Copper fin pipe for cooling compressed air

[shamrock12]

Just recently bought a new Champion 5hp air compressor for my shop Now it's time for me to design an air line system. I am thinking about running a few lengths of 3/4" or 1" copper pipe with fins for cooling the compressed air before going through water separator, filters, etc. Very similar to baseboard heater, it should transfer the heat away from the source very efficiently. The only issue is, where can I find them? I am thinking about 40 or 60 feet loop which is probably overkill, but I like dry air

I plan to use 3/4" black pipe as the main air line AFTER the filters, with 1/2" drop-offs.

 

[RPH]

Check this
http://www.slantfin.com/index.php/products/baseboard-residential/fin-tube--bare-elements

 

[motorcycle79]

Just beware some fin tube is paper thin copper not sure what pressure it is good for. I just looked quick above and looks like they make thicker stuff.

 

[zcar751]

That would be excellent for an air dryer. To bad they don't sell the stuff down south. I looked and couldn't find any. I guess one of the downsides to living in the land of forced air HVAC

 

[J Persons]

I've completed the first phase of by compressor piping, using 3/4" black pipe for the main runs, and 1/2" pipe for the drops. I'm using the TP Tools plan that incorporates moisture traps as well as filters/separators. I live in a very humid area, usually 70% to 90% humidity and 90°+ temps in the summer. So far, my air is moisture free, the traps are doing their job and what little moisture that gets by them is collected by the water separator at the blast cabinet. at the end of the day, I get moisture at the trap bleed valves, but very little at the separator.
I had plans to build a desiccant dryer, but at this point I don't think it will be necessary.

 

[EOC_Jason]

I've always thought about modifying an old AC condensing unit that had a bad compressor. Pull the compressor out and pipe together the loose ends. Then you have a huge air cooling unit ready to go.

 

[Chandos]

Where'd you get the finned pipe? I've been looking.

Thanks,

CHandos

 

[Boyd]

I've always thought about modifying an old AC condensing unit that had a bad compressor. Pull the compressor out and pipe together the loose ends. Then you have a huge air cooling unit ready to go.

That's odd. I've thought about the same idea for a few years now, just haven't gotten around to it yet.

 

[Fixnair]

Great idea. I've been in the business for 50 years and have always known of the stuff but not who makes it. You can also got finned tubing with short copper wires extending internally to enhance heat transfer. Similar to a tubing brush the entire length of the tube. Using something like that would probably have an approach temperature of 15* in about 20 feet for a 5 HP compressor.

 

[Mr onetwo]

Try these guys http://www.finnedtube.com/ or http://www.fintube.com/index.html These look just like the intercooler on my IR compressor.

 

[ez-duzit]

Isn't this an expensive approach?

 

[Vegaman_Dan]

There have been a few threads here using automotive automatic transmission coolers for this purpose. I'd think they would blow out, but it seems to be working.

 

[uhcrandy]

Why cant you use the Air conditioner heat exchanger (i ma sure wrong word) from an auto? What pressure does an A/C run?

 

[dbonne]

I've used auto A/C condensors a couple of times for air projects, they work well, use SAE flare fittings on the aluminum tubing, get a fan to push some air across it and you will be in fat city. Inlet on the top, outlet on the bottom.

 

[JamieK]

Why cant you use the Air conditioner heat exchanger (i ma sure wrong word) from an auto? What pressure does an A/C run?

The condensor (the part in front of the radiator) is on the high pressure side and should withstand pressures of at least 300 psi. So it would be fine for compressed air. The evaporator (under the dash) is on the low pressure side, and sees maybe 80 psi when the system is at rest.

I've thought about using a condensor and electric fan combo from the junkyard. Should make a fairly flat package that could be mounted on the wall over the compressor. Would have to make up the hose connections, though.

 

[Albiemanmike]

The condensor (the part in front of the radiator) is on the high pressure side and should withstand pressures of at least 300 psi. So it would be fine for compressed air. The evaporator (under the dash) is on the low pressure side, and sees maybe 80 psi when the system is at rest.

I've thought about using a condensor and electric fan combo from the junkyard. Should make a fairly flat package that could be mounted on the wall over the compressor. Would have to make up the hose connections, though.

I did this recently and it works fantastic and was rather inexpensive. The brass and copper tubing is what cost the most for my project. I got the condenser from a junk yard off of a Ford Explorer and it has been hooked up for 2-3 months without issue. I even removed my cheapo HF auto drain valve as it wasn't doing anything at all.

 

[Hop2it]

RPH,the finned tube on the website you posted is designed for baseboard heating which has a operating pressure of 12 lbs. the pressure relief valves are set for 30 lbs I don't think it would be wise to use it on a air system.Doug

 

[lynnbilodeau]

I had to replace one of our condensing units last summer. I saved the old condenser for just this reason. The compressor is bad but the fan still works. When I build my workshop, I plan to put the condensing unit outside and run my air through it. I plan to wire the fan to come on when my compressor comes on. Probably overkill, but hey, its free.

I am guessing it would be best to get the air through the condenser before going into my tank, correct?

 

[EOC_Jason]

I had to replace one of our condensing units last summer. I saved the old condenser for just this reason. The compressor is bad but the fan still works. When I build my workshop, I plan to put the condensing unit outside and run my air through it. I plan to wire the fan to come on when my compressor comes on. Probably overkill, but hey, its free.

