Cordless Tools?

[neophyte]

Agree I doubt Milwaukee would have succeeded in the prosumer market without Home Depot.

Milwaukee was literally an “Industrial” tool brand, that used to only be available thru “Industrial” tool stores, and suppliers like Grainger.
By “Industrial Tool Store”, I mean the type of supplier that the average consumer might have felt intimidated entering, or which didn’t really want to deal with wankers off the street.
The “Whole Earth Catalog” even used to list Milwaukee as the type of durable “professional grade” tool, a person should seek out, even though it wasn’t sold thru regular hardware stores.
Home Depot has probably lessened the reputation of Milwaukee over the past 25 years.
Home Depot probably lessened the reputation of Hilti tools as well, although HD probably also spread wider awareness of the brand.

 

[Robinson1]

Home Depot probably lessened the reputation of Hilti tools as well, although HD probably also spread wider awareness of the brand.

Back in the day Milwaukee was what Hilti strives to be now. Rare to see a Hilti tool outside heavy industry and commercial construction.

Was not aware Home Depot was selling Hilti

 

[neophyte]

Back in the day Milwaukee was what Hilti strives to be now. Rare to see a Hilti tool outside heavy industry and commercial construction.

Was not aware Home Depot was selling Hilti

You can still purchase a bunch of Hilti stuff off of Home Depot’s website.
Hilti used to have in store displays of Holti Tools and products, with a Hilti representative that was sometimes in store to advise on the tools and other Hilti products.
I think the Hilti arrangement with the in store displays started in the late 1990s, maybe 1999, and ended around 2012.
The Hilti tools at Home Depot had fixed pricing that was the same as the pricing at Hilti owned stores.
Most of the Hilti tools were significantly more expensive than the other “professional” tools Home Depot was selling, including the Milwaukee tools, back when the Milwaukee tools were mostly made in the USA or Germany, as well as the USA made Skil Saws, and the USA made Porter Cable Tools, and the German Swiss or USA made Bosch tools, etc.
The Hilti tools of the period had lots of innovative features, and decent, or seemingly decent build quality, but the price was significantly higher than the other options.
Hilti had a worm drive circular saw that was designed to run on a track like the Festool saws, and Festool and Mafell were basically the only two other manufacturers offering an actual track saw in the USA at the time. (I think the Hilti just used a Festool track)
The Hilti Jigsaws actually had a dust collection unit that attached to the jigsaw, not just a dust collection port.
There was a similar system for a bunch of rotary hammer models.
The screw gun Hilti made had a built in rafter hook, a weird deflected motor exhaust to prevent drywall dust issues, and I forget what other features.
Apparently Hilti couldn’t sell enough if the tolls for the economics to work.
Eventually Hilti started simplifying the tool design, and dropped a bunch of the innovative features, and just started selling tools that were made in China, and which didn’t look ghat different than a bunch of the other professional tools.
Some innovative features survived, and the build wuality was supposedly still good, but it was sort of like if Festool just released a regular circular saw that didn’t even run on a track, or have variable speed, etc.

 

[Gizzygone]

Well, this was timely:

Interestingly I ordered a Milwaukee set on a "deal of the day" special, and it was a pretty damn good deal ($270 for 3x5ah batteries, impact driver and charger). I held onto it for a bit, but decided a third battery platform was just going to add clutter to my garage (I started with Ryobi back in high school... added M12 for some automotive tools... and then Makita for a track saw/wood working).

The Milwaukee certainly didn't have the same "hand feel" that the Makita did, and while I didn't really put it through its paces (I wasn't sure if I wanted to keep it or not), I decided to return it.

I ended up ordering the Japanese made Makita (the 173) from Amazon Japan just to see how it stacks up... At $160 shipped, it's cheaper than the XDT19 that is made in China. (I could have paid $60 for a new part from Makita... but I didn't trust that the entire motor wasn't compromised from the magnet damage.... so it seemed like a gamble to me)

 

[WWheeler]

Well, this was timely:

Interestingly I ordered a Milwaukee set on a "deal of the day" special, and it was a pretty damn good deal ($270 for 3x5ah batteries, impact driver and charger). I held onto it for a bit, but decided a third battery platform was just going to add clutter to my garage (I started with Ryobi back in high school... added M12 for some automotive tools... and then Makita for a track saw/wood working).

The Milwaukee certainly didn't have the same "hand feel" that the Makita did, and while I didn't really put it through its paces (I wasn't sure if I wanted to keep it or not), I decided to return it.

I ended up ordering the Japanese made Makita (the 173) from Amazon Japan just to see how it stacks up... At $160 shipped, it's cheaper than the XDT19 that is made in China. (I could have paid $60 for a new part from Makita... but I didn't trust that the entire motor wasn't compromised from the magnet damage.... so it seemed like a gamble to me)

The part of that video that unfortunately resonated most with me (I'm glad I don't have that Milwaukee impact driver) is them calling out their M18 batteries at 5m55s for being pretty craptastic. I'm glad it wasn't just me that has had nothing but bad luck with M18 batteries.

