Copper Compressed Air Project

[touchton]

I'm going to add compressed air to my basement garage. I've decided to use copper for the air lines. I don't do any 'professional' type work in my garage. Just basic motorcycle/scooter maintenance at this point. I'm going to get a 60 gallon compressor from Lowe's or Northern Tool.

The compressor will go into a large closet that's beside the garage. The closet is about 7' by 20'. The main line will run vertically up the wall then horizontally into the garage. In the garage it will attach to the 2x4s that are used to mount the garage door rails. It will do this across two garage doors; a 10' door through a wall and across a 8' door. The main line will have 4 drops. Most of these drops will just feed one air 'port'. One will drop down and run horizontally across the wall and supply three 'ports'. There will be one more line that runs across the ceiling to a retractable hose mounted to the ceiling. The 'main' line will be no more than 30'. Each drop will come down about 5'. The one horizontal run will be about 8'. So, all total there will be no more that 70' of copper line.

My plan is for each drop I'll go vertical out of a 'tee' then use two 90's to run down the wall. I understand this will help to keep water away from the 'ports'.

I'll take some pictures and make a drawing of what I'm wanting to do and post it here.

My questions at this point are:

1. I know I want the main line to not be level so that the water will go to the lowest point. Does it matter if the lowest point is closest to the compressor or should it be at the far end? I would like to have the lowest point at the compressor end. That way I can drain the line right at the same point I'm draining the compressor.

2. Should I put a shutoff valve on each of the drops?

3. What sort of shutoff valves should I be looking at?

4. I think I can get a better deal on the fittings by ordering on the Internet. I've been looking at PexSupply.com and their prices on Cello fittings are much cheaper that what I can get locally. I'll by the pipe locally. Any suggestions on good places to shop for fittings?

5. What type of solider do I need?

6. For each drop I'm planning to go up then down. How far should I go to keep water out of the drops? Is 6" enough?

Thanks for any input you can offer. I'll draw up a plan and take some pictures of the garage and post them in the next couple of days.

Thad

 

[roofster]

You might search TP tools for their piping diagram, that may help with questions 1 & 6. I don't want the water in my tank. It rusts it and then gets re-distributed if not drained. I'd slope to first drop and try to collect at a drip leg there.

2) No-why?
3) if any valves, ball valves are easiest.
4) are you using 1/2"? my local BBOX gets like $.35 for a 1/2" elbow. Fitting will be small cost after pipe and if buy local easy to return extras.
5) 95/5 solid (no rosin)
6) See TP tools diagram. 6" would be overkill.

 

[Fixnair]

I might suggest you come off your header from the top & then over & down. I know it's a lot of work but you will get a lot less moisture in your drops. Slope your header away from your compressor and install a drip leg at the end for draining purposes.
Do everything you can to cool the air as it exits the compressor. Cooling it will cause the moisture (as a gas) to condense and fall into the tank. Cooling it to near ambient before it goes into the tank will remove about 70% of the moisture.

 

[jwith68]

My thoughts below in blue.

My plan is for each drop I'll go vertical out of a 'tee' then use two 90's to run down the wall. I understand this will help to keep water away from the 'ports'. Yes, vertically up, then 180° back down - that's the correct way.

I'll take some pictures and make a drawing of what I'm wanting to do and post it here.

My questions at this point are:

1. I know I want the main line to not be level so that the water will go to the lowest point. Does it matter if the lowest point is closest to the compressor or should it be at the far end? I would like to have the lowest point at the compressor end. That way I can drain the line right at the same point I'm draining the compressor. Probably best at the far end instead - that's the direction air flow will carry the condensate. You could do a dedicated drain out, or not come off the top with your last drop, and make it your final drain point. This is what I did, and it has worked fine.

2. Should I put a shutoff valve on each of the drops? Not necessary, IMO.

3. What sort of shutoff valves should I be looking at? Use ball valves where you do choose to have shutoffs.

4. I think I can get a better deal on the fittings by ordering on the Internet. I've been looking at PexSupply.com and their prices on Cello fittings are much cheaper that what I can get locally. I'll by the pipe locally. Any suggestions on good places to shop for fittings? Local plumbing supply houses usually have regular 1/2" and 3/4" common fittings pretty cheap.

