billconner
Well-known member
I need to drill through a 12" ICF - 8" concrete. 1 or 2 holes force 3/4" copper pipes. Can I do it with my 1/2 DeWalt corded drill (I think not hammer - it's been 5 years) and right bit or should I rent one?
core drill
- Thread starter billconner
- Start date
Rusted Nut
Well-known member
You’ll need a hammer drill or roto hammer. Small roto hammers are pretty cheap, about $140 for a Bosch Bulldog, or rent one. You won’t need a core drill bit, just a 1” SDS bit.
You'll want an SDS plus drill at least. I've done 1" holes through my foundation a couple times to run lines with my Dewalt SDS, takes a few minutes but works great. I wouldn't even attempt it with a hammer drill, let alone a regular drill.
OP
billconner
Well-known member
So I got this bit but guess I need a different drill motor than my Milwaukee 3/8 " hammer drill? And my 1/2" DeWalt is just for joists and studs. https://www.lowes.com/pd/Bosch-1-in-x-12-in-HSS-Round-Hammer-Drill-Masonry-Drill-Bit/4185399
So Harbor Freight has an $80 SDS type hammer drill. https://www.harborfreight.com/10-amp-1-18-in-sds-type-variable-speed-rotary-hammer-64288.html
I clearly am not up on this. I also would like a little more slop in the hole for the copper pipe, so maybe renting a 2 1/2" core drill and motor.
So Harbor Freight has an $80 SDS type hammer drill. https://www.harborfreight.com/10-amp-1-18-in-sds-type-variable-speed-rotary-hammer-64288.html
I clearly am not up on this. I also would like a little more slop in the hole for the copper pipe, so maybe renting a 2 1/2" core drill and motor.
I’m going to break with the masses. If it were my house I would rent a core bit as it will give you a much cleaner hole. If you know where your rebar is you could get away with an ordinary core if you suspect you might hit rebar there are carbide tipped cores designed for this. Rotary hammers are not used with core drill so you could probably get away using your 1/2 corded although it will take longer. As for the size. For 3/4 copper I would drill 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 and sleeve the hole with pvc so the copper is not in contact with the cement not to mention this makes for a much cleaner finish.
Sportsman762
Well-known member
I worked for a water well driller and we would have to run the 1" service line through walls. Normally we would use a SDS max drill for going through solid concrete. Sometimes we would use a SDS plus with a smaller bit (5/8") and drill holes in a round pattern then chisel them out. The SDS plus with multiple holes had the least break out. A core drill is a SOB to hold horizontal even with a suction base, I would not use one at all. A regular drill with hammer mode could do it assuming it would not burn up. I would definately rent, borrow, or buy an SDS unit.
Remember you need to seal the holes up well, we would morter them so any breakout was not as noticable and it sealed up against water. Water intrusion is a bigger concern then pretty in my opinion. A sleeved pipe would be very difficult to seal up.
Remember you need to seal the holes up well, we would morter them so any breakout was not as noticable and it sealed up against water. Water intrusion is a bigger concern then pretty in my opinion. A sleeved pipe would be very difficult to seal up.
sparky 1971
Well-known member
A 2-1/2" core bit? Are you planning on putting both pipes in the same hole? I have a spline drive drill with 2-1/2" and 3-1/2" core bits and I am going to say, it's tiring holding that thing up for that long. Core bits make a nice hole, but take forever. I also have the biggest SDS M18 Milwaukee makes and a 2" core for it. It takes even longer to get through a wall with it, it just doesn't hit hard enough, but it's not as heavy as the spline drive. I have a Bosch Bulldog corded SDS and it's no better than the Milwaukee, but it's lighter. Is this the only time you're planning on drilling that much concrete? If so, I would just rent a good SDS type drill and a 1-1/8" hammer drill bit and have at it. If you're worried about the concrete blowing out when you come out the other side with a 1-1/8", drill a 1/2" pilot hole all the way through and use the larger bit from both directions. The bit you have posted is going to take forever and I'm willing to bet that it will be the end of your hammer drill, it's just not made for that kind of work. A 3/8" Milwaukee is fine for 5/32 and 3/16 holes for tap cons, and 1/4 hole for plastic anchors though.
