Copper CCA Jumper cables.

[woody 73]

Funny thing I never gave it much thought, but in the back of my mind my father would always tell me to buy a good set of all copper jumper cables. So, when I found a nice set on CL for a set of 2 gage all copper jumper cables, I bought that set.

Sometime later I was walking into a hf store, and I found a set of 2 gage CCA for the very same price as the used set that I just picked up. That had me thinking would both sets work the same?

I found the following video and I thought some of you might enjoy the results.

The link for the hf set:

20 ft. 2 Gauge Super Heavy Duty Jumper Cables

Amazing deals on this 20Ft 2 Gauge Heavy Duty Jumper Cables at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.

www.harborfreight.com

Turns out Dad was a pretty smart man.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

CCA is garbage

 

[dcg9381]

HF and "2 gauge" - hope you brought a caliper.

 

[The Cobbler]

no surprises there.

 

[Snapped-off]

HF and "2 gauge" - hope you brought a caliper.

Probably including the insulation. Looks like they sell 1 gauge too.

 

[Norcal]

10, 12, 14 AWG copper clad aluminum is allowed in the NEC, and starting to be more common, another reason to be VERY skeptical about new tract homes. Previously 12 AWG aluminum was the smallest allowed, but since 10 amp lighting circuits are a newer addition to the NEC, 14 AWG CCA is allowed in newer editions.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

10, 12, 14 AWG copper clad aluminum is allowed in the NEC, and starting to be more common, another reason to be VERY skeptical about new tract homes. Previously 12 AWG aluminum was the smallest allowed, but since 10 amp lighting circuits are a newer addition to the NEC, 14 AWG CCA is allowed in newer editions.

the video is about jumper cables not building wiring...

 

[Norcal]

the video is about jumper cables not building wiring...

I know, that **** is creeping everywhere.

 

[dutchgray]

I have a set of jumper cables made out of 50 Sq mm aluminium welding cable ( about a 400A continuous rating), it does have a lower current rating than copper, I think roughly equivalent to the next size down copper cable, they are nice and light weight though.

 

[bwringer]

Can someone summarize the video? I couldn't sit still for 32 minutes of mumbling.

A few years ago, I went on a quest for jumper cables actually made with copper.

I know everyone, including me, uses jump packs now, but what do you do when the electronics have failed, or the battery has quietly discharged? A decent set of jumper cables should last a lifetime, while jump packs will never last more than a year or two of lying around, maybe three if you're lucky and remember to keep the battery charged. For example, I had a Noco jump starter, a well-regarded brand, that had insanely stupid touch controls. It was forever turning itself on when jostled and running down the battery.

Anyway, if you're going to make stuff with imitation copper, at least be up-front about the fact, and that you need to upsize the cable in order to carry a useful amount of current. However, you have to search the packaging and specs with an eagle eye in order to spot this; quite often the words "Copper Coated Aluminum" never appeared, only the acronym "CCA" in the tiniest possible print.

There were some cables that didn't mention this at all in the specs or packaging, and didn't reveal their deception until they were in hand and you could notice the unusually light weight, and get a look at the cut end inside the clamps to see the telltale smeared silvery aluminum.

The fact that attempted deception is so universal tells me all I need to know about the actual performance of CCA.

 

[mm08822]

Can someone summarize the video? I couldn't sit still for 32 minutes of mumbling.

A few years ago, I went on a quest for jumper cables actually made with copper.

I know everyone, including me, uses jump packs now, but what do you do when the electronics have failed, or the battery has quietly discharged? A decent set of jumper cables should last a lifetime, while jump packs will never last more than a year or two of lying around, maybe three if you're lucky and remember to keep the battery charged. For example, I had a Noco jump starter, a well-regarded brand, that had insanely stupid touch controls. It was forever turning itself on when jostled and running down the battery.

Anyway, if you're going to make stuff with imitation copper, at least be up-front about the fact, and that you need to upsize the cable in order to carry a useful amount of current. However, you have to search the packaging and specs with an eagle eye in order to spot this; quite often the words "Copper Coated Aluminum" never appeared, only the acronym "CCA" in the tiniest possible print.

There were some cables that didn't mention this at all in the specs or packaging, and didn't reveal their deception until they were in hand and you could notice the unusually light weight, and get a look at the cut end inside the clamps to see the telltale smeared silvery aluminum.

The fact that attempted deception is so universal tells me all I need to know about the actual performance of CCA.

At least in the case of HF, their product description is up front about materials of construction. Whether the end-user knows the impact of this detail is another story. Rest assured, every mfr is trying to be cost competitve and some of those methods aren't to the benefit of the consumer.
Buyer Beware!!

​

 

[mike93lx]

CCA is fine, it just needs to be up sized, same as aluminum wiring in a house.

