Cordless Drill: SO 6855 vs Festool

[benjamming]

Snapon CDR6855 for $430 list vs. Festool Cordless Drills T15+3 for $575 list or the T12+3 for $525. I don't think that I want the C12 with NiCd battery even at $355 list. However, I really don't know which Festool nor why SO or the Festool. You get several chucks with the Festool which is good. Are there certain Festool cordless drills that are made in China or are they all really made in Germany (thought I remember Monte saying something about that)?

I would appreciate your help.

 

[tonydanzah]

I have never heard of Festool.

 

[walrus]

I have never heard of Festool.

Watch " This old House", they use alot of them

 

[CamarosRus]

MILWAUKIE.......Every bit as much Power at significant savings,,,,

with Lithion Ion Batteries

 

[Monte]

The Festool drills are made in germany. I don`t know about the charger and the battery pack though. Li-Ion batteries are are from China, Korea or Japan anyway.

I personally wouldn`t buy NiCD or NiMH battery powered tools anymore (except if you work in the cold - Alaska e.g. ) and give Li-Ion a try.

The "Fast-Fix" system is really great imho. You can attach different chucks so for every task there is an attachment. The Festool drill is also 1 kilo ligther than the SO drill which is a lot. Also the Festool drill has a much more modern motor without brushes just like the high end Makita BTD132RFE and Panasonic EY7540LN impact drills so you don`t have to worry about maintenance. Also the Festool drill has a electronic regulated clutch instead of a friction clutch with a spring etc. so you have a more consistent and accurate torque setting. Additionally you can switch between the "drill" mode and "screwdriver" mode with an extra switch so you dont have to readjust the torque. The Festool drill is also 10 cm shorter than the SO drill.

here is a review with loads of pics: click

The different chucks you can attach to the drill:

A pic from a Festool forum compared with the small Bosch drill

 

[Mickey_D]

I have a couple of Festool products and they are pricey but worth it. They are the Snap On of wood working power tools.

 

[benjamming]

Monte,

I was hoping that you would chime in. Thank you for the link. I wonder how old that review is & why the Li review is not made its way on there yet?

This drill will be used everywhere as I don't currently have a cordless drill & hate to bum tools that can get a lot of use.

 

[Costner]

I'd have a hard time popping for either of them considering I could buy a new DeWalt every other year for the next decade and still come out ahead financially speaking. (Not to mention having spares if something broke).

I have two DeWalt drills and an Impact driver and can't say enough good things about them. No issues whatsoever and my first set of batteries lasted me over 10 years on the first drill before I had to replace them.

However, if money were no concern I'd go with Festool as I have never heard a bad thing about them and the guys who use them say not only are they reliable, but they are engineered incredibly well.

 

[tonydanzah]

As long as you get the XRP verion of Dewalt, your golden like a shower

 

[american lockpicker]

I'm getting a T15 this summer. Also isn't it possible Varta made the batteries for it?

 

[Monte]

oops sorrry posted the wrong link... thats the old "TDK" model...

more info on any Festool product...: www.talkfestool.com/vb/ + http://festoolownersgroup.com/

@american lockpicker:
could be possible, my guess is Panasonic/Sanyo
i just sent them a email....


I personally like the new Metabo Li-Ion cordless drills too, so if someone is looking for a lower priced alternative...

 

[cronic]

I just picked up DeWalt DW970KL and love it, and I picked it up brand new on CL for 200. Just a thought....

 

[benjamming]

Metabo was the other one that I couldn't think of. The LTX being Made in Germany right?

 

[TangoFoxTrot]

I'd have a hard time popping for either of them considering I could buy a new DeWalt every other year for the next decade and still come out ahead financially speaking. (Not to mention having spares if something broke).

I have two DeWalt drills and an Impact driver and can't say enough good things about them. No issues whatsoever and my first set of batteries lasted me over 10 years on the first drill before I had to replace them.

However, if money were no concern I'd go with Festool as I have never heard a bad thing about them and the guys who use them say not only are they reliable, but they are engineered incredibly well.

That's also the way I look at it.

I'm sure the other models mentioned are slightly better, but all of them are going to eventually need to have their batteries replaced at some point, and I don't even want to know what a new Festool or Snap On battery costs. Probably what an entire new DeWalt drill costs. Not to mention power tools just tend to wear out over the years, even really high-end ones.

I would just buy something more mainstream like Milwaukee, Makita, Bosch or DeWalt. I bet you get 95% of the performance for half the price, and replacement parts like batteries I'm sure are much cheaper.

 

[benjamming]

Costner & TFT,

Y'all are missing my main point - not buying (to the maximum extent possible) stuff from 3rd world countries until they decide to participate on a level playing field. I had considered Dewalt being that it is made in Mexico, but I'm only seriously considering the 3 tools mention above - Snapon, Festool, & Metabo.

 

[Costner]

I think Bosch make a lot of their drills in Switzerland if your goal is simply to avoid China - and they are a much more reasonable pricepoint just like Makita, DeWalt, Milwaukee etc.

Of course you will also need to check where chargers and batteries are made, because in my experience they are often not made in the same country as the power tool itself. I believe on my DeWalt the charge was made in Mexico, but I can't say about the battery.

