Copper or Plastic for air system piping?

[Lt CHEG]

For those concerned with sweating copper fittings, why not just use compression fittings? They don't seem that different than the compression type fittings from the likes of rapid air? I've got a 60' roll of 1" type K copper tubing left over from installing utilities on my new house. I'm planing on using that to do the bulk of my air lines as I get my shop set up. It's overkill for my needs but I already have the product leftover so I might as well use it.

 

[FTWingRiders]

I follow these threads as I want to do a nice system.. I have a bunch of copper left over from an old remodel I plan on using. Thanks to all who offer advise!

 

[mikhett]

I used 1/2 copper for my runs (40ft) and copper drip legs.

 

[callcoy]

I picked up a several hundred feet of NOS rigid 1" and 3/4" EMT, yes it is threaded so I have to deal with cuts and threading. I am only going to do this once and I think it will be a nice looking job when done, so the effort to me is worth it.

 

[EOC_Jason]

Is rigid & emt even pressure rated?!?!?! I've never heard anyone using that before...

 

[850xpeps]

Emt is thin walled compared to iron pipe.

 

[The Cobbler]

........ I've got a 60' roll of 1" type K copper tubing left over from installing utilities on my new house. I'm planing on using that to do the bulk of my air lines as I get my shop set up. It's overkill for my needs but I already have the product leftover so I might as well use it.

IMO,this is way overkill. the cost of the fittings will be astronomical.working with it will be difficult. you would be better off selling the roll and buy 1/2 rigid copper

 

[Lt CHEG]

IMO,this is way overkill. the cost of the fittings will be astronomical.working with it will be difficult. you would be better off selling the roll and buy 1/2 rigid copper

Maybe I'll list the roll on Craigslist or something. I actually do like the look of the 3/4" stiff aluminum rapid air stuff, and I was going to need fittings anyway. I think I would like to run at least 3/4" pipe just to be on the safe side. If I can get a decent price for my roll of copper I guess I wouldn't be opposed to using something else. I just don't want to get scrap pipe for a brand new unused roll of copper.

 

[Nivekdodge]

If you are working by yourself, 1 regulator will suffice, but if you're with other people you will be robbing air from 1 another.

 

[Lelandwelds]

I picked up a several hundred feet of NOS rigid 1" and 3/4" EMT, yes it is threaded so I have to deal with cuts and threading. I am only going to do this once and I think it will be a nice looking job when done, so the effort to me is worth it.

????

Did that damn auto correct mess with your post? You can't mean electrical conduit?

 

[Lelandwelds]

If you are working by yourself, 1 regulator will suffice, but if you're with other people you will be robbing air from 1 another.

If you don't want to add a loop, a small (5 to 20 gal) dry tank will smooth out the robbing of air.

 

[Aviatordave]

Again, Wow! What great insight folks!! I’m really, REALLY pleased with all the ideas and opinions! Thank you!
The Rapid Air system certainly is tempting but I think I’ve made up my mind to go with 3/4” L copper. The ease of adding on later and the ready availability of fittings is what is swaying my opinion the most. (And I’d argue about how nice copper looks but it’s hard to deny the appeal of the blue for the Rapid Air system)
Still on the fence for making a loop or just terminating runs. It’s generally just going to be me in the shop so the loop isn’t that important. My boys will grow up and start using though . . . We’ll see. I checked a local plumbing supply and saw roughly $62ish bucks for a 20’ stick of 3/4” L copper. I haven’t layed it all out yet so I don’t know the amount of lineal feet that I’ll need . . . Maybe I’ll get out there with a tape measure this weekend.
Thanks again for all the great info folks!

-Dave


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[Lelandwelds]

Like you I studied a lot and there really is a wide array of good stuff out there.

I went with 3/4" Rapid Air for several reasons. I have a 30' X 40' shop and made a 360 degree air loop. Also built the straightener you found online and when done sold it to another guy here on GJ. Really liked the looks and how it forms. The blue stands out in the shop too. Supper clean plus every air drop has a water release which is a great idea.

Another good thing is Northern Tools sells it so you can get any bits and pieces you need locally, as I found the kits better priced on line. With the size of my shop I used a 300' kit and another 100' roll of pipe plus fittings and drops. My only real complaint is the air drops cost. But everything is chrome plated brass and of very good quality. I followed the directions and had zero leaks after the install or since (Almost 3 years)

Here is how I installed it;

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My installs were never this pretty.