I don't have it yet, but I have a Bosch 1-3/4" SDS Max on order with a 5" core bit. I'm not looking forward to drilling those two holes. The last time I core drilled, it was the 3-1/2" through 10" of concrete for two holes about seven feet above grade. It took two of use, taking turns about three hours. Luckily, we didn't hit rebar. I've hit rebar with a smaller bit before and had to use holesaws to get through it. (several holesaws, they were destroyed by the concrete).
There are also companies, at least here, that specialize in drilling holes in concrete. I used them once for a big hole, it was expensive, but the hole was perfect, 10X better than what I could do with the equipment I had to work with or could have rented.
I don't have it yet, but I have a Bosch 1-3/4" SDS Max on order with a 5" core bit. I'm not looking forward to drilling those two holes. The last time I core drilled, it was the 3-1/2" through 10" of concrete for two holes about seven feet above grade. It took two of use, taking turns about three hours. Luckily, we didn't hit rebar. I've hit rebar with a smaller bit before and had to use holesaws to get through it. (several holesaws, they were destroyed by the concrete).
There are also companies, at least here, that specialize in drilling holes in concrete. I used them once for a big hole, it was expensive, but the hole was perfect, 10X better than what I could do with the equipment I had to work with or could have rented.
OP
billconner
Well-known member
I have to reread all this but, supply and return for hot water baseboard heat from interior to interior. So hole on one side of wall is about foot above slab (will have 3" of flooring on it) and on other side about 5' above full basement floor. I liked the "slop" as I haven't bought the baseboard yet, and fitting pipe to zone pump a few feet from wall seemed well served by a little slop. Where hole is there will be no radiator, just empty or false cover. I figured I'd spray foam hole after - noise and dirt - or stuff with poly urethane.
So that's why I leaned toward core drilling initially, thinking I could partially support drill from slab and get a pretty clean and horizontal hole. Assumed water (and shop vac).
I core drilled a 2 1/2" hole through 18" of Peoria limestone in previous house 20+ years ago and I think a $50 rental. Assume double today but seems almost cheaper than buying and easier. But other than that one time, not a task I know much about.
I really appreciate your time and effort in trying to help.
So that's why I leaned toward core drilling initially, thinking I could partially support drill from slab and get a pretty clean and horizontal hole. Assumed water (and shop vac).
I core drilled a 2 1/2" hole through 18" of Peoria limestone in previous house 20+ years ago and I think a $50 rental. Assume double today but seems almost cheaper than buying and easier. But other than that one time, not a task I know much about.
I really appreciate your time and effort in trying to help.
Retroman
Well-known member
Core drilling ICF is not easy due to the fact that the foam is difficult to mount an anchored core drill too. As you apply pressure to the core bit the foam the compresses and your stand begins to lose its horizontal plane. 2 smaller holes with a SDS max would be the way to do it or hire a concrete cutting company. They would be in the $300 to $500 range for a minimum charge. If you have a small mom & pop cutting company you may get a little better cash price.
Retroman
Well-known member
So your plan is to lay the drill on the floor /slab and push it thru the wall ? that could work difficult part will be getting the hole started.
sparky 1971
Well-known member
I can't speak for him but he's probably thinking core bit in a SDS roto hammer. Nothing is bolted on, just stand there holding it for what seems like an eternity.
OP
billconner
Well-known member
I could put tapcons in the floor (or wall).
Firebrick43
Well-known member
Having an ICF house and suspended composite slab floor I have drilled a lot of holes for pipes.
Core drilling is MUCH harder in concrete compared to limestone as the gravel (at least here) is natural river stone in the concrete vs soft limestone.
Also you will clip rebar sometimes. Not a big deal with a standard SDS bit but unless you’re very slow and consistent with your feed it can wipe out a core drills and that gets salty.
If I wanted better quality holes on the exit side I predrilled with a small 1/2” bit in a Bosch bulldog SDS and the the full size bit in the big monster SDS max Bosch I have and would finish the last few inches from the other side. I never timed predrilling vs just using the big one but it seemed comparable in time I’df not faster and the holes were better looking.
The smaller SDS drill is significantly faster with small holes due to the faster IPS, and worthless anything approaching and inch or bigger.
