We are getting ready to put up another shelf in our laundry room and need a recommendation on what size nails to use to nail the 1"x2" strips of wood to the wall that supports the shelf. We want to keep the look the same as the shelf that is already in there. The shelf will be about 8'x1'. Would 16 gauge finish nails be strong enough for the 1"x2" pieces if I put 2 nails per stud or should I go to 15 gauge?
Correct nail size for shelving
- Thread starter skon1212
- Start date
finn
Well-known member
Tiny head Torx cabinet/ trim screws.
They take a T-10 bit.
They take a T-10 bit.
bob15
Well-known member
I would rather see you use screws and not finish nails. Screws would work better and have a much harder time pulling out over nails.
JR 42
Well-known member
Are you using the 1x2's to support a loose shelf board on three sides?
If so, I'd use finish or casing nails, not trim screws - nails are stronger in shear. Trim screws would be a poor choice.
JR
If so, I'd use finish or casing nails, not trim screws - nails are stronger in shear. Trim screws would be a poor choice.
JR
matt_i
Well-known member
I'd say torx drive #9 deck screws would be your bulletproof solution. A 3" screw per stud would be great plus be useful for other projects down the road.
Nails are OK but they can split and compromise the piece inside or outside the wall.
Nails are OK but they can split and compromise the piece inside or outside the wall.
Yes. That is the way the current shelf is installed and supported. Trying to avoid screws if possible.
finn
Well-known member
The little engineered Torx trim screws have a pretty small head that should disappear with some putty.
They are stringer than a finishing nail and are unlikely to pull out.
They are stringer than a finishing nail and are unlikely to pull out.
Firebrick43
Well-known member
Why do half truths and myths like this persist?
While it's true that nails have better shear strength than say drywall screws or old style wood screws, the only screws available 30+years ago, this is not true with the wide array of construction screws available today. GRK, Spax, Simpson strong tie, and others make screws that far exceed the strength, both in shear and tension compared to common construction nails, let alone casing or finish nails.
However in this application nails would be fine. I would probably use some maize splitless ring shank siding nails if it were me as they have a long thin shank that won't pull out and unlikely to split the wood.
James-W
Well-known member
Another vote for using screws.
Stuart in MN
Well-known member
It's a simple shelf. It's going in a laundry room, so I doubt the original poster is going to be storing their anvil collection on it. Nails will be fine.
James-W
Well-known member
I use screws quite a bit, even where a nail would suffice. I like using screws because if at some point in the future I need to take it apart, it is a relatively simple process.
JR 42
Well-known member
Er, what? Nobody except the Torx deck screw guy recommended using normal screws let alone drywall screws, just pissy little trim screws. They're great for a lot of things, I use them, but they just don't seem suited to this application.
He's talking about fastening a 1x2 to three (one long, two short) sides of a rectangle and dropping a plank on top of it, then loading the plank. Can you supply data demonstrating that tiny narrow- diameter trim screws (as suggested by other folks before me) will be better in this application than wire nails? I'm not trying to be pissy, it's been a long day... I'd love to see some data to support your point... I'm not an engineer and could stand to learn something.
JR
LeeG
Well-known member
Here is some tech data on the GRK construction fasteners.
http://www.icc-es.org/Reports/pdf_files/ESR-3201.pdf
Here is the standard for nails.
http://www.icc-es.org/reports/pdf_files/ESR-1539.pdf
From what I see, the allowable steel strengh in shear for the #8 GRK trim screws is 360ibf and for .113 diameter nails it is 70ibf.
I am by no means an engineer, and may be reading the wrong charts or not comparing like to like, but from what I have gathered, the main problem with the construction screws is that the cheap, import ones are not nearly as good as the GRK and SPAX type.
http://www.icc-es.org/Reports/pdf_files/ESR-3201.pdf
Here is the standard for nails.
http://www.icc-es.org/reports/pdf_files/ESR-1539.pdf
From what I see, the allowable steel strengh in shear for the #8 GRK trim screws is 360ibf and for .113 diameter nails it is 70ibf.
I am by no means an engineer, and may be reading the wrong charts or not comparing like to like, but from what I have gathered, the main problem with the construction screws is that the cheap, import ones are not nearly as good as the GRK and SPAX type.