I'm all for buying things made in the US, but it needs to be equal quality with only a moderate increase in price. I don't consider five or six times as expensive to be a moderate increase, thus I can't justify it... but that is merely me. For others they are more than willing to pay the price premium either due to the increased quality or because they simply want to buy from anywhere other than China. I can respect that viewpoint as well.

 

[american lockpicker]

Most Bosch drills are now made in Malaysia.

 

[FNFS2000]

Go with festool, you will be happy! I'm getting more into woodwork the last year or so and I'm pretty much fanatical about Festool now.

 

[Monte]

That`s right, the Metabo "LT-class" and "LTX-class" cordless drills are made in Nurtingen/Germany. The charger i dont know... A Metabo fan in a german forum obtained more info from Metabo: the batteries are from Sanyo, the 4-pole motor was developed by Metabo and is exclusively made by Johnson for Metabo. The chuck and gear unit and housing, cast parts etc. are made by Metabo in germany. The switch is probably from Marquardt

The higher priced Bosch Li-Ion drills are still swiss made (at least the ones sold here) they come with Sony battery cells just like Makita (IIRC)

 

[american lockpicker]

Monte this summer if I sent you the money could you get me a 18 volt Swiss made drill?

 

[Monte]

Monte this summer if I sent you the money could you get me a 18 volt Swiss made drill?

just buy the Festool drill
or Metabo....
yes i could (if they still made in switzerland then....) but the charger is for 240 volts so you need a new 110 volt charger or a voltage converter.

 

[benjamming]

The Festool battery is made by Sanyo. I'm still checking the COO of the charger & battery for it.

Both Metabo units come with (2) battery packs. That is a plus.

The SO is 450 in-lb max whereas the Metabo LT is 531 in-lbs for hard, 230 in-lbs for soft & LTX is 850 in-lbs for hard. The Festool T15 is 354 in-lbs for steel & 238 in-lbs for wood. The T12 is 266 in-lb is steel & 220 in-lb in wood. It seems from that alone that the Festool would come up short for a general purpose cordless drill. What am I missing? It appears that Metabo LTX takes the point in this category.

The Metabo is ~ 4.3#, SO 5.5 #, & Festool is ~ 3.2#. That gives the advantage to Festool.

Metabo LTX is ~ $300, LT is ~ $250 based on acetoolonline.com. This is also best of the 3.

 

[scooby074]

american lockpicker: I was at a local hardware store (Rona) last week and most of the higher end Bosch tools are still made in Switzerland. My older corded bosch hammerdrill is also swiss so i think it really depends on the price point of the tool as to COO.

The Lithium hammerdril i was looking at was Swiss. So you likely can get a swiss bosch if you look at the upper end models.

I havent use a Festool, but they do get great (almost fanatical) reviews on the woodworking side of things.

 

[american lockpicker]

american lockpicker: I was at a local hardware store (Rona) last week and most of the higher end Bosch tools are still made in Switzerland. My older corded bosch hammerdrill is also swiss so i think it really depends on the price point of the tool as to COO.

The Lithium hammerdril i was looking at was Swiss. So you likely can get a swiss bosch if you look at the upper end models.

I havent use a Festool, but they do get great (almost fanatical) reviews on the woodworking side of things.

All the production is slowly being outsorced to China, Malaysia, etc. I've been buying up all the swiss and german ones in my area as they have all been put on clearance. I will probably end up going with Festool but I would love to have a Swiss 18V drill as its been on my wish list for over a year now and its significantly cheaper.

 

[scooby074]

All the production is slowly being outsorced to China, Malaysia, etc. I've been buying up all the swiss and german ones in my area as they have all been put on clearance. I will probably end up going with Festool but I would love to have a Swiss 18V drill as its been on my wish list for over a year now and its significantly cheaper.

I hope thats not the case. Cant Bosch resist the lure of China production? At least keep 2 tiers, one European, one chinese.

I noticed the 18v lithion is listed as a "New" product on Bosch's website. Logically, you'd think that if they just got tooled up in one plant to make a new product (ie: in switzerland like the ones i saw on the shelf) they wouldnt ship producton offshore??? But logic usually doesnt factor into these decisions.

I havent seen any of the upper end tools coming from china yet, but it wouldnt surprise me if they started.Im almost thinking about buying the one i saw, not that i really need it (my DW 18vXRP is still fine after much abuse) but its a VERY nice drill and may be one of a dying breed of european bosch's

 

[american lockpicker]

I take some COO pictures the next time I'm at Lowes and Fastenal. Also all US production like the router and screwdriver bits have been outsourced to Mexico and China.

 

[scooby074]

I take some COO pictures the next time I'm at Lowes and Fastenal. Also all US production like the router and screwdriver bits have been outsourced to Mexico and China.

thats true. mexico produced my bosch 1619 3 1/4 hp router. However its a VERY good router, very highly rated. The accessories like drill bits are chinese your right. I avoid that stuff.

I believe the current, upper end drills however still are sourced from europe and i hope it stays that way.