5. What type of solider do I need? Regular no-lead plumbing solder & appropriate flux work fine. If you want something even better, look at Harris Stay-Brite 8. Great system, but its expensive.

6. For each drop I'm planning to go up then down. How far should I go to keep water out of the drops? Is 6" enough? My drops have a ~6" drip leg at the bottom with a drain ****, which has worked well. The only places I went down then back up were on the two end drops, which I am using as my end-run drains, as mentioned in (1.) above.

Thanks for any input you can offer. I'll draw up a plan and take some pictures of the garage and post them in the next couple of days. Please do, we'd like to see them, and the finished system. Nice to see someone else here in the 201x's using something other than 191x's black iron.

Thad

 

[Spareparts]

On your drops use "Street Ells", they have a male and female end and save time and material. As far as valves I put one above the port and one below the port for the drain and then run the drain line close to the floor to avoid staining the wall.

 

[rjwilliams]

Shops may use a shut off at each drop to secure air to a single location while replacing a quick disconnect or fixing a leak without securing air to the entire shop.

 

[touchton]

Thanks for all the suggestions. So, at this point I'm planning to slope the main line away from the compressor and installing a drip leg at the end for draining. I'm not going to install a valve on each drop.

Here are pictures showing where the main line will run. It will be attached to the vertical 2x4s that are used for the garage door rails.

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This is where the compressor will be installed. The main line will go up and turn 90 degrees to the right through the wall. I already have power pulled to the compressor location.

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The main line will enter on the left and attach to the 2x4 that holds the door rail. The first drop will be to the left of the door.

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The main line will continue across the door and through the wall on the right. The second drop will be on the right side of the garage door.

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The main line will enter through this wall and continue across this garage door. You can see there's a chase that will limit the overall height of the main line here. I'll need to be under it. There will be another drop in this corner and it will run horizontally across this wall.

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The main line continues across this door. To the right of the rail for the garage door opener I intend to install a retractable hose on the ceiling. That drop will actually go up from the main line. I just need to come away from the door far enough so I can use it with the door open. The last drop and the end of the main line will be to the right of this door.

The two drops in the first garage I'll be able to go up 6" or so and drop down. I won't put a drain on those lines. The drop on the left side of the second garage will most likely require a drain at the end. And, the final drop will not go vertical and will have a drain. Do I just use a ball valve on the end for the drain?

As you can see the main line will be mounted to the 2x4s. Will that be enough mount points to secure the main line to the wall? The drops will just come down the drywall. Is it important that I try to bring the drops down a stud for mounting?

I'm planning to install a regulator and filter next to the compressor. I'll have the only shut off valve there. I know there will be a drain at the bottom of the compressor. Should I have another drain before or after the regulator/filter?

I hope to buy some copper this week and start putting this together. I think I'll start at the far end of the run and work back toward the compressor. The biggest limiting obstacle is that chase in the second garage.

Thad

 

[touchton]

I plan to acquire most of the hardware for the copper lines this week. I don't know if I'll get it installed because it's unusually cold.............

Couple of questions:

For the threaded connections; should I use Teflon tape or Loctite 567? Are there better options. I want this to be as leak free as possible.

I have the compressor and lines figured out, but what do I need to connect the two? From the compressor should I go into a regulator/filter assembly and then to the main line? I know I need to use a flexible line to attach to the compressor.

Thanks for your input.

Thad

 

[Firebrand]

I am a convert to Loctite 567 as it has saved the day on my home snowmaking system many times. Great product! I use lots of air as part of the nucleation system to seed the bulk water while snowmaking. My air comes from a Champion VR5-8 5hp/18CFM compressor and is fed out through a 1" fire hose for the first 50' and then adapted down to a 5/8" rubber garden hose converted to airline to help prevent freeze-ups outside during long operation runs.

 

[volleyball]

Copper is pricey. What about those aluminum kits? No brainer installation too.
I have a drip leg on my furthest run with a valve on it. The water collect there until I open the valve.
I would think running the pipe over the garage door opening might not be the best idea depending on the use. I have outlets through the wall to the exterior but in cold, I only use it for airing up tires.