The hf sds drill is fine… Just keep in mind it is not a heavy duty one like the hitchi DH series afaik few occasional hole drilling is fine
their bits are not that great but will still work for 1 or few holes.
Keep in mind the bit you list on the first link will not fit in sds-plus or sds-max drills. You will need to buy the proper bits for your drills sds-plus to sds-max would need adapter versa. The HF drill looks like it is sds-max type. I would check first.
For holes larger than 1.5 inches like 4 or 6” ones to 18” concrete / bricks. They have impact type hole drills for sds-max or plus. The carbide is ment for impact drilling. Still needs water to cool and lube. A bit different from core bits that is diamond I think and not impact rated. Name is used interchangeably sometimes.
Name brand matters on the drill bits or hole bits. Some eBay seller or unknown brand uses cheaper and lower grade carbide for the drill bit that would break under use.
Larger hole bits are not cheap these days they are in few hundreds.
Dewalt, hitachi, Bosch, Milwaukee . Hilti, are all good brands. eBay unknown ones from Canada are horrible but cheap.
So…. Buy the drill and verify what fits your drill.
I have the hitachi and that is a beast DH50 or something I drill holes in boulder for feather and wedge with no issue .
Something like these. It would spell out sds-max or SDs-plus
Last edited:
OP
billconner
Well-known member
The prices to buy makes me think rental makes sense. I really don't plan to do this again, nor at my age.
All very much appreciated.
All very much appreciated.
OP
billconner
Well-known member
I couldn't find anyone who does this within an hour and a half, because that was attractive. It's around $100 to rent a 2 1/2" core drill with diamond bit for 4 hours. That's a half hour away. Does rental make sense over buying something? Can I set up, core, and, and pick up in 3 hours?
STOP TALKING ABOUT CORING DRILLING, it's the stupidest way of getting this done.
Go buy a $100-200 corded SDS plus drill with a 1" bit and just frickin' put a hole through for the pipe. Sell the drill after to recoup your costs if need be, cheaper than a rental and all the time in the world.
This is literally trivial to do, I've drilled tons of 1" holes through foundations with my little SDS Plus drill, takes 5-10 minutes.
Go buy a $100-200 corded SDS plus drill with a 1" bit and just frickin' put a hole through for the pipe. Sell the drill after to recoup your costs if need be, cheaper than a rental and all the time in the world.
This is literally trivial to do, I've drilled tons of 1" holes through foundations with my little SDS Plus drill, takes 5-10 minutes.
OP
billconner
Well-known member
So if I spend $200 or more for SDS Plus drill and bit for one time use. If I drill 2 holes (looking a 1 3/8") side by side, easy to knock our concrete between them for an elongated hole? I just have to have more slop than a 1" hole allows for 3/4" copper pipe. And not make too big of mess of finished drywall on other side. (Existing piping and boiler etc. does not allow drilling from drywall side.)
sparky 1971
Well-known member
Get a larger bit, 1-1/8 is plenty, larger if you want and drill two holes side by side and run each pipe through it's own hole. I doubt you'd be able to drill the holes perfect enough to be able to knock out enough concrete out around them to make one hole. The blow out is going to make a mess, but it will be cut down significantly if you drill a 3/8 or 1/2 pilot hole and drill from both sides. And you can rent the drill and probably the bit. The bits are about $50 to buy if you can't rent.
Last edited:
I'd do what Nemo suggested. Use 1 1/8" if you want a little bigger hole. I haven't drilled the foam walls but I doubt there will be any blowout through them like with a solid 8" wall and you won't see it anyway because it'll be inside the finished wall. The bit will go right on through the drywall.
I used my harbor freight SDS max to go through my 8" basement wall last week with a 2" core for a minisplit lineset. I was kind of dreading it and figured I'd rig something up to help hold the drill, but once I started it went pretty quick so I just held it and took a few short breaks when popping out the core pieces. It took maybe 15 minutes and that's with a bit I bought used and have drilled dozens of holes. With a 1 or 1 1/8 bit it shouldn't take 10 minutes to drill both holes. It'll take longer to setup and put away the tools.
