Copper Question?
- Thread starter mad57
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Kevin54
MEMBER EMERITUS
It shouldn't. Most of the flux will have solder drawn to it when heated and soldered. As long as you don't have a wad of flux that plugs the ends of the lines before soldering, you should be fine.
Bustawrench
Well-known member
Copper air lines should be brazed, not soldered.
Kevin54
MEMBER EMERITUS
I need to clarify my statement. For air lines I meant to say silver soldering and not the ordinary solder used for water lines. I wouldn't trust ordinary solder for 100+ lbs of air pressure
trainer
Well-known member
My shop is plumbed with 1/2"copper and plain solder joints. Three years now and no probs.
A solder joint under 1" is good for a working pressure of 200 psi @ 100ºF according to these guys:
http://www.copper.org/applications/plumbing/techref/cth/tables/cth_table4.html
Good enough for me!
If your worried about excess flux, you could always flush the lines with water before putting them into service.
A solder joint under 1" is good for a working pressure of 200 psi @ 100ºF according to these guys:
http://www.copper.org/applications/plumbing/techref/cth/tables/cth_table4.html
Good enough for me!
If your worried about excess flux, you could always flush the lines with water before putting them into service.
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sparky1562
Well-known member
The only advantage to brazing is the strength of the joint. If you plan to use it as tool rack, braze it! 
UnionWelder
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I can tell you from a hvac point of veiw flux is an acid and will eat up things over time so I wouldnt use it I would silver braze it and if you want 100 percent clean pipes you can purge them with nitrogen then silver braze.. This is what is used in all medical air at hospitals and all refig lines..
Are you saying that the millions and millions of homes built since the 60's that have copper pipes are going to need all new plumbing? Flux is about as weak of an acid as you can get. Vinagar is more acidic than flux. Flux will not hurt the copper pipe or fittings. Talk to any plumber.
trainer
Well-known member
Use copper. I polished the exposed lines with a bit of Brasso polish, then clear coated them with rattle can clear. Three years later and they still bling!
trainer
Well-known member
20 years this May as a volunteer. I just made it to the top of the seniority list in my Dept.
Torque1st
MEMBER EMERITUS
Never put the air lines inside the walls. The air lines must have free air circulation in order to condense and remove the moisture in the air.Now I Gotta Figure Out Piping Inside Walls Or Out
Braze the copper pipe, not for strength but for fire resistance.
Iron pipe is easy also. Just buy an assortment of fittings and return what you do not need.
trainer
Well-known member
Torque1st
MEMBER EMERITUS
Joints should be brazed to keep the system from venting early in the fire and accelerating it. It is just a safety thing to allow anyone in the shop or in a home more time to exit the structure. It is the same reason fire rock is used on walls adjoining the living quarters, -more time. Some local building codes that allow copper specify brazed joints for that reason. Most jurisdictions that specify airline material require iron pipe for compressed air and will not allow copper at all.
Once the fire gets to the state where brazed joints come loose occupants will probably be dead. Iron lines will hold at even higher temperatures and therefore give even more time if needed.
You are correct on having to re-do air lines. The code does not take that into consideration at all. Fire codes are to protect people and give them a reasonable amount of time to escape. The local codes that cover this situation probably do so because a situation arose where someone was killed by a fire that was accelerated by compressed air.
Once the fire gets to the state where brazed joints come loose occupants will probably be dead. Iron lines will hold at even higher temperatures and therefore give even more time if needed.
You are correct on having to re-do air lines. The code does not take that into consideration at all. Fire codes are to protect people and give them a reasonable amount of time to escape. The local codes that cover this situation probably do so because a situation arose where someone was killed by a fire that was accelerated by compressed air.
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UnionWelder
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- May 24, 2008
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put flux in your A/C compressor and tell me its weak and willnot eat things
Bustawrench
Well-known member
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Maybe that's because most of the flux got flushed out of the system in the 1 st five muniutes of operation. Take a good look at any closed loop system where too much flux was used and the lines were not flushed prior to being placed in service. I've seen them with pinholes like swiss cheese after only five years.
Most plumbers will tell you the same thing.
Can you believe i priced out copper and black iron today at the depo they are both $19.00 each the same frikin price for 10 ft lenghts, the fittings for copper are about 20 cents more than pipe give or take on the size. my big decision on what i went with was price but at this point im leaning towards copper for a few dollars more i like the flexability of copper, plus im curious about polishing it up shiny and clearing it
Went with Type-L (blue lettering) and silver solder for my garage project back in November for one reason - Ease of installation: measure, cut, solder.
Ended up with 140' of tubing and 9 air drops around the 26x36' space. Everything was run inside the walls and ceiling before they were insulated and the drywall was hung.
Who doesn't like working with fire?
Ended up with 140' of tubing and 9 air drops around the 26x36' space. Everything was run inside the walls and ceiling before they were insulated and the drywall was hung.
Who doesn't like working with fire?
Torque1st
MEMBER EMERITUS
When soldering copper pipe a plumber will keep a wet rag around to clean the excess solder and flux off the outside of the pipe. Use the rag while the joint is still hot and the solder is actually still liquid. The wet rag will remove any excess solder "drip" from the joint and the warm water will remove the flux. Do not wait for the joint to cool.
The water flowing thru the pipe removes the flux from the inside of the pipe.
Use the 95% Tin solder for air lines. Do not use the common lead free or 50/50 or eutectic Tin/Lead solders.
The water flowing thru the pipe removes the flux from the inside of the pipe.
Use the 95% Tin solder for air lines. Do not use the common lead free or 50/50 or eutectic Tin/Lead solders.
question did you use 1 inch? can it be dropped down to 3/4 for runs or should it be 1inch all the way?i have to go about 80 or so feet just in garage not including the loops and drops plus i want to put my compressor in an out side shed about 15 ft away.am i asking to much?Went with Type-L (blue lettering) and silver solder for my garage project back in November for one reason - Ease of installation: measure, cut, solder.
Ended up with 140' of tubing and 9 air drops around the 26x36' space. Everything was run inside the walls and ceiling before they were insulated and the drywall was hung.
Who doesn't like working with fire?
Torque1st
MEMBER EMERITUS
Running it inside the wall was the wrong thing to do. Airlines need to be in free air where the ambient air will cool the airline and condense water out of the air stream. Condensing the water out of the air and separating it from the air stream before it reaches the tool or point of use is a major function of the air distribution system.
Looks like you should have done your homework on air distribution systems before you installed your shop air lines...
Torque1st
MEMBER EMERITUS
question did you use 1 inch? can it be dropped down to 3/4 for runs or should it be 1inch all the way?i have to go about 80 or so feet just in garage not including the loops and drops plus i want to put my compressor in an out side shed about 15 ft away.am i asking to much?
For your shop 3/4" main lines and 1/2" drops should be sufficient.
These sites have some information, not all of it is correct tho. If you have questions let me know.
http://www.tptools.com/StaticText/airline-piping-diagram.pdf
http://www.oldsmobility.com/air-compressor-piping.htm
thanks for the links pics rock
much easier to see it than plot it out in my head. too much going on in there. mike.