Cornwell has a problem with their sockets

[Skyline]

I just got a tool collection with about a dozen sets of Cornwell sockets, all of which are fairly new, and have seen slight use.

A consistent problem I am seeing on these sets, is that it looks like the chrome plating does not extend to the inside. The insides are more of a flat finish. Where the flat and shiny surfaces meet, any socket that has seen even a little use is starting to show the beginnings of damage there. It would take 10 years of use and lots of abuse to do this to a Snap-on socket, and if you looked at these from the side...they look NEW. From the top...that's where the problem is. It's almost like the crome is too thin on the very end, and gets damaged VERY easily. This is the type of thing you would see on a cheap Japanese or Chineese socket.

While these are stamped made in the USA, I do not remember this type of problem in the past from Cornwell. They look MUCH more cheaply made now. Older Cornwell sets I have seen are really beautifully made. What the hell happened???

 

[Flash21]

Thanks for the information.

Can you supply some pictures so we know what to look for?

I wonder if Cornwell knows about the problem?

 

[06wt]

EPA is what happened, they changed the laws on chrome and how its applied, so now all chrome plating on all tools is less robust. i have this same problem with new snap-on stuff as well as other truck brands.

 

[Skyline]

Thanks for the information.

Can you supply some pictures so we know what to look for?

I wonder if Cornwell knows about the problem?

Here's a picture of a couple of 3/8" sockets. On the 1/4" I could not focus close enough to show, and due to their size, the area of damage was even smaller. But still there in a similar fashion.. I'm not sure you can even see it here on these 3/8". But at most of the hex points there is the beginning of pealing chrome along the top edge. I thought at first that maybe somone damaged these on an impact, but even the tiny 1/4" drive sockets have the same issue, and no one uses an impact on a 5mm socket. No to mention there are always telltale signs on the drive end that these do NOT have.

This is a set that if you looked at them from 90* you would think they were new. Yet the tops look like 20 years of use.

 

[Skyline]

EPA is what happened, they changed the laws on chrome and how its applied, so now all chrome plating on all tools is less robust. i have this same problem with new snap-on stuff as well as other truck brands.

I do realize that, and it's one reason you see the darker chrome on a lot of stuff these days. But these are sets were 3/4's of the sockets have never even been used at all, so the one's that have can not have been used much. Yet the detioration is quite rapid. I do NOT think this is consistant with other truck brands.

 

[Flash21]

I do realize that, and it's one reason you see the darker chrome on a lot of stuff these days. But these are sets were 3/4's of the sockets have never even been used at all, so the one's that have can not have been used much. Yet the detioration is quite rapid. I do NOT think this is consistant with other truck brands.

So what is your plan, out of curiosity? Fight for warranty on all the sets?

Or sell as is?

Did you notice this before buying the box? (I'm guessing the answer is no...)

 

[Flash21]

EPA is what happened, they changed the laws on chrome and how its applied, so now all chrome plating on all tools is less robust. i have this same problem with new snap-on stuff as well as other truck brands.

I would think if it isn't sufficiently robust then they are just opening themselves up to problems in the following years / decades handling warranties.

I, too, have noticed the darker chrome, especially on SO stuff. Proto still seems to be pretty bright, actually.

 

[Skyline]

So what is your plan, out of curiosity? Fight for warranty on all the sets?

Or sell as is?

Did you notice this before buying the box? (I'm guessing the answer is no...)

I will sell these as-is, but downgrade the condition accordingly. If this is what a Cornwell socket looks like after a year of use, so be it. Someone will still want it on eBay. I just thought you inquiring GJ minds would want to be aware of this.

As far as noticing this before I bought the collection, no I didn't, but it really is not that big a deal; these Cornwell sets only represent about 10% of the tools in this particular collection....tons of good stuff of all sorts of brands. OK, maybe it's only one ton, but still more than one full double bank.

 

[Flash21]

I will sell these as-is, but downgrade the condition accordingly. If this is what a Cornwell socket looks like after a year of use, so be it. Someone will still want it on eBay. I just thought you inquiring GJ minds would want to be aware of this.