Firebrick43
Well-known member
First, I was very specific in what I would use near the bottom of my original post and it was a maize branded nail. I have no disagreement as to the suitability of nails in this application.
My comments about half truths was in response to your statement that nails have higher shear strength than screws. My comments about drywall screws and old style wood screws were not in response to the OP situation but to the superiority of nails in shear as you stated.
From an engineering standpoint shear strength is moot anyways as lateral resistance would be the force at play. Basically friction between the board and the substrate attached to
Page 6 of this report shows that even old style wood screws had the advantage by nearly double over nails. Upper right corner.
https://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr/fplgtr190/chapter_08.pdf
As far a shear strength of modern "super screws" as my neighbor refers to them
https://www.grkfasteners.com/Portals/0/documents/sellSheets/fintrim.pdf
A 16d common nail which is .050 larger in diameter(162") has a shear strength of -135lbs depending on the report.
Above GRK screw is 380lbs plus depending on engagement. (.116" diameter shank)
For an old style #8 wood screw with a .164" shank was only 108lbs so yes the old style screws were weaker than nails
I purposely used 16p sized nailed not finish nails to show the discrepancy of strength.
Video for visual learners.
Last edited:
finn
Well-known member
So three of the number 8/T10 trim screws will hold a 700 lb shelf in shear and 1100 lb tensile.
That’s a lot of bleach and detergent.
If you need nails, I have boxes and boxes of them. Even my grandkids will never use them.
That’s a lot of bleach and detergent.
If you need nails, I have boxes and boxes of them. Even my grandkids will never use them.
6768rogues
Banned
I would use screws, and not simply because of their strength. I don't like to pound on walls or shoot fasteners into walls if I don't have to, because it is a good way to crack corners, have the fastener go too deep or f-up things on the other side of the wall. Screws carefully snugged down are more controllable. Also, because of their increased pull out resistance as compared to nails, screws can be shorter. A shorter fastener has less likelihood of hitting a wire or pipe buried in the wall.
finn
Well-known member
Exactly. The thread got derailed, as most do.
Toomanytools?
Well-known member
I think the OP left the site...it's really not that technical of a question.
Would 16 gauge finish nails be strong enough for the 1"x2" pieces if I put 2 nails per stud or should I go to 15 gauge? If he is asking about nails let's stay on track and answer about nails, specifically 15 or 16 gauge. If we get into screws then we have to assume he has some way to put those screws in. Should he predrill or use an impact driver and what brand Bosch, Makita, DeWalt? Then there will be a debate on what brand is better and has higher torque ratings and battery life it will be endless.
Now the question is does he have a hammer or is he planning on using an airgun?
Hopefully he has moved on down the honey-do list by now.
To answer the question I believe you will be fine with either 2 nails/stud of 15 or 16 gauge nails. If not then it will fall off the wall. Now let's get into the shelving material is it 3/4" plywood or particleboard and what is the span going to be ...where is that span table??
Would 16 gauge finish nails be strong enough for the 1"x2" pieces if I put 2 nails per stud or should I go to 15 gauge? If he is asking about nails let's stay on track and answer about nails, specifically 15 or 16 gauge. If we get into screws then we have to assume he has some way to put those screws in. Should he predrill or use an impact driver and what brand Bosch, Makita, DeWalt? Then there will be a debate on what brand is better and has higher torque ratings and battery life it will be endless.
Now the question is does he have a hammer or is he planning on using an airgun?
Hopefully he has moved on down the honey-do list by now.
To answer the question I believe you will be fine with either 2 nails/stud of 15 or 16 gauge nails. If not then it will fall off the wall. Now let's get into the shelving material is it 3/4" plywood or particleboard and what is the span going to be ...where is that span table??
JR 42
Well-known member
Huh, how about that! 
Thank you to LeeG and Firebrick43 for your detailed replies and links. I'm still working my way through the ICC and FPL docs and a couple others I found online... off to buy some better- quality trim screws.
JR
Thank you to LeeG and Firebrick43 for your detailed replies and links. I'm still working my way through the ICC and FPL docs and a couple others I found online... off to buy some better- quality trim screws.JR