little cheaper to use cooper tubing but I was wondering if the copper tubing will stand up to being barried in the ground?

Your garage setup looks really nice. Hopefully one day I can get my compersor plummed like yours...

I did buy a filter that looks like yours but didn't cost as much... got it from harbor frieght.. so far I am pretty happy with them...
 

Stryker124

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Just wanted to say thanks for this, it gave me some great ideas, and I was able to complete my much smaller setup this weekend without much hassle.
 

bobbyd

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Kansas
Just a reminder to everyone, make sure you use copper or plastic supports where they come in contact with the copper pipe. Using dissimilar metals will eventually cause corosion in the copper and failure. As you can see, Byrdman done this.

By the way, I like the built in cooling where the line passes through the ductwork.

Fatboy, Type K copper I believe is rated for below grade applications. My suggestion, schedule 80PVC, cheaper and easier to work with.

For those interested, my dad used schedule 40 pvc throught his shop, concealed in the walls. He has an IR compressor rated up to 180 psi. He has never had a problem.
 

fatboy

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From everything that I have read PVC is a no no because it will eventually explode. I couldn't take a chance on running that through my back yard and having it come apart and hitting one of my kids. I wish it would work.


If I run it throught the ground to my garage how do I get rid of the water from the line that builds up? Biggest thing I am worried about is after a time the water will build up and cause serious problems.
 

maa139

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West Chester PA
Ron Lombardo said:
byrdman not to throw a shovel in the works but a couple things are wrong wioth your layout. All of the drops which come down the wall to feed air to a use point need to come off the main air trunk off the top of the main with a tee facing up to the cieling then a small piece of pipe and loop down with two 90's. the main should pitch back to the compressor and drain back to the tank. This will prevent water from coming out of the use points.

Ron

Not trying to start an argument here, but check out this link....

http://www.sharpe1.com/dr-pipe.htm

This is how I designed my air system (I used iron pipe). In this diagram, the main slopes away from the compressor to avoid having water accumulate back in the tank. This will help prevent the tank from rusting. I don't disagree with you, however, on the drops should exit from the top of the main. But I have my drops coming straight off of the bottom of the main. Every shop I've ever been in are setup this way, so I'm not concerned But I do have a drain below the coupler so that I can drain the drops.

Matt
 
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