As far as noticing this before I bought the collection, no I didn't, but it really is not that big a deal; these Cornwell sets only represent about 10% of the tools in this particular collection....tons of good stuff of all sorts of brands. OK, maybe it's only one ton, but still more than one full double bank.

Glad that it wasn't a deal breaker for you. Thanks again for the information.

 

[longroof63]

You may have a bad batch. I sell these sockets day in and day out and even the ones that have been abused (ie used on impact) don't look like that. Cornwell's warranty is one of the best in the business. Send them in and get them swapped.

 

[autoace]

You may have a bad batch. I sell these sockets day in and day out and even the ones that have been abused (ie used on impact) don't look like that. Cornwell's warranty is one of the best in the business. Send them in and get them swapped.

+1, have many sets of Cornwell sockets no problems. The inside of Cornwell sockets were never chrome plated, always satin. Any tool that sees no use, and is stored in very damp conditions can do that. look at all the flea market sockets of all brands, that need Evaporust all the time etc... Those may not be a new as you may think, they have looked the same for many years.

 

[autoace]

Here's a picture of a couple of 3/8" sockets. On the 1/4" I could not focus close enough to show, and due to their size, the area of damage was even smaller. But still there in a similar fashion.. I'm not sure you can even see it here on these 3/8". But at most of the hex points there is the beginning of pealing chrome along the top edge. I thought at first that maybe somone damaged these on an impact, but even the tiny 1/4" drive sockets have the same issue, and no one uses an impact on a 5mm socket. No to mention there are always telltale signs on the drive end that these do NOT have.

This is a set that if you looked at them from 90* you would think they were new. Yet the tops look like 20 years of use.

They don't look bad, they just look like they have been used alot, and sat around awhile. The inside of the socket is what deals with rusty bolts, etc. You guys that buy "almost not used" ok, tools, kill me, then whine like a little girl because they look USED, jeez. Buy jewelry if you want sparkle, or buy new if you want tools in unused condition. Those sockets look fine for used items. Wipe them off and use the damn things.

 

[krusty the clown]

the 8mm is worn out from an impact. i'd guess the other socket has been used on one as well. they are used sockets and fully guaranteed.

 

[volvo420coupe]

I have a set of metric semi-deep sockets that I have been unhappy with the chrome on, all you have to do is lightly tap on it and it gets a divot in the chrome, my 15mm looks worse after a few months than my craftsman does after 12 years of use.

 

[autoace]

the 8mm is worn out from an impact. i'd guess the other socket has been used on one as well. they are used sockets and fully guaranteed.

Now that you say it Krusty, I do see the distortion on the right one, Must have been put on an adaptor. Anyway used tools are just that, some are rode hard and put away wet, no telling what the last owner did to them.

 

[autoace]

I have a set of metric semi-deep sockets that I have been unhappy with the chrome on, all you have to do is lightly tap on it and it gets a divot in the chrome, my 15mm looks worse after a few months than my craftsman does after 12 years of use.

Were they 1/4 inch drive, I have a set of Cornwell 1/4 inch drive, mid-length, that the chrome does not seem as hardy on. I use them, they don't look bad, just lack the luster of my other 12 or so sets. Anyway, they are tools, provided they don't flake, I just use them. My Cornwell dealer said he would replace them if i wanted, but like I said, they get heavy use, and the chrome is not peeling, soo...............not really an issue for me. They have been tough, usually after some time, the 8,10,12,13 1/4 inch drive sockets show deforming on the broached end, these show no metal fatigue, just not as pretty, oh well. Cornwell does not have the stellar chrome beauty of some other brands, they are tough though.

 

[krusty the clown]

Now that you say it Krusty, I do see the distortion on the right one, Must have been put on an adaptor. Anyway used tools are just that, some are rode hard and put away wet, no telling what the last owner did to them.

i'm betting they belonged to a ****** guy who used a 3/8 impact to run valve body bolts...........

 

[cruiser808]

They don't look bad, they just look like they have been used alot, and sat around awhile. The inside of the socket is what deals with rusty bolts, etc. You guys that buy "almost not used" ok, tools, kill me, then whine like a little girl because they look USED, jeez. Buy jewelry if you want sparkle, or buy new if you want tools in unused condition. Those sockets look fine for used items. Wipe them off and use the damn things.