 

[Brad Beam]

I am a convert to Loctite 567 as it has saved the day on my home snowmaking system many times. Great product! I use lots of air as part of the nucleation system to seed the bulk water while snowmaking. My air comes from a Champion VR5-8 5hp/18CFM compressor and is fed out through a 1" fire hose for the first 50' and then adapted down to a 5/8" rubber garden hose converted to airline to help prevent freeze-ups outside during long operation runs.

Tell me more about your snow maker I need one of those.

Thanks

 

[Jarhead01]

will the "closet" that the compressor is in have some sort of air circulation? those compressor can heat up more than a person thinks. I know in one of the shops I work in we had to put holes in the wall that our compressors were in because they overheated. there was only 2 compressors in a room about 12x14 and in the summer that room got really hot even with the venting holes in the wall. just something to think about.

 

[stage20]

Copper pricey but wwill only have to buy it once

 

[touchton]

I have a question about terminating the copper lines. There are a couple of places where I know I'll terminate with a 1/2" to 1/4" female adapter. I'll do that where the line meets the compressor and where I have a retractable hose reel. Both will be connected via a short flexible line that have male 1/4" NPT connectors.

What should I use to connect to the quick disconnects? It looks like the quick disconnects can come in either a male of female configuration. Is there a preferred method to do this? At Lowes I can get the 1/2" to 1/4" female adapters. The male equivalent may need to be ordered. If one is better than the other, let me know. Most of the pictures I've seen show 1/2" to 1/2" NPT then a threaded reduce to 1/4" NPT. I'm thinking the less threaded connections, the better......

Thanks.
Thad

 

[djjsr]

Just one option. I used drop ear elbows. One side gets soldered and the other is threaded. Also provides good mounting.

 

[Ross/Kzoo]

Just one option. I used drop ear elbows. One side gets soldered and the other is threaded. Also provides good mounting.

That looks good but what do you do about a drip pipe?

 

[usmc_noma]

That would be nice if there was a "T" just like that. Use one for the drop and the other for the too.

 

[touchton]

The drop ear elbows look good, but they require a threaded adapter to match up with the quick disconnect. That's what I'm wanting to avoid.

Here is one thing I'm considering. In the pictures below there's a 1/4" NPT insert that will go into a 'T' or standard elbow. This gives a fairly low profile and doesn't require a threaded adapter.

Do you see any issues with this approach?

 

[spongerich]

Just use PVC... I mean, what's the worst that can happen?*


*Note - Don't actually use PVC

I've got a short copper setup. I'm going to be adding more runs and I'm seriously considering using Pex-Al-Pex instead. It'll be cheaper and easier to install and easier to change things up later if I want to move stuff around.

 

[djjsr]

That looks good but what do you do about a drip pipe?

I don't have much water but once in a while I just plug in a valve and let it blow out.

 

[Mr onetwo]

That looks good but what do you do about a drip pipe?

They make 'em...very pricey, but the right way to do it in a non-ferrous system http://www.nibco.com/Fittings/Metal...re-Fittings/712-5-LF-Drop-Tee-C-x-C-x-F-Cast/

 

[Ross/Kzoo]

They make 'em...very pricey, but the right way to do it in a non-ferrous system http://www.nibco.com/Fittings/Metal...re-Fittings/712-5-LF-Drop-Tee-C-x-C-x-F-Cast/

I would say, $12.59 to $18.

 

[Motown 454]

Is there a special grade copper pipe to use ? I don't know much about the different types of copper. pipe.

 

[saceone]

I did mine with black metal pipe. I am a GC in Montréal and I had my sprinkler guy cut and thread the pieces...copper was way too expensive for me

 

[Ross/Kzoo]

I did mine with black metal pipe. I am a GC in Montréal and I had my sprinkler guy cut and thread the pieces...copper was way too expensive for me

It may not be if you had to pay for threading.

 

[touchton]

Is there a special grade copper pipe to use ? I don't know much about the different types of copper. pipe.

As I understand it there's K, L, and M. K being the thickest, but I haven't found that at Home Depot of Lowes. They both carry L and M. L is the thicker of those two. I'm using L for my compressed air lines, but I was told both L and M would work. I'm going with 1/2" for all of my lines as well. It's a relatively simple garage setup. More 'hobby' type activities than 'production'.......