 

[Etchase]

I’ve had really bad luck with Milwaukee batteries as shown in that video too. Their drill chucks are problematic too. 50 years ago their chucks were outstanding, but those people, the design team, and the design center are long gone. It’s just a brand name purchased by a new company, all be it long long ago.

 

[Gizzygone]

The part of that video that unfortunately resonated most with me (I'm glad I don't have that Milwaukee impact driver) is them calling out their M18 batteries at 5m55s for being pretty craptastic. I'm glad it wasn't just me that has had nothing but bad luck with M18 batteries.

Interesting: I know I've seen lots of posts about the button to check the charge level breaking through, but nothing about the case itself.

In fairness, Milwaukee does have that 5 year warranty, and they seem to stand behind their products from what reviewers say, but it's not as tempting if you know that you need to use the warranty frequently.

I had a corded Rigid random-orbit sander that I sent out for warranty work: they deemed the product to be unrepairable, so they offered to send me a "equivalent replacement". Unfortunately, what arrived was a belt sander? I fought with them for weeks: they claimed they didn't have any more of the random-orbit sanders in their inventory, so their policy allows them to replace with an equivalent model... I had to argue that belt sanders and random orbit sanders aren't exactly apples to apples.

I ended up complaining to the Home Depot (who handled the warranty repair process): they're the ones who ended up giving me a replacement random orbit sander.

Rigid has that nice lifetime service guarantee on their products, but it's a brand I'll avoid going forward (hopefully their service departments are different than the Milwaukee folks)

 

[finn]

Interesting: I know I've seen lots of posts about the button to check the charge level breaking through, but nothing about the case itself.

In fairness, Milwaukee does have that 5 year warranty, and they seem to stand behind their products from what reviewers say, but it's not as tempting if you know that you need to use the warranty frequently.

I had a corded Rigid random-orbit sander that I sent out for warranty work: they deemed the product to be unrepairable, so they offered to send me a "equivalent replacement". Unfortunately, what arrived was a belt sander? I fought with them for weeks: they claimed they didn't have any more of the random-orbit sanders in their inventory, so their policy allows them to replace with an equivalent model... I had to argue that belt sanders and random orbit sanders aren't exactly apples to apples.

I ended up complaining to the Home Depot (who handled the warranty repair process): they're the ones who ended up giving me a replacement random orbit sander.

Rigid has that nice lifetime service guarantee on their products, but it's a brand I'll avoid going forward (hopefully their service departments are different than the Milwaukee folks)

Ridgid, Ryobi, and Milwaukee are all TTI owned brands. I suspect they have at least some common underlying design, manufacturing, or other business components, be it accounting, service, etc.

 

[dchawk81]

Yea: Years of Ryobi with hardly an issue. I thought by buying a more premium brand I'd be better off. For the most part, it was: compared to the (older model) Ryobis, the Makita felt better in the hand, had a better trigger feel, and felt like more power.

But when I'm paying a premium, I'd expect it to last longer. I'd hate to spend another $200 on a replacement Makita to have it die an early death again... especially when I'm not using it daily?

Using this logic, Mercedes never break down.

 

[RTM]

Using this logic, Mercedes never break down.

This is hilarious, in context. Back some 20+ish years ago, I read that the BMW 3 series was more reliable than the 5 series, and the 7 series was atrocious (don't quote me on the source, I've slept and had beer since then). How would we leverage that into this conversation's logic?

 

[whateg01]

This is hilarious, in context. Back some 20+ish years ago, I read that the BMW 3 series was more reliable than the 5 series, and the 7 series was atrocious (don't quote me on the source, I've slept and had beer since then). How would we leverage that into this conversation's logic?

I suppose that we could point out that cordless drills don't have turn signals.

 

[RTM]

I suppose that we could point out that cordless drills don't have turn signals.

Or that we go to one of the most expensive tool lines, but don't buy the most expensive, feature laden tool?

 

[dchawk81]

This is hilarious, in context. Back some 20+ish years ago, I read that the BMW 3 series was more reliable than the 5 series, and the 7 series was atrocious (don't quote me on the source, I've slept and had beer since then). How would we leverage that into this conversation's logic?

Only get the base model with crank windows.

If your impact doesn't have crank windows, skip it.

 

[Gizzygone]

I mean: lots of folks call them “cryobi”.

Not much to cry about over the years. Pretty reliable, inexpensive and simple. Just missing out on finesse and some power.

I guess it’s kind of a Toyota by the analogy.

And if that’s the case, Who makes the Lexus of tools?

 

[WWheeler]

I mean: lots of folks call them “cryobi”.

Not much to cry about over the years. Pretty reliable, inexpensive and simple. Just missing out on finesse and some power.

I guess it’s kind of a Toyota by the analogy.

And if that’s the case, Who makes the Lexus of tools?