Well said.

 

[Skyline]

the 8mm is worn out from an impact. i'd guess the other socket has been used on one as well. they are used sockets and fully guaranteed.

I don't think so. You put a chrome socket on an impact, you will always see damage on the drive side, with a mushrooming around the corners.

 

[Skyline]

They don't look bad, they just look like they have been used alot, and sat around awhile. The inside of the socket is what deals with rusty bolts, etc. You guys that buy "almost not used" ok, tools, kill me, then whine like a little girl because they look USED, jeez. Buy jewelry if you want sparkle, or buy new if you want tools in unused condition. Those sockets look fine for used items. Wipe them off and use the damn things.

You guys should look at the pealing chrome at the corners of the hex points. THAT is what my issue is. These were just the most glaring example and one that I could photo so you guys could get an idea of what I was talking about.

When you see this type of pealing chrome at the corners of the hex on VERY lightly used 1/4 sockets, you KNOW the chance of it having been from an imapct are nil;(not these, but I really could not photograph them close enough for you guys to see, but it's exactly the same type of damage...even on sockets that look new compared to these.)

And as far as getting a bad set, I have eight sets here, all different; deep, shallow, metric, SAE, 1/4", 3/8", perhaps all bought at the same time, and they all have the same issues.

Sorry, but I sell 50 used Snap-on sets for every Cornwell set I sell, and the only time I see this type of damage with the S-O is when the outside of the socket is pretty much completely trashed as well. And I have older Cornwell sets here that are just as good, maybe better than Snap-on. Quailty is WAY off at Cornwell in terms of sockets.

 

[Merkava_4]

You guys that buy "almost not used" ok, tools, kill me, then whine like a little girl because they look USED, jeez.

LMAO!!

 

[longroof63]

I'm not going to get in a ******* contest with s/o over your used sockets, but I know we sell an outstanding product and the ones you took pictures of have been abused and/or neglected. Cornwell has been making PROFESSIONAL GRADE tools since 1919. They don't send anything out flawed on purpose. If you like s/o so much better, buy and sell them. You will not change my mind or my 300+ customers that Cornwell has a bad product. Take my word for it, Cornwell only sells TOP SHELF items..PERIOD. Otherwise I would not be pushing their product the way I do.

 

[Merkava_4]

I'll vouch for that. The few Cornwell wrenches I have are my favorites. Snap-on wrenches are nice too, but I'd suggest they put the ownership of Bonny's patents to work for them and integrate the Bonney beam profile into their wrenches. As it stands now, Cornwell has the most comfortable wrenches.

 

[volvo420coupe]

I have no doubt that Cornwell sells lots of quality products, but the one set I bought off the truck brand new has convinced me to not consider any chrome socket purchases from them in the future, of course I haven't had a dealer since a couple of weeks after I purchased the sockets, so I haven't given them a chance to change my mind either.

I will try to post some pictures tomorrow.

 

[Skyline]

I'm not going to get in a ******* contest with s/o over your used sockets, but I know we sell an outstanding product and the ones you took pictures of have been abused and/or neglected. Cornwell has been making PROFESSIONAL GRADE tools since 1919. They don't send anything out flawed on purpose. If you like s/o so much better, buy and sell them. You will not change my mind or my 300+ customers that Cornwell has a bad product. Take my word for it, Cornwell only sells TOP SHELF items..PERIOD. Otherwise I would not be pushing their product the way I do.