Thad

 

[djjsr]

Below is a link to the copper tube handbook (pdf file). It contains everything you want to know. Scroll down to the pressure tables 3a, 3b and 3c starting around page 24 or so.

http://www.copper.org/publications/pub_list/pdf/copper_tube_handbook.pdf

 

[Motown 454]

djjsr Thank you for the link.

 

[akdiesel]

Next time you are in Lowes or Home Depot pick up a copy of Pipe Fitter Blue Book. They are usually at the check out counters. Lots of info on piping. Some of it you may never use but very useful info.

 

[compressornew]

The drop ear elbows look good, but they require a threaded adapter to match up with the quick disconnect. That's what I'm wanting to avoid.

Here is one thing I'm considering. In the pictures below there's a 1/4" NPT insert that will go into a 'T' or standard elbow. This gives a fairly low profile and doesn't require a threaded adapter.

Do you see any issues with this approach?

This valves fit top to bottom pipes connection and passes a compressed air into machine.Fix it with adhesives and sealing pipes.

 

[GYPSY400]

For the threaded connections; should I use Teflon tape or Loctite 567? Are there better options. I want this to be as leak free as possible.

Thanks for your input.

Thad

I used to use pipe "dope" all the time at work.. thinking that the fluid aspect of it actually got into the threads. . One time I had a leak, and I fixed it with teflon tape.. Ever since ive used the tape.. I do find that the joints thread easier as the teflon seems to cut down friction.


Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk

 

[volleyball]

Epoxy would eliminate all those leaks. Just don't try to take it apart.
Running a 2 stage, I use the ball valve at the tank to keep it full and live with the leak loss. It isn't much but it would cause the pump to come on in a day or 2.

 

[LifeLongWNYer]

Copper is only a little more expensive here than black iron, but I can solder copper easier than I can thread pipe. I already have a torch, but I'd need to borrow / buy / steal a threading machine if I go with black iron.

Then, if i want to do a "down the road" modify, I need to get all the threading equipment back again.

Lastly, I've seen the inside of some black iron that had "wet air" in it. Pretty junky, plus all that stuff ends up in the tools. Copper doesn't get crappy when it has moist air running through it.

.

 

[flat350]

....

 

[touchton]

I'm making progress...... I've run the copper line and Lowe's is delivering the compressor on Thursday. I have feet to install on the compressor and I'm going to remove the drain and install a line that runs to a small ball valve. That's the only thing I don't like about the Kobalt 60 gallon compressor....

Here are pictures of the copper lines. I mounted and painted a 1x4 wherever I was running a line. That gave me something more stable than drywall to attach the copper lines to. I installed more ball valves than needed. I can pretty much shut off any of the 4 segments. There are 3 drains; one close to the compressor, one at the very end, and another along a horizontal run across a wall.

Here are some pictures of my work starting at the far end and working back toward the compressor:

 

[touchton]

Done

Lowe's delivered the compressor yesterday and I hooked it up. I'm proud to say there were no significant leaks in all the joints I soldered. I think there were 98 total joints in the project.....

Here's the compressor installed.


Here's a picture of how I modified the tank drain to make it easier to use. Without this, I don't think I would have drained the tank as frequently as I should. Also, this shows the rubber feet I installed on the compressor.



The compressor isn't as loud as I thought it would be. All in all, I'm very happy with the way this turned out. Thanks for everyone who offered insight and/or advice.

Thad

 

[4AudiQ]

 

[Ross/Kzoo]

Re: Done

Lowe's delivered the compressor yesterday and I hooked it up. I'm proud to say there were no significant leaks in all the joints I soldered. I think there were 98 total joints in the project.....

Here's the compressor installed.


Here's a picture of how I modified the tank drain to make it easier to use. Without this, I don't think I would have drained the tank as frequently as I should. Also, this shows the rubber feet I installed on the compressor.



The compressor isn't as loud as I thought it would be. All in all, I'm very happy with the way this turned out. Thanks for everyone who offered insight and/or advice.

Thad

That looks good. What did you use for your rubber feet?

 

[touchton]

Re: Done

What did you use for your rubber feet?

I used rubber isolators from Grainger:

Vibration Isolator,310 Lb Max,3/8-16
Item No: 2NPG6

 

[Bobaloo22]

Great Job! I need to get rid of the rubber lines in my shop on of these days.


Bob