I used my harbor freight SDS max to go through my 8" basement wall last week with a 2" core for a minisplit lineset. I was kind of dreading it and figured I'd rig something up to help hold the drill, but once I started it went pretty quick so I just held it and took a few short breaks when popping out the core pieces. It took maybe 15 minutes and that's with a bit I bought used and have drilled dozens of holes. With a 1 or 1 1/8 bit it shouldn't take 10 minutes to drill both holes. It'll take longer to setup and put away the tools.
Sell the drill if you don't need it after, you'll recoup probably 60-80% of your money and that ends up cheaper than renting.
I don't see the point of joining the holes, two side by side is fine.
Also, the blow out even drilling through full size in one shot is minimal, maybe a half inch deep and an extra inch of circumference...it's inconsequential to the foundation and I doubt where the pipes are coming through the wall is going to be front and center where people look. Worst case, you need to seal things back up some, so some silicone caulk or parging or something can fill all that back in in the end.
From my old house, but you can see where I drilled through for the black gas pipe for my compressed air there:
Just using this Dewalt SDS and 1" bit:
OP
billconner
Well-known member
Would you rate a spline drive as good as SDS? My son has a corded Milwaukee spline drive with an assortment of bits. 3+ hour drive BUT it will allow us to see our first grandchild, a 5 week old boy. Seems like a worthy trade off - drive versus rent or purchase. Return at Thanksgiving.
(My son recommends his 4" core bit but he also has several masonry bits in the 1 to 2 inch range. 4" should make alignment with radiant baseboard and zone pump easier, working in cramped space behind boiler.)
(My son recommends his 4" core bit but he also has several masonry bits in the 1 to 2 inch range. 4" should make alignment with radiant baseboard and zone pump easier, working in cramped space behind boiler.)
sparky 1971
Well-known member
Spline drive is a big boy. About the same as SDS Max. Usually when someone mentions SDS, they are referring to SDS+. Big difference but every bit as good. It's just harder to get the bits.
Rusted Nut
Well-known member
Spline drive is a bit heavier duty/larger than SDS. If you’re going with a 2 1/2” core bit, you will have to anchor the core rig to to the concrete. Core bits also need water, and slurry clean up.
sparky 1971
Well-known member
Spline drive is a lot heavier than the standard SDS+, about the same as SDS Max. I have a smaller Milwaukees Thunderbolt spline and it's freaking heavy after a few minutes of coring. The Bosch SDS Max I have on order is going to weigh more but hits a lot harder so it should be faster. I hope.
There are dry core bits for rotary hammers and I think that's what this discussion is about. I have 1", 1-1/2, and 2" in SDS+ and 2-1/2 and 3-1/2" in spline. With a 5" SDS Max on the way.
OP
billconner
Well-known member
My son said he was buying spline bits for fear of them not being available in the future.
I thought I could cradle and strap it to a small dolly so have to use it. One 8" deep hole.
Thinking I can cut out a square of drywall, drill till I hit foam, then cut foam. Should avoid some mess. Spray foam and patch drywall after pipes are in.
But free is good and meeting grandchild will be fantastic.
I thought I could cradle and strap it to a small dolly so have to use it. One 8" deep hole.
Thinking I can cut out a square of drywall, drill till I hit foam, then cut foam. Should avoid some mess. Spray foam and patch drywall after pipes are in.
But free is good and meeting grandchild will be fantastic.
Retroman
Well-known member
Getting a 1" or 1.25" hole thru 8" of concrete is not that difficult. I know I drilled holes in concrete for 35 years. I am pretty sure any roto-hammer that will accept a bit of that size will get you thru there. Weather its SDS, SDS max, Spline. One may take a bit longer but your not in a hurry. Don't apply to much pressure let the drill hammer.
sparky 1971
Well-known member
If you're thinking a dolly similar to this, it would probably work as long as it's going to be a low hole. Just don't push too hard, the hammer needs to be able to move enough to hammer. Many moons ago when I thought I knew it all, I tried sitting on one to get it to go through a floor faster. It didn't work so well. When I just held it with one hand with no down pressure other than the weight of the drill, it worked like a champ.