Look, you've obviously got an axe to grind, or have been drinking the kool aid too long. Keep in mind that I have NONE. I don't work for any tool company, I'm just trying to point out my personal observations, and I stand by them. I agree that the two sockets pictured have seen some good use. I just wanted to point out the TYPE of damage I was seeing on even virtually unused sockets. OK, here's another picture:

Now I'm sure you'll agree that this 1/4" drive deep socket has not been abused in any way. I've never heard of a tech putting a 1/4" deep 7/32" socket on an impact gun...have you? It's in very good condition, it looks like it's only been used a couple of times. Of the set it was in, only three of the sockets looked like they had ever seen use, so that probably means this one has not been used much. But the point is, that it has EXACTLY the same type of chipping chrome around the top as the ones previously pictured. The big mark of rust inside is not my concern, that was left by some fastener. But is you look at the back edge at the hex point that dark spot is missing chrome. And there are spots all around the edge that are missing chrome as well; that one spot is just the most visible in this picture. Now this is a tiny socket, so my camera couldn't really macro in far enough for you to see all of what I'm talking about, but the damage is there. And dozens of these Cornwells seem to be like this.

My only point here is that it seems to me that Cornwell's socket quality has gone down. I have old Cornwell sockets here that look like someone played soccer with them on a concrete floor...but no pealing chrome. I am not wining about the condition of these, nor am I that fussy that I would not use these if they were part of my own toolbox; they'd be 100% functional. But when chrome comes off any tool it starts a downhill slide to an early demise. My own garage is not the dryest in the world, and rust does happen to unprotected steel.

While I might be able to get these warranteed, that's not the point. Lots of us look for good used tool bargains. Older Cornwell stuff was really nice, some of the nicest tools made. I have had and sold some really nice sets; I never saw issues like this before these. But now it worries me that if you loose or break a socket from an old set, the replacement is going to be this stuff. Maybe this is EPA restrictions screwing with their chrome process, who knows. But their competitors do not seem to have been effected as much.

 

[forceyoda]

So you bought some used sockets and find rust in them and assume it is because of a manufacturing defect?

Unless you are 100% certain how they have been used there is no way you can definitively say it is a manufacturing problem. There are plenty of rusty sockets from all brands for sale online right now including the mighty snap on. It does not mean that they were not made correctly but in most cases they were abused by the previous owner.

 

[Vinko]

EPA is what happened, they changed the laws on chrome and how its applied, so now all chrome plating on all tools is less robust. i have this same problem with new snap-on stuff as well as other truck brands.

My understanding(incomplete no doubt) from talking to good chrome platers is that alot of the old chroming methods are still in use, it's just that the regulations and expense has gone way up. I'm going to make some calls on Monday though, because I'm curious if any ingredient in the process is unavailable nowadays.

 

[autoace]

Look, you've obviously got an axe to grind, or have been drinking the kool aid too long. Keep in mind that I have NONE. I don't work for any tool company, I'm just trying to point out my personal observations, and I stand by them. I agree that the two sockets pictured have seen some good use. I just wanted to point out the TYPE of damage I was seeing on even virtually unused sockets. OK, here's another picture:

Now I'm sure you'll agree that this 1/4" drive deep socket has not been abused in any way. I've never heard of a tech putting a 1/4" deep 7/32" socket on an impact gun...have you? It's in very good condition, it looks like it's only been used a couple of times. Of the set it was in, only three of the sockets looked like they had ever seen use, so that probably means this one has not been used much. But the point is, that it has EXACTLY the same type of chipping chrome around the top as the ones previously pictured. The big mark of rust inside is not my concern, that was left by some fastener. But is you look at the back edge at the hex point that dark spot is missing chrome. And there are spots all around the edge that are missing chrome as well; that one spot is just the most visible in this picture. Now this is a tiny socket, so my camera couldn't really macro in far enough for you to see all of what I'm talking about, but the damage is there. And dozens of these Cornwells seem to be like this.

My only point here is that it seems to me that Cornwell's socket quality has gone down. I have old Cornwell sockets here that look like someone played soccer with them on a concrete floor...but no pealing chrome. I am not wining about the condition of these, nor am I that fussy that I would not use these if they were part of my own toolbox; they'd be 100% functional. But when chrome comes off any tool it starts a downhill slide to an early demise. My own garage is not the dryest in the world, and rust does happen to unprotected steel.

While I might be able to get these warranteed, that's not the point. Lots of us look for good used tool bargains. Older Cornwell stuff was really nice, some of the nicest tools made. I have had and sold some really nice sets; I never saw issues like this before these. But now it worries me that if you loose or break a socket from an old set, the replacement is going to be this stuff. Maybe this is EPA restrictions screwing with their chrome process, who knows. But their competitors do not seem to have been effected as much.