Isn't that lead? I get neater looks with 15% silver. I have never used lead.

 

[hemifalcon]

I used 3/4” galvanized pipe for my air lines.. I had NAPA make a hydraulic hose that I believe is 1-1/2” to connect my compressor to the filters and system piping..a few leaks at unions that I will address down the road-but IMO, steel pipe whether black or galvanized is the safest and most durable in a shop environment..


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[sberry]

If you are working by yourself, 1 regulator will suffice, but if you're with other people you will be robbing air from 1 another.

Not a concern. I can run 2 things from a single reg and so what if it did happen? I have worked or worked men 1000's of man hours on 1 regulator systems. From 1/2 pipe too.

 

[850xpeps]

My installs were never this pretty.



Isn't that lead? I get neater looks with 15% silver. I have never used lead.

I don’t think it’s lead. Have to look again. That’s prob my crappiest looking one most took a nice look

 

[Lelandwelds]

I don’t think it’s lead. Have to look again. That’s prob my crappiest looking one most took a nice look

I missed the lead years. I went from galvanized pipe to silphos. I have cast bullets and scuba weights.

I am now in love with PEX. It is what I intend to use when I build my garage.

 

[6768rogues]

For a rubber isolation hose I go to the local Carquest. They fabricate hydraulic hoses and I have them make one with pipe threads on the ends.

 

[Aviatordave]

That’s a good tip that I’ve heard from many now, having an auto company or local place just make a hydraulic hose for you.

Here’s an offshoot question: I have a heated floor in my shop. Pex running in the slab, heated by a geothermal unit. So no drilling into the floors for me. How many of you have just left your compressor on the pallet that it came on if you didn’t secure it to the floor? I’m thinking about making a wood platform on the slab and then mounting the isolation pads between the platform and the compressor feet . . . Maybe with more padding between the platform and the slab. Sound crazy?
(Should I post a different topic for this?)


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[bradleykd]

My 60 gal compressor has been on the pallet it came on for about 3 years and my dads has been for about 10 years - they haven't moved...

 

[850xpeps]

Our 80 is on a pallet since bought new 5 years ago. Hasn’t moved. No rubber isolations just dragged into corner and done.

 

[EOC_Jason]

Here’s an offshoot question: I have a heated floor in my shop. Pex running in the slab, heated by a geothermal unit. So no drilling into the floors for me. How many of you have just left your compressor on the pallet that it came on if you didn’t secure it to the floor? I’m thinking about making a wood platform on the slab and then mounting the isolation pads between the platform and the compressor feet . . . Maybe with more padding between the platform and the slab. Sound crazy?
(Should I post a different topic for this?)

Had a 60 gallon on a home-built type pallet (needed to raise it for drain line clearance), it never moved...

Friend has 2 x 120 gallon 15HP compressors, we just put rubber isolator pads on them (From McMaster Carr) and they haven't moved at all either...

 

[Aviatordave]

Well that’s good feedback. Sounds like these things are heavy enough that they don’t “walk” around the floor due to vibration if they’re not bolted into the cement. Too much time watching my 6 gallon pancake units go for a stroll when I turn them on I guess. ;-)


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[clubairth]

Tubing Straigtener for 3/4" Rapid Air

Yes I made the tubing straightener from plans posted on the Rapid Air web site.
Here it is if anyone wants to build one. I did NOT invent anything and just copied what I found. I have about $30-$50 in it. The only expensive parts are the Oatley red pulleys.

It really works well and without some kind of straightener I think the install looks very shabby. The system will operate fine but I want it to look good to!!

PS; You will NEVER regret running a loop or installing more outlets. I have a 30' X 40' shop with 6 drops and 2 hose reels. Just about right!
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[Bretny]

A rubber hose to connect the compressor to the shop air system is always recomended. Hydraulic hose works well for this.
Since your compressor is quite large and has high cfm i would use 3/4min for everything. Put ball valves in many places as well as extra Ts and unions if useing black pipe.

 

[RayBob58]

I wouldn't think of using anything but black pipe for an air system. I know copper is easy to work with, but I wonder what a sweated joint is rated at? Most water supply plumbing runs at less than 50psi, but air systems tend to run at about 90psi. I would trust the copper itself to that, but not the sweated joints. Especially sweated joints done by amateurs, which most of us are. For the isolation between the compressor and system, there are many affordable hoses that are easy to work with and rated for 300psi.