It is not a direct replacement for copper

 

[u2slow]

Careful about jumper cable lengths too. When the gauge goes up, they tend to be made longer - cancelling the voltage drop you're trying to counter.

10' is about all I want to jump one of my diesels.

 

[75gmck25]

I think the main reason most folks now use jump jacks is that they believe it's less risky for the electronics in the new vehicles. Most owners are risk averse, especially when owners manuals tell you to not use jumper cables.

My guess is that the new car's electronics can't manage the spikes created by two alternators powering the vehicle at the same time as the dead car starts up. Or maybe the good vehicle can't manage the sudden high amperage draw from the starter on the other vehicle. On some vehicles (Toyota?) they have charge points in the engine compartment that are supposed to be used for even something as simple as a trickle charger.

 

[nadogail]

Aluminum wire has never been the equivalent of Copper, Copper Covered Aluminum is still aluminum

 

[The Cobbler]

I'll hang on to my 2 regular sets of pure copper booster cables and my 25' set with full copper jaws

 

[Norcal]

I'll hang on to my 2 regular sets of pure copper booster cables and my 25' set with full copper jaws

Are sure they are not copper plated steel?

 

[The Cobbler]

pure copper, got them when I worked in the auto electrical shop. they were pricey even in 1985 ( ish) with employee discount . mostly sold them to Heavy truck repair places .
similar , if not the same as these https://www.batteryspecialist.ca/bo...99Haf30iMCFIHI4PmPUgF-dGJHomHsvMaAgfYEALw_wcB

 

[dscheidt]

Are sure they are not copper plated steel?

Copper jumper cable jaws exist (or at least, used to). Good ones have a jumper wire connecting the two jaws, so they make a good connection on both sides, which is important when you're putting 1000 amps through them.

 

[LopezBart]

Make 'em out of copper welding wire... bring money if you want the start anything kind:

1/0 Gauge 25ft Jumper Cables 100% Copper 1000A | Polar Wire - Polar Wire

1/0 gauge 25ft commercial jumper cables with Arctic Superflex Blue® wire and 1000A dual live jaw copper clamps. Flexible to -67F. Made in USA.

store.polarwire.com

- Bart

 

[CJM8515]

the difference in cca vs copper is noticeable, as is the wire gauge. thinner gauge wiring overall does not carry as much current i find and cca vs copper-no comparison. every single real deal jumpack i took apart (talking pro models) uses pure copper welding wire.

 

[mike93lx]

the difference in cca vs copper is noticeable, as is the wire gauge. thinner gauge wiring overall does not carry as much current i find and cca vs copper-no comparison. every single real deal jumpack i took apart (talking pro models) uses pure copper welding wire.

Its just physics. CCA requires upsizing, no one here is arguing that, but that is almost certainly not something commonly know. Copper is more expensive, so you can choose what works best for you.

The car does not car what the wire is made of and if appropriately sized, it will start just the same

 

[LopezBart]

The car does not car what the wire is made of and if appropriately sized, it will start just the same

After all, most of our shops rely on aluminum wire to the service panel to run our welders, machine tools, etc.

 

[Old tool guy]

What are “live jaw clamps”? Do you have to feed them?

Wife was at the local community center last week playing mahjong. Calls me … honda odyssey won't start. 2021 model, clearly honda quality is suffering. Went to help, sure enough no click, no dome light … nothing. There was a harbor freight 3 blocks away, bought a set of jumper cables, madevthe connection and after a few tries it started up.

Went to the auto parts store for a new battery ... wow. They started at $250 and went up.

 

[LopezBart]

Went to the auto parts store for a new battery ... wow. They started at $250 and went up.

I'd read up on this: https://www.odyclub.com/threads/wtf-is-up-is-with-the-battery.370572/

 

[wyliesdiesels]

What are “live jaw clamps”? Do you have to feed them?

Wife was at the local community center last week playing mahjong. Calls me … honda odyssey won't start. 2021 model, clearly honda quality is suffering. Went to help, sure enough no click, no dome light … nothing. There was a harbor freight 3 blocks away, bought a set of jumper cables, madevthe connection and after a few tries it started up.

Went to the auto parts store for a new battery ... wow. They started at $250 and went up.

Holy schnikes. Try costco next time. Way cheaper than that

 

[mike93lx]

Holy schnikes. Try costco next time. Way cheaper than that

For an agm battery?

 

[American Locomotive]

Car batteries have absolutely skyrocketed in price. You know it's all a huge racket when the tiny little Honda Civic 400cca "Duralast Gold" has the exact same price as the big honkin' diesel-truck 900 CCA battery.