 

[Monte]

@benjamming:
it is difficult to compare the torque ratings because the manufaturers don`t say which wood they used to measure the torque. oak ? MDF ? Larch ?



re: country of origin:

it is quite diffficult for manufacturers who produce in the "Euro zone" and sell to the "Dollar zone" countries. The exchange rate is devastating. For example: Every cent the dollar drops it cost Metabo 1 million € in margins i was told. Especially to sell in the USA (the largest power tool market) is difficult because the prices are down there and nobbody is buying tools at full retail prices . Also all of Bosch (and Metabos etc.) competitors have already outsourced their production long time ago to low-wage countries whether its Mexico or China, Czech republic etc. There once were Black + Decker tools "made in Germany" and France, England and Ireland but the plants closed the doors more than 25 years ago. B+D once bought the german electric tool manufacturer "Elu" with plants in Germany, Switzerland and Italy. Where are they now ??? In Italy they still make the Dewalt woodworking saws (miter saws, table saws etc.) everything else closed... Dewalt angle grinders now even made in China..... Milwaukee ?? Mexico ? China ? On the long run Techtronics (Milwaukee,Ryobi,AEG,Ridgid,Craftsman etc.) will make everything in China. No surprise if the tools get cheaper and cheaper and everybody is underbidding each other with the prices and customers who only buy with coupons and at sale prices etc. or even buy refurbished tools at even cheaper prices. Same with Makita and Hitachi where the "made in Japan" disappear from more and more tools too. Nobody wonder why you can buy everything for 50% off ?? And then wonder why everything is outsourced ??

 

[ultgar]

I have the T12+3 and T15+3 ........both great drills and so light! The TRC charger says made in Germany on it....the battery origin is not marked. Got rid of my TDK's on Ebay and still holding onto one of the C12's because of the unique grip. SD

 

[l_bilyk]

Between those two, I would chose festool. Lets be honest snap on is like a fish out of water when it comes to electrical tools.

 

[benjamming]

I will add Bosch to the list. Which category should I be looking at under Power Tools - 14.4V, 18V, or 36V? Which Bosch cordless drills would you recommend? They don't list COO on their site under Litheon. I have emailed them about COO information.

 

[scooby074]

a little update.

At home depot today they had 6? of the lithion hammer drills. I checked COO on them, made in Switzerland
These were on the clearance table for $250 Down from like $375? soo tempting. I almost bit, they're really nice. Much better than my current Dewalt XRP that wont die.

They also had the 14v "tough" drills there COO Malaysia THe tough drills weren't nearly as nice.

 

[benjamming]

What was the COO of the battery & charger?

You said hammer drills. I guess I'm not up on the terminology as I thought that was different than the drills from Festool, Metabo, & SO models that were mentioned above. A little explanation please? What is the correct term for the "regular" cordless drill? Thanks.

 

[american lockpicker]

China for charger and Malaysia for batteries on Bosch, Germany for everything with Festool.

 

[scooby074]

What was the COO of the battery & charger?

You said hammer drills. I guess I'm not up on the terminology as I thought that was different than the drills from Festool, Metabo, & SO models that were mentioned above. A little explanation please? What is the correct term for the "regular" cordless drill? Thanks.

I havent checked the COO of the charger or batts from bosch so i cant say,.

The drills i looked at were hammer drills. Theyre basically a normal drill, with a optional mode for hammer action. The hammer action is almost essential for drilling concrete.

The only downsides to a hammer drill is its a little heavier and slightly larger than the regular drill, plus its usually more money. However due to the nature of the work i do, i wont own nothing besides a hammer drill.

If all you EVER intend to do is wood work and driling steel then the hammer option likely wont be a benefit to you, but its nice to have the option for when you need it.

 

[benjamming]

Thanks for the additional info.

As long as the hammer drill is an option, that's good (option).

american lockpicker,

Are those COO for the Bosch charger & batteries which were made in Switzerland? I assume so.

 

[american lockpicker]

Thanks for the additional info.

As long as the hammer drill is an option, that's good (option).

american lockpicker,

Are those COO for the Bosch charger & batteries which were made in Switzerland? I assume so.

Yes and the ones made in malaysia. Also I don't think they are packaged in Switzerland as I opened a box at Lowes marked "made in Switzerland" and the drill was made in Mayalsia so examine it before you buy. Also the COO is under the battery on the bottom of the drill.

 

[benjamming]

Thanks.

What about the COO of the charger & battery for the Metabo LT & LTX?
I believe the battery for the SO is Japan & charger is China but I haven't been able to confirm that yet.

 

[scooby074]

Yes and the ones made in malaysia. Also I don't think they are packaged in Switzerland as I opened a box at Lowes marked "made in Switzerland" and the drill was made in Mayalsia so examine it before you buy. Also the COO is under the battery on the bottom of the drill.

COO on the drills i looked at (lithion) are stamped under the battery, they were Switzerland. I didnt see COO marked on the packaging but id assume its there too.

 

[benjamming]

Acetoolonline.com said that both of the Metabo drill & chargers are made in Germany; batteries are from Japan. I'm still waiting on what they say for the Festool that they have in stock.