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[RayBob58]

I wouldn't think of using anything but black pipe for an air system. I know copper is easy to work with, but I wonder what a sweated joint is rated at? Most water supply plumbing runs at less than 50psi, but air systems tend to run at about 90psi. I would trust the copper itself to that, but not the sweated joints. Especially sweated joints done by amateurs, which most of us are. For the isolation between the compressor and system, there are many affordable hoses that are easy to work with and rated for 300psi.

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Well, a quick Google search turned up this, but I'm sure these ratings are for a perfect joint, and I'm sure they go down quickly for a less than perfect joint. 200psi isn't bad, since most of us work at less than half of that. But I'm still using black pipe.

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[TractorJeff]

My neighbor put in black iron after I convinced him his PVC install was dangerous!
He quoted a Lowes and the local Hardware store. Got a price match and a few cents less from the local Hardware store.
Then he started putting it together and took some of it to Lowes for threading! It took him a couple of evenings but came out nice with only one small leak somewhere. If it was me I would probably go with Black Iron also.

 

[EOC_Jason]

Considering the pressures that some A/C units run at I wouldn't worry too much. If it was me though I would use something like Stay-Silv 15, yes it's overkill but once and done, and you will need an acetylene torch to melt it.

I wouldn't think of using anything but black pipe for an air system. I know copper is easy to work with, but I wonder what a sweated joint is rated at? Most water supply plumbing runs at less than 50psi, but air systems tend to run at about 90psi. I would trust the copper itself to that, but not the sweated joints. Especially sweated joints done by amateurs, which most of us are. For the isolation between the compressor and system, there are many affordable hoses that are easy to work with and rated for 300psi.

 

[Stuart in MN]

Strictly speaking I think copper air lines are supposed to be silver soldered, but you'd have to check to find out if that's true or not.

 

[hogdoc]

Why not type M copper? Its almost half the price of L, 3/4" has a 700 psi rating.

 

[70chevellegsp]

I used 3/4" copper (approximately +-100') throughout my shop and sweat all the joints myself. I used a flexible hydraulic hose from grainger to connect the compressor to the copper. This was 17 years ago, and its leak free. If it did leak or one of the joints failed, it wouldn't be catastrophic, IMHO, it would be a leak that would need corrected. I have a 2 stage compressor, but I limited it to 125 psi only because I'm one guy and don't need 175 psi. There's pros & cons to all air lines, just don't ever use PVC!!

 

[Norcal]

I picked up a several hundred feet of NOS rigid 1" and 3/4" EMT, yes it is threaded so I have to deal with cuts and threading. I am only going to do this once and I think it will be a nice looking job when done, so the effort to me is worth it.

EMT is not threaded.

 

[jfitz]

I used a combination of copper for an air dryer system with Rapid air for the rest. The Rapid Air is hard to beat!

 

[CJ7VFR]

I used a combination of copper for an air dryer system with Rapid air for the rest. The Rapid Air is hard to beat!

Nice simple, and effective set up!

Do you have some type of valve somewhere on the copper air drier portion of the system to let out any built up moisture in there?

Jim

 

[jfitz]

Yes, I have 3 ball valves, one at the bottom of each U and then the air runs in to that blue filter dryer with decissant (I think That’s how it’s spelled!)

 

[2slow]

In my first shop I did a central straight run of 3/4" galvanized and and ran take offs to the left and right. I used galvanized and never had a flaking problem, but have read about it. In that install I found the drops took out almost all the water and there was very little left for the separators. Get the air cool to condense the water, and than take advantage of inertial with the vertical take offs, and Ts that turn up to keep the water out of your tools. The biggest issues with threaded pipe was making changes, and fighting little leaks.

My current shop has 3/4" Type L Copper pipe sweat together. Sweat together copper minimizes leaks and enables easy changes / additions. The shop has two rooms so there are two loops joined together overhead (Like a digital number 8) sloped to a drain. All taps come out the top of the line, and T off and turn up before heading to the Filter / regulators. This keeps the water out of your air supply. Imagine your compressor is pumping water and design the system so that as the water gets pumped in it goes to a drain, not your air line.

This is TP tools thoughts on the matter. I agree with everything except their description of copper. Sweated fittings with 95/5 solder are more than strong enough to hold the pressure.
http://www.tptools.com/Modular-Metal-Piping-Kits,2035.html?b=d*8092










-Joe

 

[sberry]

I like Leland's formula for 3 drops for 1500 ft. You can get complete overlap with 2 up to 1200, for every 1000 another one.