 

[LopezBart]

The use of AGM batteries sure drives up the price; as a long time motorcycle rider, I've bought a lot of expensive but very compact batteries. Miatas are another vehicle w/ an expensive battery. Car engineers trade off size/weight/cost; AGM batteries have better cold cranking amps and generally survive heavy and deep discharge better than regular batteries, but they cost.

 

[ObnoxiousFumes]

Make 'em out of copper welding wire... bring money if you want the start anything kind:

1/0 Gauge 25ft Jumper Cables 100% Copper 1000A | Polar Wire - Polar Wire

1/0 gauge 25ft commercial jumper cables with Arctic Superflex Blue® wire and 1000A dual live jaw copper clamps. Flexible to -67F. Made in USA.

store.polarwire.com

- Bart

Yep that’s the best way in my opinion.

 

[dscheidt]

Make 'em out of copper welding wire... bring money if you want the start anything kind:

1/0 Gauge 25ft Jumper Cables 100% Copper 1000A | Polar Wire - Polar Wire

1/0 gauge 25ft commercial jumper cables with Arctic Superflex Blue® wire and 1000A dual live jaw copper clamps. Flexible to -67F. Made in USA.

store.polarwire.com

- Bart

When I was driving a tow truck, one of our fleet customers (a welding contractor) gave me a 100' piece of 1/0 that some other sub on a job had severed almost pefectly in half. I made a pair of 45' jumper cables out of it. we used a jump pack most of the time, but when it was really cold, or you had a really dead vehicle it was great to be able to back up the rear bumper of the customer, and still be able to reach. same for when the car was in a garage. but boy were they heavy.

 

[cannuck]

Surprised that nobody brought up the insulation as a factor. The $400 USA made link flexible down to -67F is what really matters in jumper cables. I have as yet seen ANY Chinese wire that is flexible at even the most modest of winter temps. When it cracks (and it WILL) you have a lot of expensive junk on your hands and China will send you a Christmas card when you are on your 4rth or 5th replacement for what SHOULD be a once-in-a-lifetime investment.

 

[mike93lx]

Surprised that nobody brought up the insulation as a factor. The $400 USA made link flexible down to -67F is what really matters in jumper cables. I have as yet seen ANY Chinese wire that is flexible at even the most modest of winter temps. When it cracks (and it WILL) you have a lot of expensive junk on your hands and China will send you a Christmas card when you are on your 4rth or 5th replacement for what SHOULD be a once-in-a-lifetime investment.

Your modest winter temps don't even occur in a lot of places. - 20F would be like an damn ice age down here

 

[acer66]

Car batteries have absolutely skyrocketed in price. You know it's all a huge racket when the tiny little Honda Civic 400cca "Duralast Gold" has the exact same price as the big honkin' diesel-truck 900 CCA battery.

Yeah, friends 02 Golf 2.0L battery was way over $200.

 

[AA/FC]

Can someone summarize the video? I couldn't sit still for 32 minutes of mumbling.

A few years ago, I went on a quest for jumper cables actually made with copper.

I know everyone, including me, uses jump packs now, but what do you do when the electronics have failed, or the battery has quietly discharged? A decent set of jumper cables should last a lifetime, while jump packs will never last more than a year or two of lying around, maybe three if you're lucky and remember to keep the battery charged. For example, I had a Noco jump starter, a well-regarded brand, that had insanely stupid touch controls. It was forever turning itself on when jostled and running down the battery.

Anyway, if you're going to make stuff with imitation copper, at least be up-front about the fact, and that you need to upsize the cable in order to carry a useful amount of current. However, you have to search the packaging and specs with an eagle eye in order to spot this; quite often the words "Copper Coated Aluminum" never appeared, only the acronym "CCA" in the tiniest possible print.

There were some cables that didn't mention this at all in the specs or packaging, and didn't reveal their deception until they were in hand and you could notice the unusually light weight, and get a look at the cut end inside the clamps to see the telltale smeared silvery aluminum.

The fact that attempted deception is so universal tells me all I need to know about the actual performance of CCA.

I was on a quest for 100% copper cables myself, many years ago.... I found that I could immediately tell if a set was cca or 100% copper just buy looking at the price. The price will always tell the truth.

 

[ObnoxiousFumes]

Your modest winter temps don't even occur in a lot of places. - 20F would be like an damn ice age down here

And in those other places you speak of, I wonder how often jumper cables are even needed...

 

[LopezBart]

And in those other places you speak of, I wonder how often jumper cables are even needed...

Oftentimes people don't realize their battery is getting weak until it fails to start their vehicle, usually when it's colder than normal. Of course, the prepared readers of GJ wouldn't fall into such a trap - but it's nice to have jumper cables to be able to start the cars and trucks of friends and neighbors who are less savvy.