If Ryobi was the Toyota of cordless, given my experiences so far, I'd say Dewalt would get my vote for being the Lexus.
Hasn't let me down yet. Even all of my 90s bought 18v ni-cad stuff still survives to this day with adapters for Li-Ion batteries, and now they are joined by newer models in 20v and 60v options. They all just work.

 

[dchawk81]

If Ryobi was the Toyota of cordless, given my experiences so far, I'd say Dewalt would get my vote for being the Lexus.
Hasn't let me down yet. Even all of my 90s bought 18v ni-cad stuff still survives to this day with adapters for Li-Ion batteries, and now they are joined by newer models in 20v and 60v options. They all just work.

DeWalt is Rivian. Milwaukee is Tesla. Everything else is the GM EV1.

 

[whateg01]

If Ryobi was the Toyota of cordless, given my experiences so far, I'd say Dewalt would get my vote for being the Lexus.
...

I thought that Toyota/Lexus reference was a little different. Toyota and Lexus are often the same vehicle, just with different niceties. Ryobi and DeWalt are not the same tool.

 

[dchawk81]

I thought that Toyota/Lexus reference was a little different. Toyota and Lexus are often the same vehicle, just with different niceties. Ryobi and DeWalt are not the same tool.

Nobody knows what the hell's going on because nothing makes any sense. Let's be fair about all this.

 

[Gizzygone]

Nobody knows what the hell's going on because nothing makes any sense. Let's be fair about all this.

Certainly took a wrong turn there.

 

[RTM]

Nobody knows what the hell's going on because nothing makes any sense. Let's be fair about all this.

Sorry, didn’t mean to confuse everyone with a bit of sarcastic fun.

 

[4 Ever-Fish N]

I have multiple cordless Makita tools. The only problem I have had is with a chuck on one of the drill motors. I have 3 or 4 chargers and 7 plus batteries. I couldn't afford to change platforms so I'd definitely be repairing or replacing the broken part/tool.

 

[Dakotadadv8]

That's not true. Makita has a broader line of cordless tools than anybody in the world. Makita is more of a global brand than Milwaukee will ever be. Outside of the United States Makita is #1 worldwide. Go anywhere in the world (with the possible exception of Europe where Bosch likely rules) and Makita is the dominate player. Because Milwaukee has the Home Depot locked up and there is one on every street corner in America we believe Milwaukee is king. Truly not the case worldwide.

Just got the Makita oil impulse impact driver from Home Depot - made in Japan interesting, will be my go to impact driver along with my Dewalt impact drivers.

 

[engineer2]

(with the possible exception of Europe where Bosch likely rules)

I was in Rome last summer and a couple of guys were installing window shutters on an old building. They were using a Makita impact driver. I understand Europe is Makita's biggest market, even bigger than the USA.

 

[Steel_Rain]

I've had most, team yellow and team red, FES, Hilti, hell, I'd admit to owning Craftsman as late as 2010. My first 1/4 impact Milwaukee had literally come apart in my hand, with the battery housing coming apart and falling on the floor. The battery case cracked. The second one I got under warranty just stopped working after helping a friend with a deck and the gearbox took a dump.

These were the same failures that TTC experienced many times:

I went to Makita because my buddy let me borrow has 1/4" impact wrench while he was on vacation for a week. This was the XGT version and I was amazed. I sold all my Milwaukee (pounced Will-****-Yee) stuff and went to team teal. It's been three years, no issues. I'm fully invested into the Makita line, both LXT and XGT.

One thing that I feel is way overlooked when these power tools are reviewed is balance/all day comfort. Sure, everyone has a transformer looking overmolding these days (Flex, LoL), but I'm not talking about working with a tool for a few hours a week. Some of us will use the same power tool for a week long project, or in a shop 5-6 days a week for years. The Makita's just feel like a balanced, smooth, precision tool compared to the other stuff. I have no idea if Makita does R&D on CG or not, but I promise you this...Use a Makita for week and use another brand for a week and you will feel less fatigue during your day(s) off with team teal. It's just better. And I wish someone would have told me that 15 years ago.

Makita tools are balanced, and until you understand how a balanced tool makes your life easier, you'll just be working harder then you need to.

 

[RTM]

One thing that I feel is way overlooked when these power tools are reviewed is balance/all day comfort. Sure, everyone has a transformer looking overmolding these days (Flex, LoL), but I'm not talking about working with a tool for a few hours a week. Some of us will use the same power tool for a week long project, or in a shop 5-6 days a week for years. The Makita's just feel like a balanced, smooth, precision tool compared to the other stuff. I have no idea if Makita does R&D on CG or not, but I promise you this...Use a Makita for week and use another brand for a week and you will feel less fatigue during your day(s) off with team teal.

This is why I keep my Makita 9.6v drill going all these years. The balance is so much better. Over the years, I have weekend warrior helped friends with projects, and always preferred my tools over theirs, even for one off tasks. Some have switched after borrowing mine. Mostly from yellow, not too many red in my circle. The greens rarely touch mine