I am guessing it would be best to get the air through the condenser before going into my tank, correct?

Yes that would be best, but then you will probably need some sort of auto-drain after your condenser depending on the distances, or your tank will end up with all the water in it.

 

[Fixnair]

With a flat condenser you don't really need a fan. With a little handy work, mount the condenser in front of the compressor flywheel/fan & there you have it. Tricky part is the plumbing. You don't really need a separator after the cooler, just let the air and condensate flow into the tank & remove it with an automatic drain.

 

[mmouse]

A/C condenser from a car is a great idea! Any idea how much it will kill your CFM?

 

[Fixnair]

It won't affect your CFM at all. Every bit of compressed air that goes in will go out. Providing the condenser is of sufficient size. Most automotive condensers will flow enough air for the typical home owner with a Chinese branded 5 horsepower motor. I wouldn't try it with a 10 HP compressor though.

 

[01ss]

There have been a few threads here using automotive automatic transmission coolers for this purpose. I'd think they would blow out, but it seems to be working.

Did you just say that? Auto transmissions (and their coolers) live in the world of 200+ psi and 200-225* all day every day. You're air compressor is a sunny vacation for them. Torque converters can exit 300 degree fluid being sent to the cooler to be cooled before returning to the trans.

 

[J Persons]

Automotive transmission coolers are plumbed into the return side of the pump, there is very little pressure on a trans cooler, just flow. Engine oil coolers are under pressure, but it's usually under 100 PSI.

 

[Duck tape Bill]

I recently contacted the people at Derale about thier 7000 series transmission coolers; http://www.derale.com/products/coolers/universal/series-7000-tube-fin2013-10-28-09-53-271281414118

Here is my email:
I am plumbing air lines in my home garage and I want to fabricate an aftercooler for my compressor. What I need to know is; what is the maximum working pressure of the 13221 transmission cooler? If it's >150psi then it should work. If you could let me know the working pressure that would be great. Thanks.

...and their response:
They are rated to 300psi so you should be perfectly fine.

Most of their coolers are in the $30-60 range on Amazon, so pretty cheep compared to some others out there. I'm eventually going to use one of their coolers to add an aftercooler to my compressor... If I ever get the time.

 

[59 wagon man]

haven't bought any in 15 yrs but i believe you can buy 1" black steel finned tubing in up to 6' lengths from slantfin

 

[01ss]

Automotive transmission coolers are plumbed into the return side of the pump, there is very little pressure on a trans cooler, just flow. Engine oil coolers are under pressure, but it's usually under 100 PSI.

You owe me a computer monitor. I just beat my head against it after reading your response. I can't stand people who don't know **** but post it anyway.

 

[J Persons]

You owe me a computer monitor. I just beat my head against it after reading your response. I can't stand people who don't know **** but post it anyway.

If you don't like my response, please post what you think is the correct answer. By the way, you have the distinction of being first and only name on my ignore list.

 

[djjsr]

Transmission line pressures .........

http://www.tciauto.com/tc/trans-line-pressure/

 

[wbrian63]

I think there are separate circuits for transmission "activity" - the pressure circuits that control the application of the clutches and bands, and the cooling circuit that handles sending the fluid out from the transmission to the cooler.

The "line pressures" noted in the previous posting are for the various gear positions.

That doesn't mean necessarily that the cooling circuit doesn't have high pressure in it, but the term "line pressure" doesn't necessarily mean that it does, either.

For what it's worth, I had a cooling line come detatched on and old 77 Grand Prix that I owned. It had a factory (or maybe dealer) installed add-on cooler that came as part of a towing package. The cooler was mounted to the front of the condensor on a special frame - not with the usual aftermarket through-the-condensor method (that's why I think it was factory/dealer installed.)
Anyway - going up a ramp in the parking garage at work and one of the rubber hoses that bridged the aux cooler into the regular system came off. Car had no issues making the climb up the ramp, despite a fair amount of transmission oil being dumped. The resulting mess was terrible, but it didn't have a far-and-wide broadcast as one would expect from a high-pressure line.

 

[sberry]

I had considered some kind of hydro cooled radiator. I got cold well water right there wouldn't take but a pinch to cool a section of pipe type Franzinator deal. I happened to have my paint air way on down the line, by the time it gets there it seems fine.

We put a little filter and replumbed it, maybe removed the coupling, it was a fast deal. Lets you regulate for paint work locally to that one reel and its only 25 ft, normally fine on small work and simply add another 15 ft of hose for big jobs as needed.

 

[gahrajmahal]

I for one am ready to see some photos of these installs. A breakdown of fittings and hoses used would be cool too.

 

[compaddict]

I just used some copper tube with three down tubes to catch water. Seems to work.
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[brianpgriset]

I for one am ready to see some photos of these installs. A breakdown of fittings and hoses used would be cool too.

http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50946

Start reading!

 

[wapatooie]

I know that this thread is old, but... I have used and old condenser from a house. I found that a radiator, or better yet, a transmission cooling radiator works the best and can be picked up pretty cheap from a wrecking yard.

 

[engineer2]

If your RH is above about 40% and you cool your compressed air to room temperature, it will be at 100% RH under pressure. Open an air line and you'll get foggy air. You may not notice it with air tools, but if you are painting, you should use an air dryer.