24 in. x 16 in. 1000 lb. Capacity Solid Deck Hardwood Dolly with Carpet
Amazing deals on this 24In X 16In 1000Lb Solid Deck Dolly at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.
www.harborfreight.com
OP
billconner
Well-known member
About like that, home made.If you're thinking a dolly similar to this, it would probably work as long as it's going to be a low hole. Just don't push too hard, the hammer needs to be able to move enough to hammer. Many moons ago when I thought I knew it all, I tried sitting on one to get it to go through a floor faster. It didn't work so well. When I just held it with one hand with no down pressure other than the weight of the drill, it worked like a champ.
24 in. x 16 in. 1000 lb. Capacity Solid Deck Hardwood Dolly with Carpet
Amazing deals on this 24In X 16In 1000Lb Solid Deck Dolly at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.
Rusted Nut
Well-known member
From a safety perspective, I would urge you to reconsider this approach. Core drills have a lot of reverse torque effect and need to be firmly secured. This seems like a rather dangerous approach. The last thing you want is the bit binding up and the drill spinning around.
OP
billconner
Well-known member
As opposed to just holding it? I thought some of the weight being on the dolly helped improve the stability and control.
And I still might use the masonry bits. I think my son said he has 1 7/8".
sparky 1971
Well-known member
In my experience which is fairly limited, I've found the the drill binds up easier with a regular masonry bit than with a core bit. Modern drill have a clutch in them to reduce the kick back. My spline is old enough that it doesn't have that, but I come in at 300 pounds and have an ability to fight back. I did get caught off guard with a 1-3/8 standard bit, but the drill only got about 1/4 of the way around before I caught it. I don't remember ever having a kick back with a core bit.
Rusted Nut
Well-known member
You can hold a roto-hammer with a bit easily. If you’re using a core drill with a 2” core bit, I would bolt the drill to the wall.
OP
billconner
Well-known member
So much for consensus....
sparky 1971
Well-known member
How do you bolt a rotary hammer with a core bit in it to the wall? The topic isn't about a dedicated core drill that does bolt down. It's been about SDS+, SDS Max, and now spline drive, which it appears he's going to use.
Something like this
Milwaukee 1-9/16 In. Spline Rotary Hammer
Milwaukee 1-9/16 In. Spline Rotary Hammer - 5316-21
www.acmetools.com
with one of these in it
Bosch 4 in. x 22 in. Spline Carbide Rotary Hammer Core Bit with Wave Design for Masonry and Concrete Drilling HC8055 - The Home Depot
The Bosch 4 in. x 17 in. x 22 in. Spline Rotary Hammer Core Bit features integral shank for better power transmission. It offers less vibration and quieter operation. It comes with an efficient design
www.homedepot.com
Not one of these
VEVOR Diamond Core Drilling Machine, 10in Wet Concrete Core Drill Rig with Stand Wheels, 750RPM Speed & 1-1/4" Thread & Lifting Handle, 10in Drilling Diameter for Concrete Brick Block Stone, 2500W | VEVOR US
Discover VEVOR Diamond Core Drilling Machine, 10in Wet Concrete Core Drill Rig with Stand Wheels, 750RPM Speed & 1-1/4" Thread & Lifting Handle, 10in Drilling Diameter for Concrete Brick Block Stone, 2500W, 2500W Powerful Motor and Durable Construction at lowest price, 2days delivery, 30days...
www.vevor.com
OP
billconner
Well-known member
I appreciate your conviction but I think if you saw the conditions and constraints, you might agree larger holes or a single much larger hole would produce better results. The 1 7/8 bit might be the right answer. I did liked the idea of a much larger hole and being able to insulate the pipes.
OP
billconner
Well-known member
I think I understand your viewpoint, but I'm finding quite a few videos of core drilling walls, about split between bolted on and just hand held.
I didn't expect such widely varying by views.
Before I posted here I reached out to a local concrete contractor, who just got back to me. If the price is reasonable I'll have to consider it. Not too many times but once in a while there are not much savings in diy. Just found that with blowing cellulose. My material cost was quoted as nearly $900. Contracted for it - all materials included - at $1010.
My sincere appreciation for all the help offered here.
Show us some pictures then. I've done this a dozen times, it works great...even in tight areas.
Rusted Nut
Well-known member
You can’t bolt a roto-hammer. But if we’re talking a core drill with 2”+ bit, then IMO it needs to be bolted. Most core drill, not talking drills or roto-hammers, have a base which bolts to something.