That little tiny chrome chip? Geez, a hit 1/4 inch drive sockets onto old rusty hose clamps all the time, I tap the extension holding the socket with a dead blow hammer. Chips happen, I have some Cornwell wrenches with light scratches in the chrome, maybe I should warranty them because they don't look brand new. Some of you guys kill me.

 

[Merkava_4]

I might have to buy me a nice new Cornwell socket as a sample. Hmm... I wonder which size I should get.

 

[Fedwrench]

Here we are 30 posts into this thread and we're worried about chrome peel on the edge of the socket's nose? Do these sockets fit fasteners correctly? Tools are meant to be used and are going to get scratched, nicked, and banged up. Are you buying tools to use or as an investment to flip?
Personally, the only problem I have with Cornwell chrome sockets is that, they don't have a scalloped area on each side of the square drive end. They only have that old school hole on one side for the drive tool detent ball.
Perhaps you should write Cornwell directly about your quality concerns.

 

[Zrexxer]

My understanding(incomplete no doubt) from talking to good chrome platers is that alot of the old chroming methods are still in use, it's just that the regulations and expense has gone way up.

No, you're absolutely correct, this is just parroting back rumors that aren't true, I hear it all the time. I've worked for the second largest environmental regulatory agency in the world for 18 years and used to work closely with plating wastewater issues. Neither EPA or any other agency has any authority whatsoever to change "how chrome is applied." They have authority only to regulate the wastes generated from that process and how they're disposed of or recycled.

If you need someone to blame for substandard chrome plating these days, blame the manufacturers who are cutting corners to cut cost.

 

[Flash21]

No, you're absolutely correct, this is just parroting back rumors that aren't true, I hear it all the time. I've worked for the second largest environmental regulatory agency in the world for 18 years and used to work closely with plating wastewater issues. Neither EPA or any other agency has any authority whatsoever to change "how chrome is applied." They have authority only to regulate the wastes generated from that process and how they're disposed of or recycled.

If you need someone to blame for substandard chrome plating these days, blame the manufacturers who are cutting corners to cut cost.

Thanks for your post, that definetely clears up some myths that I've heard.

 

[Skyline]

That little tiny chrome chip? Geez, a hit 1/4 inch drive sockets onto old rusty hose clamps all the time, I tap the extension holding the socket with a dead blow hammer. Chips happen, I have some Cornwell wrenches with light scratches in the chrome, maybe I should warranty them because they don't look brand new. Some of you guys kill me.

I was not concerned about one little chrome chip. That particular socket has little chips all around the edge. My concern is that this appeared to be a pattern, seen across many different sets. Even on sockets that look almost new. I own SK sockets that I've had for 30+ years, which have large bald spots in the chrome on the outside from use, that do not exhibit any chipping around the nose. Sure these Cornwells are usable.

Due to having sold and handled hundreds of used socket sets of all brands in the last couple of years this was a surprise to me. I don't come across a lot of Cornwell stuff, and up to now, it's appeared first rate. The only other sets I have seen that have thus type of issue are made in China or Japan and I usually trash. Sure I have seen sockets from every major truck brand that are chipped and sometimes rusted. But what I am trying to explain is chipping inconsistant with the overall condition. This is the newest Cornwell stuff I've had.

 

[volvo420coupe]

Personally, the only problem I have with Cornwell chrome sockets is that, they don't have a scalloped area on each side of the square drive end. They only have that old school hole on one side for the drive tool detent ball.

That feature kind of irritated me on my Cornwell sockets also, way to cheap out good ole USA manufacturers, or maybe they MEANT for us to use these sockets for impact use too, the only place I have seen a hole drilled through instead of a detent recess is on impact sockets.

 

[longroof63]

Best advice I can give you is:
1) If the sockets work correctly, grab the bolt or nut correctly, use them.
or
2) If the rust bothers you, send them in a get a brand new one.
We warranty sockets if the chrome is peeling. Why would that be? Because Cornwell stands behind their chroming process.